Do black creators neccessarily make a genre black?I say no,some say yes.
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stealthbomber
cruising at 30,000
real nikkas do real things regardless of where they are and what era it is
FeloniousMonk
Dont mind me..Im a azzhole
I can be classically trained in music, make hip hop yet that doesnt denote my music is classical even if I use classical structures in my music.
If they wanted to make rock sounding music, they would had, sample or otherwise. Those Krush Grooves produced by Larry Smith sound nothing like european or rock influenced, unlike most of the Licensed To Ill album produced by Rick Rubin.
Rick Rubin liked hip hop because it paralleled the rebelliousness and freedom of punk and rock.
Also
Rick Rubin added hip hop to his repertoire, he never stopped producing rock albums.
Rap was new. From Profile Records and Rush Managment to Def Jam; already established itself as a viable brand, the Beasties coming out when they first met Rick would not had garnered the same impact in 83's that they did in 86'
Because all he did was replay the melody, like most hip hop created with live instrumentation in the early 80's.
He also sites his other influences for the song as well other than just being Kraftwork.
Im speaking on foundation as it pertains to legacy and cultural advancement, not compositions. We all know where most samples or interpolations come from nowdays. If you want to debate from that angle, the answer is obvious. When you speak on hip hop and the creation of songs within this new form of music due to its popularity, basically cats rapping over disco, then breakbeats, left many stifled due to lack of funds to produce music of the era, yet there still some who had backgrounds in music and able to use their resources.The music of the time was being transitioned from using actual instrumentation-phasing out of the disco era and ushering the electronic music era with the introduction of theTR 808 drum machine 1980, E-mu sampler in 81 and in terms of drum programming and sampling which was becoming popular the sp 12 in 85, which became more affordable for the every day man who wanted to "make beats".
You have to remember hip hop music in terms of culture became very definitive around the time of the technological shift in equipment advances.
So Hip Hop at its essence's melodies will encompass whatever the influence is whether it be rock, blues, jazz, new wave or sampling Kraftwork.
This means more avant garde style and approaches to music production and writing.
Its always been black music since blacks stay innovating ways to create.
What's this european influence you speak on, cite resources.
The fact is the base of the culture is black, and even THEY acknowledge this.
If I create a music for my people and they are the last to catch on, still doesn't take away the music is for my people.
Rap had problems getting on the radio because it was new, from the streets (like all forms of black music), unheard of and nobody supported it.
Just like most forms of black music created from blues to jazz to rock n roll.
But you speak on these euro influences without citing sources other than a song being sampled and hip hop music is much much more than that in a cultural sense in using of said sample.
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AnotherRoute
Just another post by
When a genre created by black was being condemed it was known as negro music or black music and had a negative connotation. Once it became poplar in white america then it becomes “ everyones ” music.
In the case of house it started with black folks but is no longer a genre we take part in on a large scale.
In the case of house it started with black folks but is no longer a genre we take part in on a large scale.
"Those breakbeats . . . we would listen all day to music trying to find one beat that was good enough for us to rap on. We loved [“Walk This Way”] because it was rock-and-roll. There were DJs in the early ’70s. When Flash came out, he took it to the next level. He understood that when you played the song, the greatest part of the song was the break, when it came down to the drums. So he decided to play just the break."
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Corey Robbins-"It was impossible to get [Run-DMC] played on pop radio. Not hard — not even in the realm of possibility."
Tim Sommer-"Rick tells me, “I need a white rock song that can be turned into a rap song.” "
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And what kind of music were you playing?
"We was playin’ everything, everything that was funky. Records which was just comin’ out, and the disco music of the time. We would play oldies-but-goodies, lot of the soul and funk songs of the late ’60s, early ’70s, some rock records."-Bambatta
But your thing was more about having records no one else knew about.?
