Does Lebron have sole claim to his own era?

[Marc Spector]

Just like MJ would have won 8 straight if he didn’t retire in 1993 You just named things that happened during Jordan’s dominance but out of his control, thanks for the history lesson I guess

my point is to demystify how you talked about jordan. Jordan had “no natural predators” because the state of the NBA and professional bball was in a favorable state for he and the bulls to succeed. Let yall tell it, Jordan was beating the NBA so bad that whole franchises were too broken to even compete

 

[fifth column]

my point is to demystify how you talked about jordan. Jordan had “no natural predators” because the state of the NBA and professional bball was in a favorable state for he and the bulls to succeed. Let yall tell it, Jordan was beating the NBA so bad that whole franchises were too broken to even compete

If it was favorable for the Bulls then why wasn’t it favorable for other teams? Was it not still 5 on 5 basketball? Why only MJ was able to take advantage of the state of the NBA? What I don’t get about y’all MJ deniers is that y’all could look up the stats/accolades and go watch the games to figure out why MJ is MJ but y’all choose not to.

 

[Biscayne]

Kobe and Duncan retired when Bron was in his 30s after his 3rd championship. Kobe and Duncan were also on contending teams when Bron won his first championship, it's not like they were on some Jordan on the Wizards shyt. They were still regarded as premier players until 2014. Hell, Bron's 15th season he faced the Warriors in the finals and nobody acts like he was some old geezer losing to prime superstars.

Kareem retired in 1989 and Magic played in one season in the 1990s. They were not relevant in that era.

You contradict yourself by highlighting that Kobe and Timmy D were still relevant and both were playing on title contending teams when LeBron won his 1st two, but then you say Magic was washed up and irrelevant by the time Jordan won his first. As if Jordan didn’t beat Magic Johnson in the damn NBA FINALS!

How is it that magic in the NBA finals in 1991 was irrelevant, but Timmy D and Kobe were still relevant for Brons title runs? Isaiah Thomas and those pistons were only 1yr removed from a title. They were “washed up” when Jordan beat them too?

Magic was in the same realm and stage of his career as Timmy D/Kobe in 2012-2014 were when LeBron was a Heatle.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You contradict yourself by highlighting that Kobe and Timmy D were still relevant and both were playing on title contending teams when LeBron won his 1st two, but then you say Magic was washed up and irrelevant by the time Jordan won his first. As if Jordan didn’t beat Magic Johnson in the damn NBA FINALS!

How is it that magic in the NBA finals in 1991 was irrelevant, but Timmy D and Kobe were still relevant for Brons title runs? Isaiah Thomas and those pistons were only 1yr removed from a title. They were “washed up” when Jordan beat them too?

Magic was in the same realm and stage of his career as Timmy D/Kobe in 2012-2014 were when LeBron was a Heatle.

He said Magic played just one year of MJ's run, which is true. How did you waste three paragraphs on that?

Magic was relevant in 1991, then Worthy/Scott both got hurt for the Finals and his relatively thin team was screwed. Then her got AIDS and wasn't even around for the rest of MJ's titles.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

If it was favorable for the Bulls then why wasn’t it favorable for other teams?

Because the thinner the talent is, the easier it is for the best player to come out on top. When there's a ton of available talent concentrated on a few teams, a GOAT can be overcome by a more talented team, but when talent had been thinned out across the league that's less likely to happen.

Jordan was the best player and had the best sidekick (not to mention best coach and deepest team). There weren't any other great stacked teams like the 80s Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, or the 00s Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, or the 10s Heat, Spurs, Warriors, who had the depth to overcome the best player with a great cast. That's the result of expansion.

 

[TEH]

I usually do it by decade on who ruled the league with Chips and MVPs.

60s - Russell and Wilt
70s - Kareem & Cocaine
80s - Magic and Bird
90s - Jordan and Hakeem with an honorable mention
2000s - Shaq, Duncan & Kobe
10s - Lebron & Steph
20s - Jokic & Giannis?

There’s a case for MJ and Kareem to be honorable mentions in the 80s, plus Duncan one one in the 90s and 10s, and Lebron and Steph both got one in the 20s, but it works out pretty cleanly like this imo. Taking out Jokic and Giannis, that’s my top 12.

Of course the most reasonable post gets hardly any daps. This place is infested with meat riders pause.

 

[Marc Spector]

If it was favorable for the Bulls then why wasn’t it favorable for other teams? Was it not still 5 on 5 basketball? Why only MJ was able to take advantage of the state of the NBA? What I don’t get about y’all MJ deniers is that y’all could look up the stats/accolades and go watch the games to figure out why MJ is MJ but y’all choose not to.

I’m not denying anything. I’ve said it here before I think Jordan is the goat but imo he has not been the best basketball player ever in about 20 years. In my opinion, Lebron is the best basketball player to ever live. Hell you could argue even longer than that because it’s arguable Kobe Bryant was better at basketball than Mike.
I say all that to say my biggest criticism of Jordan stans is the mythologizing of his career.

It’s not enough to say he is the most individually decorated player of all time, it has to be some weird fixation with him “dominating/denying” other teams as if Jordan won the championship every year he was in the NBA.

And even Jordan with championships is not the greatest winner of all time in the NBA is the funniest part

to bring it all full circle , I’m going to answer your questions. Other teams did win during the bulls dominance first off, but when the bulls did win it’s because they had the best and most sustainable combination of players, coaches, and front office. Jordan himself did not start winning until that part of the puzzle became solidified.

