Do you believe that Christianity is needed for society to function at peak levels?

WIA20XX

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Gotta define peak levels.

Going by my own definition of "peak" - the answer is no.

The answer is obviously not Islam, Judaism, Christianity or Islam.

But Buddhism and atheism seem to be going neck and neck.....except for all of those countries aren't having kids...even the relatively poor ones.
 

Mowgli

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Ooga Booga?
What did atheists do before Abraham.

Two words

Ooga booga and Egypt


Edit
Recieved a low quality post by someone who doesn't u derstand historical analogies

Before Abraham the atheist biggest accomplishment were in the caveman era when they were sacrificing people drinking. Lood and finding fire. Consolidated jnto ooga booga aka caveman talk.
 
Last edited:

Seoul Gleou

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This alone is riduculous enough that it should push your point completely. You really tried to say that made-up alchemy is what makes society function at peak levels? :russ:

I already showed that the majority of the ACTUAL fathers of chemistry were either deeply religious Christians themselves or were taught and mentored by deeply religious Christians. But you think that doesn't count because someone in another country was falsely claiming they could turn iron into gold lol.






You sort of miss the part where Islam is heavily derivative of Christianity (to the point where they consider most of the Bible to be holy books and even believe in Jesus's virgin birth). And if you want to contest whether Islam or Christianity is more condusive to science, it's pretty obviously Christianity, which allows far more development of thought than Islam does.







Gerard, Galippus, and most of the other translators were Christians - in fact, the GREATEST preservers and translators of ancient texts, by far, were Christian monks. And up through the 1900s, Christian missionaries and monastics were more important to the translation between languages than any other group of people.

Literally all of the other points you mentioned had heavy Christian involvement too.






This is bizarre. You seem to assume that Christianity started in Europe (it had far more early influence in the Middle East, North Africa, and the Mediterranean region than it had in most of Europe), missing that Europe was full of barbarians, pagans, norsemen, and pirates for hundreds of years after the Mediterranean regions had been dominated by Judeochristianity.

And who were the "thriving" civilizations who were functioning at peak levels in the pre-colonial era? There were places that were doing better than Europe, but Europe wasn't exactly a bastion of Christianity yet either, and those places certainly weren't model democracies, practicing modern human rights, or scientifically advanced in the slightest.
Argue with these guys, not me. :unimpressed:

1. **How Math and Other Sciences Reached Europe**:
- Gutas, Dimitri. *Greek Thought, Arabic Culture: The Graeco-Arabic Translation Movement in Baghdad and Early Abbasid Society*. Routledge, 1998.
- Saliba, George. *Islamic Science and the Making of the European Renaissance*. MIT Press, 2007.
- Lindberg, David C. *The Beginnings of Western Science*. University of Chicago Press, 2007.

2. **Civilizations Thriving After the Dark Ages**:
- Kennedy, Hugh. *The Great Arab Conquests: How the Spread of Islam Changed the World We Live In*. Da Capo Press, 2007.
- Gascoigne, Bamber. *The Dynasties of China: A History*. Carroll & Graf Publishers, 2003.
- Eaton, Richard M. *India in the Persianate Age: 1000–1765*. University of California Press, 2019.
- Lockhart, Laurence. *The Fall of the Safavi Dynasty and the Afghan Occupation of Persia*. Cambridge University Press, 1958.

3. **Religious Influence on Scientific Advancement**:
- Grant, Edward. *Science and Religion, 400 B.C. to A.D. 1550: From Aristotle to Copernicus*. Greenwood Press, 2004.
- Lindberg, David C., and Ronald L. Numbers, eds. *God and Nature: Historical Essays on the Encounter between Christianity and Science*. University of California Press, 1986.
- Huff, Toby E. *The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China, and the West*. Cambridge University Press, 2003.
- Nasr, Seyyed Hossein. *Science and Civilization in Islam*. Harvard University Press, 1968.