"Yeah. We was bringing out more of the funky music and mixing in the funky breaks. The other DJs, they might bring out certain breakbeat records, but the Zulu Nation was more progressive minded, and their audiences. If we played a certain rock record, then everyone else would jump on it, because a lot of the other people’s audiences wasn’t so open like ours. They know our DJs were crazy motherfukkers, just play all crazy type of shyt. They even would stop in the middle of a party and throw on a commercial, you know, from some of the TV shows we thought was just bugged and funky for the people to hear.
Where were you buying your music?
Well, I had a large record collection, starting with what my mother bought. She probably bought the first 200 records in the house and I bought the other crazy thousands. I started at a very early young age and I was heavy into the Motown, the Stax sound and all them, the Sly, James Brown sound. I was a radio fanatic nut. So I would switch from WABC to WWIL, to WLIB, you know, WCBS…
So where were you hearing records like Yellow Magic Orchestraand Kraftwerk and stuff like that?
Once I started getting into the record pools, at a young age. I was in the rock pool, I was in a pool called Sure Record pool, I was in IDIC, can’t remember all the damn pools I been in"-Bambatta
How did you discover Kraftwerk, do you remember?
It was from some record store downtown, in the Village.
What did you think?
I thought it was some weird shyt. Some funky mechanical crazy shyt. And more and more as I kept listening to it, I said, “They some funky white guys. Where they from?” Start reading all the… I always read labels yunno, want to see what it says on the back, who wrote what. I went digging more into their history so I got into Autobahn, and once I got into rock pool, they told me other things to check out, and I was checking Radioactivity.
Hugo Montenegro - Love Them from The Godfather
You played a lot of crazy stuff.
I got into Hugo Montenegro, looking for the Godfather theme, which was a break, and then they had another one, dikk Hyman who did a more electronic type of James Brown groove. Then I got into Gary Numan, couple of other things, and mixing their stuff up with the funk, and James and Sly. It was an interesting mix for our audience. They were bugging out when we got into “Cars,” and “Metal,” and you see the audience waits wants to hear the beginning of “Metal,” the synthesizer and the beat just claps and stuff...-Bambatta
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How did you feel about that, cos it’s a totally different audience. What was the party like?
Oh, they were funky, they got loose. They liked the shyt I was playing, Ohio Players, Kool and the Gang, Jungle Boogie all that stuff, mixed with the breakbeats and the disco stuff. Once I was getting more into the rock pool and hearing a lot of punk rock records I started playing a lot of their stuff. Flying Lizards and all that other type of things that I might think that would get over there. And that’s when my following started happening. “I want you at Jefferson.” “I want you at the Mudd Club.” “I want you at Danceteria.” I need you at the…
Where was Jefferson?
It was down from the Palladium. It was a big old movie house. And they had these romantic parties upstairs, when they used to come dressing like pirates, looking like Adam Ant. Then you had other scenes where they looked like vampires. It was definitely a weird scene. After a while you started getting used to it and it was on. Then when they started coming up to our places, it was very fun and interesting. Especially when we was shutting up the mouths of the press. The media would be saying, “Oh, there’s gonna be racial fights” and all this shyt, but then it was just people partying, hanging, taking pictures, cooling out. Lines with black, white all in ‘em waiting to get in. And we give much props to the punk rockers, ‘cos they was some of the most fair to just come out and party along with the people, for the music. Like Uncle George Clintonused to say, “One nation under a groove.”
Once we started playing downtown, once it started getting towards the late ’70s, early ’80s you start seeing the white punk rockers started coming to the black and Latino areas to hear the music. They would come to the Bronx. People were scared at first, you know you had the media said, “Oh, there’s gonna be race violence,” which we showed them was a bunch of shyt.
And at first people was buggin’, when they first seen them, Blacks and Latinos looked at them like they crazy. They had the spikes and the hair, and the colors and all the different clothing, but then when that music hit, you just see everybody tearing they ass up. And then the punk rockers developed a dance which they used to do, and this became a black and Latino dance called the punk rock. You see the punk rockers learning the black dances and the blacks and Latinos learning the punk rockers dances that they was doing. And then the parties just was killing.-Bambatta
^There I show Run Dmc did in fact want to make a rock song to reach other audiences,heres another about there first album though.
