Do Teachers Deserve To Be Paid MORE? (Are Black Parents Involved In Their Child's Education?)

[Professor Emeritus]

Here's a story on a bit of it:

What Happens When Finnish Educators Teach in America's Public Schools?

“I have been very tired—more tired and confused than I have ever been in my life,” Kristiina Chartouni, a veteran Finnish educator who began teaching American high-school students this autumn, said in an email. “I am supposedly doing what I love, but I don't recognize this profession as the one that I fell in love with in Finland.”

And the results are spectacular:

Why Are Finland's Schools Successful? | Innovation | Smithsonian

The transformation of the Finns’ education system began some 40 years ago as the key propellent of the country’s economic recovery plan. Educators had little idea it was so successful until 2000, when the first results from the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), a standardized test given to 15-year-olds in more than 40 global venues, revealed Finnish youth to be the best young readers in the world. Three years later, they led in math. By 2006, Finland was first out of 57 countries (and a few cities) in science. In the 2009 PISA scores released last year, the nation came in second in science, third in reading and sixth in math among nearly half a million students worldwide. “I’m still surprised,” said Arjariita Heikkinen, principal of a Helsinki comprehensive school. “I didn’t realize we were that good.”

About that "economic recovery plan" - people don't realize that Finland was practically a 3rd-world-nation until recent history. Historically they were mostly poor rural farmers, then they got invaded by the USSR in WW2 and then had to fight off Germany, so their country was left in ruins. They didn't start the path towards a developed country until the 1950s, and even then I've heard stories from government officials there about their own personal experiences living in rural Finland in the 1970s without internal plumbing like it was Appalachia or some shyt.

Their educational success has been incredible and they deserve to be followed in that.

Counter to the White Nationalists who are all pro-Nordic and shyt, they are BIG into diversity and multiculturalism in the schools there too.

 

[Icantspell]

idk my art teacher made bank

showed us his contract


he was getting paid 80-90 /hr

 

[SirReginald]

idk my art teacher made bank

showed us his contract


he was getting paid 80-90 /hr

He must be doing other shyt.

 

[Icantspell]

He must be doing other shyt.

nah

all we did was draw no lecture homework or anything.



if u seen blood in blood out the virgin mary mural is his.

 

[SirReginald]

nah

all we did was draw no lecture homework or anything.



if u seen blood in blood out the virgin mary mural is his.

Damn, he got a dope ass job then.

 

[Serious]

I cant view these inherent disincentives to become a public k-12 teacher as mere happenstance...as its been said in this thread now u have to pay a few thousands (im sure it varies per area) to get some additional certifications on top of your degrees to not even make 35k in alot of cases while juggling life + student debt ...thats not the pathway to improve whats already known to be internationally substandard for even white children/white schools...and the teacher shortages are nuts....especially in these unnamed rural locations...quite a way to remedy all that, eh?

I think there will be a dramatic negative change or possibly an outright implosion of public education as we know it in my lifetime...may sound hyperbolic, but education is clearly obviously not an institutional concern.

Look no further than the current administration trying to disband the department of education.

 

[Serious]

Finland has some of the best schools and the happiest teachers in the world. You wanna know how they do it?

* They only take the best. You have to be in the top 1/4 of college graduates in order to get into a teacher education program, and acceptance rates for the program are less than 10%. They're THAT competitive that 90% of the people who want to become teachers don't make it. Teachers are evaluated for their aptitude for teaching, their ability to think critically and their ability to evaluate educational debates before they are even accepted into the program.

* Teachers have a high level of respect in Finland, it's treated as a prestigious job. They're paid slightly more than American teachers are, but work fewer hours.

* Teachers are given a large degree of autonomy. They have control over their lesson plans, their classrooms, and their outside-of-class hours. Their teaching material isn't controlled nearly as much as it is in many USA schools, and the principal doesn't have as much authority over them as they do here. They're treated more like university professors are treated in America than the way K12 teachers are treated.

* Teachers work together and collaborate with each other more there. They are given scheduled time outside of class to talk to each other and figure things out rather than being completely isolated and overworked in their own classrooms all day.

* Homework is rare, Finnish students do less than half as much homework as American students. Play and unstructured time is more common, there is about 15 minutes of free time within every hour.

* No standardized testing. Students only take one standardized test in all of elementary school and the only point is to evaluate whether things are still going well - the test does not have any stakes connected to it for the student or for the teacher. No classroom time is spent on test prep.

* No "alternative" schools, no "magnet" schools, no "gifted" schools. All schools are basically the same and everyone goes to their local school. Kids with issues and kids who are gifted are mainstreamed together in the same classrooms as much as possible.



Here's a story on a bit of it:

What Happens When Finnish Educators Teach in America's Public Schools?





And the results are spectacular:

Why Are Finland's Schools Successful? | Innovation | Smithsonian





About that "economic recovery plan" - people don't realize that Finland was practically a 3rd-world-nation until recent history. Historically they were mostly poor rural farmers, then they got invaded by the USSR in WW2 and then had to fight off Germany, so their country was left in ruins. They didn't start the path towards a developed country until the 1950s, and even then I've heard stories from government officials there about their own personal experiences living in rural Finland in the 1970s without internal plumbing like it was Appalachia or some shyt.

Their educational success has been incredible and they deserve to be followed in that.

Counter to the White Nationalists who are all pro-Nordic and shyt, they are BIG into diversity and multiculturalism in the schools there too.

Implementing this makes too much sense. The truth is people in power love the status quo. Actually they wish it were worse so they could cause more dysfunction and build more prisons.

 

[FlimFlam]

Look no further than the current administration trying to disband the department of education.

Yea, but he inherited the already downward trajectory, and he just adding to it....the dumb shyt with this, and other essential shyt, isnt bound to party lines

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Implementing this makes too much sense. The truth is people in power love the status quo. Actually they wish it were worse so they could cause more dysfunction and build more prisons.

I'm not one to believe they think the evil through quite that far. There are more direct profiteers (College Board, and the desire to pay lower state taxes) along with the fact that they naturally tend towards authoritarian models, along with the fact that they just don't give a shyt about poor and/or minority kids.

Yea, but he inherited the already downward trajectory, and he just adding to it....the dumb shyt with this, and other essential shyt, isnt bound to party lines

Agreed. The Republicans are probably the worst on ed policy, but the Democrats are rarely right either.

 

[AllHolosEve]

Didnt learn this until freshmen year of college. Had no idea how brutal slavery was or the depth of fukkery in regard to treatment of black people(or anyone nonwhite) in the US

This was 7th & 8th grade. She was schooling us on Black inventors, how Columbus didn't discover America, how many white women were worthless & the kids loved their Black nanny more. She wanted to teach us more but was told by her supervisors to fall back or lose her job.

I found it ironic her name was Mrs. Brown.

So I had a few teachers like this in hs. Truth is, that's life. Some people want to learn and others want to fukk around chat the whole time. I kinda get it, but school can be a gloried social / day care center. I place half the blame on parents for not rising their kids to be respectful of adults in an authority position and half is on the teacher. I won't front like their werent some kids straight up causing havoc in the classroom, which inhibited on the lesson.

Our class had a couple clowns but this teacher was on that Asian overachiever shyt where she couldn't fukk with you if you weren't instantly catching on. She had no skills to connect with her students, just write shyt on the board, sit at her desk & put you in groups to do it yourself.

 

[SirReginald]