This winning shyt is not hard to figure out. Jordan and the bulls did nothing special compared to any other NBA dynasty. He just did it in the most memorable way (alot of it due to marketing )in the post modern explosion of the NBA.

 

[fifth column]

I’m not denying anything. I’ve said it here before I think Jordan is the goat but imo he has not been the best basketball player ever in about 20 years. In my opinion, Lebron is the best basketball player to ever live. Hell you could argue even longer than that because it’s arguable Kobe Bryant was better at basketball than Mike.
I say all that to say my biggest criticism of Jordan stans is the mythologizing of his career.

It’s not enough to say he is the most individually decorated player of all time, it has to be some weird fixation with him “dominating/denying” other teams as if Jordan won the championship every year he was in the NBA.

And even Jordan with championships is not the greatest winner of all time in the NBA is the funniest part

to bring it all full circle , I’m going to answer your questions. Other teams did win during the bulls dominance first off, but when the bulls did win it’s because they had the best and most sustainable combination of players, coaches, and front office. Jordan himself did not start winning until that part of the puzzle became solidified.

This winning shyt is not hard to figure out. Jordan and the bulls did nothing special compared to any other NBA dynasty. He just did it in the most memorable way (alot of it due to marketing )in the post modern explosion of the NBA.

So you think MJ is the goat but Lebron is the best to ever live and Kobe was better, make it make sense, you kinda all over the place. Which part of MJ career was the mythology and which part was the marketing? MJ was MJ before Phil and Pippen so he’s the main reason why they had dynasty. Every winning team need a combination of things to win so not sure where you going with that

 

[Don Homer]

That's because of Bron. Bron left the next year and they won 19 games.


From 1999 to 2021, in the twelve seasons the Cavs played without Lebron, they averaged 24 wins a year. They NEVER made the playoffs and they NEVER won more than 33 games in a season. How the fukk is that not incompetence?

Bron was the ONLY person that left?

 

[fifth column]

Because the thinner the talent is, the easier it is for the best player to come out on top. When there's a ton of available talent concentrated on a few teams, a GOAT can be overcome by a more talented team, but when talent had been thinned out across the league that's less likely to happen.

Jordan was the best player and had the best sidekick (not to mention best coach and deepest team). There weren't any other great stacked teams like the 80s Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Pistons, or the 00s Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, or the 10s Heat, Spurs, Warriors, who had the depth to overcome the best player with a great cast. That's the result of expansion.

So if MJ played in this era and build super teams and had an usually favorable circumstance like the bubble how many chips would he win? Imagine if MJ bounced on the Bulls and joined up with Magic after losing to the bad boy Pistons for the 3rd time in a row in the playoffs, how many rings would he win then?

 

[Don Homer]

What was powerful about that Propaganda from that Lebron sycophant? You wanna know what else happened in the “so called” Bron era 2007-2020, Duncan won 2 rings, KD won 2 rings, Kawhi won 2 rings, Kobe went to the finals 3 years in a row and won 2 rings, Kobe had to teach Bron and em how to win gold in Olympic games 2x, Steph won 4 rings and built a dynasty off Lebron’s back, Steph also changed the way the game is played in Bron’s era. What an era

Cooked his ass

 

[fifth column]

He said Magic played just one year of MJ's run, which is true. How did you waste three paragraphs on that?

Magic was relevant in 1991, then Worthy/Scott both got hurt for the Finals and his relatively thin team was screwed. Then her got AIDS and wasn't even around for the rest of MJ's titles.

Magic didn’t get AIDS

 

[Don Homer]

Bron stans reeeeeally changing people's minds

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

He has a claim for the most extra steps.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Bron was the ONLY person that left?

All of top-5 minutes guys other than Bron returned the next year (Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Anderson Varejao, and Anthony Parker), as did some of the main bench guys - JJ Hickson, Boobie Gibson, and Jamario Moon. The only ones who left were 40yo Shaq and crazy ass Delonte, but I don't think they were helping at that point anyway. They picked up Ramon Sessions and Baron David, but Davis missed most of the season.

Very next season they added Kyrie to the team, who was a mile better than anyone not named Bron, and still averaged just 27 wins/season the next three years.

So yeah, they were a demonstrably shyt organization.

So if MJ played in this era and build super teams and had an usually favorable circumstance like the bubble how many chips would he win? Imagine if MJ bounced on the Bulls and joined up with Magic after losing to the bad boy Pistons for the 3rd time in a row in the playoffs, how many rings would he win then?

That's a fantastic example, MJ would win fewer titles with that Lakers squad than he did with the Bulls. And that's despite the fact that Jordan works be joining a pre-made title contender with zero cap side to actually sign him. Were you trying to help my case?

Should have just asked "How many would MJ win with Bron's squads?" And I think the most likely answer is 3, though either 2 or 4 are possible.



lol at the bubble being "favorable circumstances".

Here's a better question for you - if MJ's #2 or #3 had gotten hurt in 10 of his runs like Bron's did, how many titles does he win? Underappreciated fact is that MJ had an almost perfectly healthy top-8 for all six titles - Luc Longley's 3 missed games in '98 were the closest he came to not having everyone from the regular rotation on the court, and otherwise Pippen in '98 was the only time he had a major contributor in poor shape. Whereas from 2011-2023, I think the ONLY time Bron got through the playoffs with an intact, healthy rotation was 2017, and that unfortunately was the most meaningless season to pick to do that.