FrederickDouglas
All Star
Trust something the Joker (a character who lies in probably EVERY scene in the movie) says, brehs 
Does anyone else see this as a flaw in The Dark Knight?
- Thread starter Kill Dat Noize
- Start date
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
He's not lying.Trust something the Joker (a character who lies in probably EVERY scene in the movie) says, brehs
When Batman hurls him off the building he's laughing hysterically because he got Batman to break his rule (or so he thought).
That character was driven by his need to prove something to Batman, whatever that was.
what you're trying to nitpick at is the movie staying true to the characters & their relationships, that's why people that know the characters dont see it as a 'flaw'....to explain: the joker doesn't want to kill batman, never has....he wants to beat him by proving batman isnt as good as he says, that he's as fukked up as himself, and to do that, he has to make batman break his only rule which is no killing...that's the only way he can 'get rid' of batman...if he kills him, he doesn't get rid of the legend of batman nor what batman stands for.....in fact, killing him would only intensify those things and make bats a martyr....anyway, batman knows this, that's why he never kills the joker...he beats the shyt outta him, breaks bones, etc., but he never crosses the line of killing him because he thinks he's a morally 'better' person than joker and other criminals; plus he knows if he did, the joker wins, which is something he doesn't want to happen...that's why despite all the shyt the joker has done to batman/his peeps/innocents, batman hasn't just offed him...to go deeper: they are each other's yin/yang....joker keeps pushing to see how far he can go to get bats to kills him; and bats uses the joker to test his rule/self control...something the movie shows in an excellent fashion...
also, just cause joker doesn't want to kill bats doesn't make him any less dangerous....to test bats, he does fukked up shyt to everyone else, especially those close to bats, that's what makes him dangerous....it means everyone and everything besides bats is a potential victim....exs: killed a robin; shot, sexually assaulted, and paralyzed batgirl while taking pics of it; killed plenty of innocents in his 'schemes' to get at bats
also, just cause joker doesn't want to kill bats doesn't make him any less dangerous....to test bats, he does fukked up shyt to everyone else, especially those close to bats, that's what makes him dangerous....it means everyone and everything besides bats is a potential victim....exs: killed a robin; shot, sexually assaulted, and paralyzed batgirl while taking pics of it; killed plenty of innocents in his 'schemes' to get at bats
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
you would probably need to ignore a large majority of batman history in order for this to be true. joker has been trying to kill batman since their very first meeting in batman #1. you reference killing joke and yet you conveniently ignore the parts in that book where joker is SHOOTING at him and trying to STAB him.
i'm sure the character has evolved over the years, and it makes sense that after years and years of being each other's rivals that their relationship would take a bizarre yet more personal turn... but a joker that doesn't wish to see batman dead? that sounds perverse to me and another example of trying to fix what isn't broken.
and in the context of TDK, results in the movie having much lower stakes.
Here Comes the Pain
Superstar
I think it's alright. The Joker would probably have more satisfaction from Batman failing to rescue Gotham than actually killing him. 
It's a slow burn when a superhero fails to save the day.
It's a slow burn when a superhero fails to save the day.
MenacingMonk
Tranquilo
That's really a flaw, in your eyes? 
Bats is a protector of good. Why would he want to kill him since he gets his kicks by making shyt worse for Batman?
1 star thread
Bats is a protector of good. Why would he want to kill him since he gets his kicks by making shyt worse for Batman?
1 star thread
The problem with the "clown prince of crime" angle is that it makes the joker a typical villian. With this angle he is the most deranged villian in comics.
Spaceman Piff
Superstar
didn't affect me either way.
the movie painted him out to be a psychopath different from other villains. this was just another way of illustrating that point.
it's not like he wasn't ready to kill. he was willing to kill everybody else in order to fukk with the batman. that's fine with me
i wouldn't have minded if joker was out to murk him either
outside of the movie, this just seems to be their dynamic, no? batman's not trying to kill the joker either.. for whatever reason
the movie painted him out to be a psychopath different from other villains. this was just another way of illustrating that point.
it's not like he wasn't ready to kill. he was willing to kill everybody else in order to fukk with the batman. that's fine with me
i wouldn't have minded if joker was out to murk him either
outside of the movie, this just seems to be their dynamic, no? batman's not trying to kill the joker either.. for whatever reason
Ironman
#Knickstape
@Kill Dat Noize you ever read Emperor Joker? Joker had infinite power but admitted he couldn't permanently kill Batman because he needs him to exist as his opposite. The movie was fine in that regard as that is exactly who Joker is. He enjoys tormenting Batman as much as Batman needs criminals to be Batman. Jokers beat a young Robin to death with a crowbar and blew him up, Crippled Batgirl, murdered countless men, women, and children, drove Commissioner Gordon insane, just because it would drive Batman insane. He wants to break Batmans will and his moral code.
TheGodling
Los Ingobernables de Sala de Cine
Enough reasons have been given to close this debate, but let me add this:
Just because Joker won't kill Batman doesn't mean he can't make him suffer. And that is why it doesn't matter that Bats is safe from dying at the hands of the villain, because death is not the only defeat.
Just because Joker won't kill Batman doesn't mean he can't make him suffer. And that is why it doesn't matter that Bats is safe from dying at the hands of the villain, because death is not the only defeat.
didn't affect me either way.
the movie painted him out to be a psychopath different from other villains. this was just another way of illustrating that point.
it's not like he wasn't ready to kill. he was willing to kill everybody else in order to fukk with the batman. that's fine with me
i wouldn't have minded if joker was out to murk him either
outside of the movie, this just seems to be their dynamic, no? batman's not trying to kill the joker either.. for whatever reason
Batman won't kill him because of his morals and code and a "sense of self righteousness" while Joker just likes to fukk with him and torture him and make his life a living hell.
Yeah this I totally disagree with. The stakes are high in the movie. There's the threat to the judges and the police, the threat to Rachel and Dent, the threat to the regular citizens and the inmates, not to mention Gordon's family, his son specifically. This is a movie where a kid was held at gunpoint. And regarding Batman, like I said, the cops could get him, or the mob, or two face but his death never seemed to be a stake the movie was playing with. At least not physically. The movie tore him down emotionally and mentally so the stakes come from basically tearing its hero down and putting him through the ringer. Like I said, the man lost everything in this movie minus his wealth. Shyt, he even lost the the identity of batman as we found out, all for the greater good.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
So again I ask what's Joker's true purpose... is he an agent of chaos hell bent on causing random destruction or is he just a loon that's obsessed with Batman and exists only to make him mad.
Not saying both versions don't work, just that the latter is a lot less scary.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
He tries to kill Batman more than once in The Killing Joke...