"When Run-D.M.C.'s eponymous first album was released in the spring of 1984, it was hailed by Robert Christgau ("the dean of American rock critics") as "easily the canniest and most formally sustained [hip hop] album ever."[14] One of the album's standout tracks was "Rock Box," a pioneering hybrid of hip hop and rock. According to Bill Adler in Tougher Than Leather: The Rise of Run-D.M.C., the record came together when the group overheard a rock band named Riot recording in New York's Greene Street Studios. "They saw these loud guitars," remembers Russell Simmons, "and they started screaming, 'We can do that! What the fukk—we're going to make loud shyt, too!'"
Steve Loeb, Greene Street's owner, was frankly skeptical of the viability of a rock-hip hop crossover. "You're out of your mind," he told Smith.
"nikkas play rock 'n' roll, too," Smith replied. He then recruited his old Hollis, Queens, friend Eddie Martinez—known to his friends as the Manic Hispanic—to lay in the guitar part for "Rock Box."[15][16]"
You can't say they were not Rock influenced,you can't say early hiphop wasn't euro influenced when you have guys like Bambatta citing disco whos culture was european
. Consisted of coke culture,open sexuality,dancing side by side with homos,with physcadellic hippie influence culturally. They were competing to play the most "different" sounding shyt that nobody else had. So naturally they were doing the same things these rappers do today where they go outside of black culture for sound,and think they are experimental geniuses.
This was bigger than samples,and according to Bambatta whites didn't hate hiphop as much as advertised,at least not young whites. Which would make hiphop in the melting pot of NY,more "youth culture"/youth music more than it was black music. It wasn't music catering to black people early on.
It just BARELY made the deadline of becoming black music before it left NY. If it hadn't the argument would have even more ramifications that hiphop wasn't black music until it migrated West.
"When Run-D.M.C.'s eponymous first album was released in the spring of 1984, it was hailed by Robert Christgau ("the dean of American rock critics") as "easily the canniest and most formally sustained [hip hop] album ever."[14] One of the album's standout tracks was "Rock Box," a pioneering hybrid of hip hop and rock. According to Bill Adler in Tougher Than Leather: The Rise of Run-D.M.C., the record came together when the group overheard a rock band named Riot recording in New York's Greene Street Studios. "They saw these loud guitars," remembers Russell Simmons, "and they started screaming, 'We can do that! What the fukk—we're going to make loud shyt, too!'"
Steve Loeb, Greene Street's owner, was frankly skeptical of the viability of a rock-hip hop crossover. "You're out of your mind," he told Smith.
"nikkas play rock 'n' roll, too," Smith replied. He then recruited his old Hollis, Queens, friend Eddie Martinez—known to his friends as the Manic Hispanic—to lay in the guitar part for "Rock Box."[15][16]"
You can't say they were not Rock influenced,you can't say early hiphop wasn't euro influenced when you have guys like Bambatta citing disco whos culture was european
. Consisted of coke culture,open sexuality,dancing side by side with homos,with physcadellic hippie influence culturally. They were competing to play the most "different" sounding shyt that nobody else had. So naturally they were doing the same things these rappers do today where they go outside of black culture for sound,and think they are experimental geniuses. This was bigger than samples,and according to Bambatta whites didn't hate hiphop as much as advertised,at least not young whites. Which would make hiphop in the melting pot of NY,more "youth culture"/youth music more than it was black music. It wasn't music catering to black people early on.
It just BARELY made the deadline of becoming black music before it left NY. If it hadn't the argument would have even more ramifications that hiphop wasn't black music until it migrated West.
KravenMorehead™
Barrel Brothers.®
Who do you think disco came from? 