Do you believe that Christianity is needed for society to function at peak levels?

Bugzbunny129

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with or without religion, the spiritual world exists. Something would take its place as it always had. Wishing away religion is just as much a fantasy as the stories in the bible.

As for peak levels? Yes. There is no greater example than jesus. Problem is people dont follow him yet say they do.

People need to believe in something. Every culture does. Obviously theres something to it.


Those who blame religion for the worlds ills dont take human nature into account. Christianity kinda made people group up enough to build nations and then ally long enough to achieve things we wouldnt have as a thousand tribes with a thousand gods. To the powers at the time’s annoyance … but thats human nature to those in power. Religion was just the new power. But it always was really. Nothing changed in reality just the values.

But christianity is an open religion for all peoples wheras judaism kind of divides peoples on some israel vs all.

Idk. Tough question. Today? The problems in the world today imo are because we are losing god. All the shyt we cry about today wouldnt even exist in a real christian society, which america is NOT.
 
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JesusFOREVER

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No, that sham of a religion that promotes wh*te Jesus at the forefront is the biggest deception in the history of our planet, a society that functions at peak levels is one where the black men and women of Israel have returned to their homeland and the messiah reigns supreme on his throne
 

ReasonableMatic

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For those who believe it is; are you saying before the white man introduced Christianity to the masses in WEST and CENTRAL Africa; your ancestors were savages :sas1:?
Exactly, the elephant in the fukkin room.

KOONS in here stay exposing Massa successfully turned them into white ppl in Black bodies. Talkin bout:

“Thank God Massa saved our souls from those savage African ways and gave us Christianity through colonialism and slavery”
-
full

LOST NIKKAS
:scust:
IMG-5410.jpg
 
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voltronblack

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:jbhmm:I don't think you need Christianity especially it can be any religion that can bring people together to work for the betterment of the community.



the speaker discusses Ibn Khaldun's theory on the establishment of royal authority in civilizations. According to Ibn Khaldun, without a centralized authority and a common ideology, tribal societies cannot go beyond a local level due to competing group feelings and infighting. However, a charismatic leader with a strong following can unite these groups and establish royal authority. The leader becomes the head of the state and uses military power as a restraining influence to prevent infighting. Ibn Khaldun believed that this authoritarianism was necessary to establish civilizations, although he did not see an alternative way to do so without coercion. The speaker also notes that monarchy, or dynasty more broadly, is a form of traditional authority, which is akin to a sacred paternal authority that unifies the past and present of a civilization. In Dune, Paul Atreides becomes the head of the Fremen's royal authority, and the sacred aspect of this authority adds a powerful sense of legitimacy. Ibn Khaldun also believed that dynasties have their origin in religion based on prophethood or truthful propaganda.

the speaker discusses the role of Asabiyyah, or group feeling, in the effectiveness of religious propaganda and leadership. Ibn Khaldun believed that while religion can foster unity and help people cope with suffering, it loses its power without Asabiyyah. Every political undertaking requires a strong sense of group feeling, and without it, people will only obey out of custom or passive consent. The speaker argues that the Fremen's religion in the Dune series is more powerful due to their stronger Asabiyyah, which cannot materialize without group feeling. Ibn Khaldun's most important contribution to the theory of religion and ideology is the belief that religion and Asabiyyah are interconnected, and that the power of an authority is at its highest when people voluntarily adopt its will as their own.
the speaker explores the role of religion in social cohesion and the formation of states, drawing parallels between the works of Ibn Khaldun and the Dune universe. Religion, according to the speaker, enhances discipline and tenacity, facilitates community, and gives people a sense of purpose. Ibn Khaldun believed that religion helped suppress egoic feelings and maintain social cohesion, or Asabiyyahh. However, the speaker notes that the dissolution of religion during modernity was a dilemma that thinkers like Max Weber and Friedrich Nietzsche grappled with. Despite the decline of religion in the western world, the speaker questions what comes after religion and whether it's better or worse. The speaker also discusses the relationship between prophethood and royal authority in Dune, arguing that the establishment of a state requires a monopoly on violence and the creation of royal authority to unify different groups.
the speaker discusses Ibn Khaldun's theory on the decline of civilizations and the role of class conflict in the process. Ibn Khaldun, a 14th-century historian and philosopher, argued that civilizations stagnated due to the reliance on thinking machines and the emergence of class hierarchies. The speaker explains that Ibn Khaldun's theory of class struggle is often overlooked, and he highlights the scholar Yves Lacoste's work on this topic. Ibn Khaldun believed that royal authority marked the entrenchment of class rule, leading to wealth disparities and the decline of group feeling, or Asabiyyah. The speaker illustrates this phenomenon with a quote from Ibn Khaldun, explaining how the emergence of a ruling class leads to the exclusion of others from possessing property and the unequal distribution of wealth. The speaker emphasizes that most interpretations of Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah focus on the decay of the population as a whole, but it is crucial to recognize the role of the ruling class in the process. The speaker also touches on the use of foreign mercenaries as a double-edged sword for declining civilizations.
 