5. **"The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization"** by Jonathan Lyons
6. **"Science and Islam: A History"** by Ehsan Masood
7. **"The Arabic Role in Medieval Literary History"** by Maria Rosa Menocal
 
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1. **Algebra**: The word "algebra" comes from the Arabic "al-jabr," which means "reunion of broken parts" or "completion." This term is part of the title of a mathematical work, "Al-Kitāb al-Mukhtaṣar fī Ḥisāb al-Jabr wal-Muqābala," written by the Persian mathematician and astronomer Al-Khwarizmi in the 9th century. The text laid the foundations for algebra as a branch of mathematics.

2. **Chemistry**: The term "chemistry" has its origins in the word "alchemy," which itself derives from the Arabic word "al-kīmiyā" (الكيمياء). The Arabic term is believed to have been derived from the Greek word "khemia," referring to the art of transmutation, particularly in transforming base metals into gold. Alchemy was a precursor to modern chemistry, involving a blend of philosophy, mysticism, and proto-scientific practices.

3. **Philosophy**: The word "philosophy" comes from the Greek "philosophia," meaning "love of wisdom." It is a combination of "philo" (φιλο), meaning "loving," and "sophia" (σοφία), meaning "wisdom." The term originally referred to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, covering a wide range of subjects including ethics, metaphysics, logic, and natural sciences.

Where in any of that can you find Christian influence?

Mathematics and other sciences reached Europe through several key historical events and cultural exchanges, particularly during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Here are some of the primary ways this knowledge was transferred:

1. **The Islamic Golden Age**: During the Islamic Golden Age (roughly 8th to 14th centuries), scholars in the Islamic world made significant advancements in various fields, including mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and philosophy. They preserved, translated, and expanded upon the works of ancient Greek, Indian, and Persian scholars. Notable figures like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (medicine), and Alhazen (optics) were instrumental in this knowledge transmission.

2. **Translation Movements**: One of the most significant periods for the transfer of knowledge to Europe was the Translation Movement, particularly centered in places like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and later in the cities of Toledo and Cordoba in Spain. During this period, many Arabic texts were translated into Latin. Scholars like Gerard of Cremona translated key works in mathematics, astronomy, and medicine, making them accessible to European intellectuals.

3. **The Crusades**: The Crusades (11th to 13th centuries) also played a role in cultural exchange. Europeans came into contact with the more advanced knowledge of the Islamic world, including scientific and mathematical understanding.

4. **The Reconquista and the Iberian Peninsula**: In Spain, during and after the Reconquista, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim scholars collaborated, further facilitating the exchange of knowledge. The School of Translators in Toledo became a crucial center for translating Arabic works into Latin.

5. **The Renaissance**: The Renaissance (14th to 17th centuries) marked a period of renewed interest in ancient Greek and Roman knowledge. The fall of Constantinople in 1453 also led to the migration of Greek scholars to the West, bringing with them important manuscripts. This period saw a revival in learning and the birth of modern science, spurred by the availability of ancient texts and the invention of the printing press.

6. **Travel and Exploration**: European explorers and traders, particularly during the Age of Exploration, encountered new knowledge and technologies from around the world, further enriching European scientific understanding. This included exposure to mathematical techniques and tools from China, India, and the Islamic world.

These channels of knowledge transfer helped to lay the foundation for the Scientific Revolution in Europe, leading to profound advancements in mathematics, physics, astronomy, biology, and chemistry.

How was Christianity a precursor to anything you mentioned or even a catalyst. It took several centuries to reach the age of enlightenment in Europe while other civilizations were thriving. I think it's interesting, from an anthropological perspective, that a so-called black forum is propagating western narratives and orientalist tropes :mjpls:

:laugh:

Is this some copied and pasted Wikipedia shyt or something?
 

TEH

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1. **Algebra**: The word "algebra" comes from the Arabic "al-jabr," which means "reunion of broken parts" or "completion." This term is part of the title of a mathematical work, "Al-Kitāb al-Mukhtaṣar fī Ḥisāb al-Jabr wal-Muqābala," written by the Persian mathematician and astronomer Al-Khwarizmi in the 9th century. The text laid the foundations for algebra as a branch of mathematics.

2. **Chemistry**: The term "chemistry" has its origins in the word "alchemy," which itself derives from the Arabic word "al-kīmiyā" (الكيمياء). The Arabic term is believed to have been derived from the Greek word "khemia," referring to the art of transmutation, particularly in transforming base metals into gold. Alchemy was a precursor to modern chemistry, involving a blend of philosophy, mysticism, and proto-scientific practices.

3. **Philosophy**: The word "philosophy" comes from the Greek "philosophia," meaning "love of wisdom." It is a combination of "philo" (φιλο), meaning "loving," and "sophia" (σοφία), meaning "wisdom." The term originally referred to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, covering a wide range of subjects including ethics, metaphysics, logic, and natural sciences.

Where in any of that can you find Christian influence?

Mathematics and other sciences reached Europe through several key historical events and cultural exchanges, particularly during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Here are some of the primary ways this knowledge was transferred:

1. **The Islamic Golden Age**: During the Islamic Golden Age (roughly 8th to 14th centuries), scholars in the Islamic world made significant advancements in various fields, including mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and philosophy. They preserved, translated, and expanded upon the works of ancient Greek, Indian, and Persian scholars. Notable figures like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (medicine), and Alhazen (optics) were instrumental in this knowledge transmission.

2. **Translation Movements**: One of the most significant periods for the transfer of knowledge to Europe was the Translation Movement, particularly centered in places like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and later in the cities of Toledo and Cordoba in Spain. During this period, many Arabic texts were translated into Latin. Scholars like Gerard of Cremona translated key works in mathematics, astronomy, and medicine, making them accessible to European intellectuals.

3. **The Crusades**: The Crusades (11th to 13th centuries) also played a role in cultural exchange. Europeans came into contact with the more advanced knowledge of the Islamic world, including scientific and mathematical understanding.

4. **The Reconquista and the Iberian Peninsula**: In Spain, during and after the Reconquista, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim scholars collaborated, further facilitating the exchange of knowledge. The School of Translators in Toledo became a crucial center for translating Arabic works into Latin.

5. **The Renaissance**: The Renaissance (14th to 17th centuries) marked a period of renewed interest in ancient Greek and Roman knowledge. The fall of Constantinople in 1453 also led to the migration of Greek scholars to the West, bringing with them important manuscripts. This period saw a revival in learning and the birth of modern science, spurred by the availability of ancient texts and the invention of the printing press.

6. **Travel and Exploration**: European explorers and traders, particularly during the Age of Exploration, encountered new knowledge and technologies from around the world, further enriching European scientific understanding. This included exposure to mathematical techniques and tools from China, India, and the Islamic world.

These channels of knowledge transfer helped to lay the foundation for the Scientific Revolution in Europe, leading to profound advancements in mathematics, physics, astronomy, biology, and chemistry.

How was Christianity a precursor to anything you mentioned or even a catalyst. It took several centuries to reach the age of enlightenment in Europe while other civilizations were thriving. I think it's interesting, from an anthropological perspective, that a so-called black forum is propagating western narratives and orientalist tropes :mjpls:

One word to sum up your bullshyt post

Strawman

How about you list the Christian inventors and scientists instead to stick to my point
 

Seoul Gleou

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One word to sum up your bullshyt post

Strawman

How about you list the Christian inventors and scientists instead to stick to my point
I'm not interested in your point. :unimpressed:

My point was that philosophy, chemistry, and algebra didn't come from Christianity. I proved my point, with sources.

Yours was that I'm lying and, therefore, the burden of proof is on you to show how I am, not me.
 

TEH

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I'm not interested in your point. :unimpressed:

My point was that philosophy, chemistry, and algebra didn't come from Christianity. I proved my point, with sources.

Yours was that I'm lying and, therefore, the burden of proof is on you to show how I am, not me.
You said Christianity is anti science

You have not proven that point yet Sir.
 

Seoul Gleou

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Chemistry, algebra, and philosophy all didn't come from Christianity

In fact, Christianity actively repressed scientific breakthroughs while other religions pushed it forward
You said Christianity is anti science

You have not proven that point yet Sir.
Highlight and bold where I said Christianity is anti science
 

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