Seoul Gleou

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Lies

In fact many scientists and inventors like Galileo and Mendel etc were Christian

Stop these lies


1. **Algebra**: The word "algebra" comes from the Arabic "al-jabr," which means "reunion of broken parts" or "completion." This term is part of the title of a mathematical work, "Al-Kitāb al-Mukhtaṣar fī Ḥisāb al-Jabr wal-Muqābala," written by the Persian mathematician and astronomer Al-Khwarizmi in the 9th century. The text laid the foundations for algebra as a branch of mathematics.

2. **Chemistry**: The term "chemistry" has its origins in the word "alchemy," which itself derives from the Arabic word "al-kīmiyā" (الكيمياء). The Arabic term is believed to have been derived from the Greek word "khemia," referring to the art of transmutation, particularly in transforming base metals into gold. Alchemy was a precursor to modern chemistry, involving a blend of philosophy, mysticism, and proto-scientific practices.

3. **Philosophy**: The word "philosophy" comes from the Greek "philosophia," meaning "love of wisdom." It is a combination of "philo" (φιλο), meaning "loving," and "sophia" (σοφία), meaning "wisdom." The term originally referred to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding, covering a wide range of subjects including ethics, metaphysics, logic, and natural sciences.

Where in any of that can you find Christian influence?
Academic achievements don't make a society function (though it's worth noting that a massive amount of the push for education and construction of both universities and public schooling over the centuries has come from Christian circles, where many other societies were fine with education remaining with a few elites. Not to mention that Christians have been the #1 influence in world history for basic literacy, to the point of even creating hundreds of written languages for societies that didn't even have one yet.).

By the way, "chemistry" is a natural process, so it didn't come from any human being. But the title of "father of modern chemistry" is sometimes given to Robert Boyle (a devout Anglican who wrote many theological texts), as well as John Dalton (a devout Quaker who lived Quaker values), or Antoine Lavoisier (whose passion for chemistry is largely credited to the influence of Etienne Condillac, a famous scholar and Catholic priest). I wonder if you're referring more to alchemy, which was haphazard and largely false.











That's a stereotype that isn't well-grounded in reality.

The "Father of the Scientific Method" is Francis Bacon, a very devout Christian. Isaac Newton, who founded both physics and calculus, was so religious that he wrote more theological books than scientific books. Copernicus, the father of modern astronomy, was a full-time Catholic Canon whose entire career was funded by his uncle, the Bishop. The father of genetics was Gregor Mendel, a monk of course. The inventor of the Big Bang Theory was Lemaître, a Catholic priest. Irish and other monks were heavily responsible for preserving the academic and philosophical writings from Greek/Roman/Egyptian society from being destroyed by the barbarians and helped thus end the Dark Ages. The Jesuit order is famous for pushing the pursuit of higher education across the world and starting the first (and often best) schools in thousands of places. Look up many of the most renowned institutes of higher education across the world and you find some sort of Christian foundation, from Cambridge to Harvard to even Tsinghua University.

If Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or any of the animist religions had as strong a tradition of "pushing science forward" as you seem to claim, then where was their scientific revolution or era of mass education?
Mathematics and other sciences reached Europe through several key historical events and cultural exchanges, particularly during the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Here are some of the primary ways this knowledge was transferred:

1. **The Islamic Golden Age**: During the Islamic Golden Age (roughly 8th to 14th centuries), scholars in the Islamic world made significant advancements in various fields, including mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and philosophy. They preserved, translated, and expanded upon the works of ancient Greek, Indian, and Persian scholars. Notable figures like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (medicine), and Alhazen (optics) were instrumental in this knowledge transmission.

2. **Translation Movements**: One of the most significant periods for the transfer of knowledge to Europe was the Translation Movement, particularly centered in places like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and later in the cities of Toledo and Cordoba in Spain. During this period, many Arabic texts were translated into Latin. Scholars like Gerard of Cremona translated key works in mathematics, astronomy, and medicine, making them accessible to European intellectuals.

3. **The Crusades**: The Crusades (11th to 13th centuries) also played a role in cultural exchange. Europeans came into contact with the more advanced knowledge of the Islamic world, including scientific and mathematical understanding.

4. **The Reconquista and the Iberian Peninsula**: In Spain, during and after the Reconquista, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim scholars collaborated, further facilitating the exchange of knowledge. The School of Translators in Toledo became a crucial center for translating Arabic works into Latin.

5. **The Renaissance**: The Renaissance (14th to 17th centuries) marked a period of renewed interest in ancient Greek and Roman knowledge. The fall of Constantinople in 1453 also led to the migration of Greek scholars to the West, bringing with them important manuscripts. This period saw a revival in learning and the birth of modern science, spurred by the availability of ancient texts and the invention of the printing press.

6. **Travel and Exploration**: European explorers and traders, particularly during the Age of Exploration, encountered new knowledge and technologies from around the world, further enriching European scientific understanding. This included exposure to mathematical techniques and tools from China, India, and the Islamic world.

These channels of knowledge transfer helped to lay the foundation for the Scientific Revolution in Europe, leading to profound advancements in mathematics, physics, astronomy, biology, and chemistry.

How was Christianity a precursor to anything you mentioned or even a catalyst. It took several centuries to reach the age of enlightenment in Europe while other civilizations were thriving. I think it's interesting, from an anthropological perspective, that a so-called black forum is propagating western narratives and orientalist tropes :mjpls:
 

Professor Emeritus

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2. **Chemistry**: The term "chemistry" has its origins in the word "alchemy," which itself derives from the Arabic word "al-kīmiyā" (الكيمياء). The Arabic term is believed to have been derived from the Greek word "khemia," referring to the art of transmutation, particularly in transforming base metals into gold. Alchemy was a precursor to modern chemistry, involving a blend of philosophy, mysticism, and proto-scientific practices.....


Where in any of that can you find Christian influence?

This alone is riduculous enough that it should push your point completely. You really tried to say that made-up alchemy is what makes society function at peak levels? :russ:

I already showed that the majority of the ACTUAL fathers of chemistry were either deeply religious Christians themselves or were taught and mentored by deeply religious Christians. But you think that doesn't count because someone in another country was falsely claiming they could turn iron into gold lol.




1. **The Islamic Golden Age**: During the Islamic Golden Age (roughly 8th to 14th centuries), scholars in the Islamic world made significant advancements in various fields, including mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and philosophy. They preserved, translated, and expanded upon the works of ancient Greek, Indian, and Persian scholars. Notable figures like Al-Khwarizmi (mathematics), Avicenna (medicine), and Alhazen (optics) were instrumental in this knowledge transmission.

You sort of miss the part where Islam is heavily derivative of Christianity (to the point where they consider most of the Bible to be holy books and even believe in Jesus's virgin birth). And if you want to contest whether Islam or Christianity is more condusive to science, it's pretty obviously Christianity, which allows far more development of thought than Islam does.





2. **Translation Movements**: One of the most significant periods for the transfer of knowledge to Europe was the Translation Movement, particularly centered in places like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and later in the cities of Toledo and Cordoba in Spain. During this period, many Arabic texts were translated into Latin. Scholars like Gerard of Cremona translated key works in mathematics, astronomy, and medicine, making them accessible to European intellectuals.

Gerard, Galippus, and most of the other translators were Christians - in fact, the GREATEST preservers and translators of ancient texts, by far, were Christian monks. And up through the 1900s, Christian missionaries and monastics were more important to the translation between languages than any other group of people.

Literally all of the other points you mentioned had heavy Christian involvement too.




How was Christianity a precursor to anything you mentioned or even a catalyst. It took several centuries to reach the age of enlightenment in Europe while other civilizations were thriving.

This is bizarre. You seem to assume that Christianity started in Europe (it had far more early influence in the Middle East, North Africa, and the Mediterranean region than it had in most of Europe), missing that Europe was full of barbarians, pagans, norsemen, and pirates for hundreds of years after the Mediterranean regions had been dominated by Judeochristianity.

And who were the "thriving" civilizations who were functioning at peak levels in the pre-colonial era? There were places that were doing better than Europe, but Europe wasn't exactly a bastion of Christianity yet either, and those places certainly weren't model democracies, practicing modern human rights, or scientifically advanced in the slightest.
 

voiture

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This is a complicated topic. The question here I suppose is western civilization? A lot of things in western culture is rooted in Christianity like calendar.
The problem just like any religion, is that they try to impose their will on people who don't subscribe to the religion and that's when everything falls apart.

No one can deny that the foundations of western civilization is Christianity just like no one can deny that the foundation of the Arabic world is Islam.
 

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They were Christians due to the time period they lived in. If they were alive today with the science available I doubt they would be devout Christians.


That's another silly stereotype. Georges Lemaître knew WAY more science than you do, breh. Newton, Copernicus, Mendel, Galileo, Bacon, they knew more than enough science to know that people don't raise from the dead or walk on water via natural means. Scientific knowledge doesn't have anything to do with whether you believe in Christianity or not.

The break between the scientific community and Christianity started in the late 1800s / early 1900s due to a culture war between certain athiest Darwinians (who had already been atheists before Darwin's theory was ever published) and certain Christian Fundamentalists (who had already been theologically wrong before evolution ever became part of it). The Darwinists worked as hard as possible to make scientific communities unwelcoming to Christians regardless of what those Christians believed about evolution, and the fundamentalists worked to make Christians antagonistic to science. It was those social reasons, not any meaningful scientific knowledge, that began causing the disconnect.
 
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