Do black creators neccessarily make a genre black?I say no,some say yes.

[Benefited]

A creation must be attributed to the creator, regardless who the creator intended the audience to be. A creation comes from a person's spirit, which is in tuned with his/her people. The mind just packages it in a way for it to be received by others.

Are you saying something that white people created,could never become black?
Is basketball not a black sport?
Plus if hiphop was influenced by Reggae,how come its not Jamaican music?
Even if it would still be black music,I'm almost 100% sure that as black americans,we would not allow Jamaicans to call hiphop "Jamaican music"
I could be wrong?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

to answer the op's question, if the genre was rooted in black musical tastes and experiences, the answer is obviously, yea

 

[Harry B]

to answer the op's question, if the genre was rooted in black musical tastes and experiences, the answer is obviously, yea

Christmas is rooted in shyt that took place in the middle east, is the way we celebrate Christmas Arabic culture?
There's probably not a single American food dish that doesn't originate from something else, is there no American food?

Imo it's all about how shyt evolves, we can't be specific and say that hiphop is Island immigrants from NY culture just cause they started what we now know as hiphop. Mad American born brehs from across the nation done shaped it into what we know it as.

 

[Benefited]

So is it only a black movie because it was a black director and majority black cast, yet never touched on black issues?

black male being angry stemming from fatherlessness,black love,black motivation and perserverence,the soundtrack?
Even still,I'm not saying there were no clear black songs,black sound,that catered to blacks before hiphop became a black genre.
But it wasn't black music/black genre out the gate,just because blacks were the first.
If you somehow found out a peurto rican was actualy the first to do hiphop,would hiphop be a peurto rican music?You dudes don't want to call it peurto rican AND black music now even though you acknowledge it started with black and brown contributors.

 

[Dad]

black male being angry stemming from fatherlessness,black love,black motivation and perserverence,the soundtrack?
Even still,I'm not saying there were no clear black songs,black sound,that catered to blacks before hiphop became a black genre.
But it wasn't black music/black genre out the gate,just because blacks were the first.
If you somehow found out a peurto rican was actualy the first to do hiphop,would hiphop be a peurto rican music?You dudes don't want to call it peurto rican AND black music now even though you acknowledge it started with black and brown contributors.

Bbbbbut it was created by a white man

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Christmas is rooted in shyt that took place in the middle east, is the way we celebrate Christmas Arabic culture?

the commercial holiday that we celebrate called x-mas, is more pagan european than anything from the middle east

There's probably not a single American food dish that doesn't originate from something else, is there no American food?

there are various american foods but they come from specific ethnic groups

Imo it's all about how shyt evolves,

with music and dance, it's easy to go straight to the roots and the specific traits of those roots

we can't be specific and say that hiphop is Island immigrants from NY culture just cause they started what we now know as hiphop. Mad American born brehs from across the nation done shaped it into what we know it as.

hiphop grew out of southern afram (dance, music, speech-slang-dozens-banter etc.) culture that got urbanized in the north east

 

[Harry B]

the commercial holiday that we celebrate called x-mas, is more pagan european than anything from the middle east






there are various american foods but they come from specific ethnic groups



with music and dance, it's easy to go straight to the roots and the specific traits of those roots



hiphop grew out of southern afram (dance, music, speech-slang-dozens-banter etc.) culture that got urbanized in the north east

See, "the one we celebrate", we got it from someone who got it from someone who got it from someone. But along the line it got adjusted at every stop.
Go to the wikipedia of any American dish and you'll see that it's a derivative of something else that may or may not have tasted the same.

The cuisine of the Southern United States developed in the traditionally defined American South, influenced by African, English, Scottish, Irish, French, Spanish, and Native American cuisines. Tidewater, Appalachian, Creole, Lowcountry, and Floribbean are examples of types of Southern cuisine. In recent history, elements of Southern cuisine have spread north, having an effect on the development of other types of American cuisine.

With the internet it's easy to trace the roots of everything, you're just one google away. It's obviously just opinions but imo cultures are dynamics they change over time. Sometimes so much that it's (almost) a culture that's separate from the origin. Like say Christmas or metal rock.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

I can't answer that question because many contributed in hiphop making the gains that it did towards becoming black music, all I know is it was black music by the time I started listening to it in the early 90's. But many artist contributed to sound,content,swag,politics,style etc accross multiple regions that went towards making it a black genre. We obviously have to mention the importance of The Message. I wasn't trying to single out Rappers Delight since its not really the first hiphop record anyway,though its probably considered that based on its impact. But songs by black people,do not equal black music in that early of a stage it was too raw and still much euro influence.
Even RUN DMC's first album which is great,as influential as they were among black people,still had too much european influence too, just so you don't think I'm bias against that softer style of rap.

1.So how can you make a definitive statement you cant answer yourself, because you wasnt there....but I was.

Your knowledge base starts at the 90's, whereas mines started after the inception of hip hop..yes Im a old head.

And that European influence..are you referring to Rick Rubin, cuz he didnt even produce on their 1st album..a black man did?

Can you play me European based music from the mid 80's that uses percussion and drums in the same aspect as(Larry Smith)-

Do you consider this a black song since your so stuck on the sound?

Nope. Euro cac created it. Bammatta used the track to create electro-funk..this is nothing similar to 'Good Times' for the fact, Sugarhill used the instrumentation to rap over whereas Bammbatta created a wholly diff track.

Genres of music evolve,all of you acknowledge they evolve,but can't acknowledge they can start out not neccesarily black and evolve into black music.

Can you name these genres and artists body of music that dont start out black, yet evolve TO BE black music?

There was nothing stopping cacs from being able to do hiphop. We could have had an entire genre full of Beastie Boys if blacks weren't so superior at rapping,there was nothing stopping them since it wasn't black music yet. So thats a good place to start lets say it really begin to cement itself as black music right about 86,87 approximately,cemented the fact there could be no genre full of Beastie Boys(KRS,Public Enemy,NWA,Ice-T,Too Short)

There was nothing stopping cacs because they couldnt identify with this NEW style of urban music sweeping across the nation. You forget Hip Hop is a poor mans concept, which they ridiculed and laughed at.

The Beasties where a Punk Rock band that was discovered by Rick Rubin who was also smitten with rap music, this NEW BLACK CULTURE ARISING FROM THE GHETTOS OF AMERICA.

So NOW you got white boys, using BLACK culture to sell their music. Again this was all Rick Rubins doing.

btw Blacks are superior in everything, the reasons why we are the most copied/studied culture in existence.

Doesn't matter what the foundation was,rocks foundation was blues which was black music and we all saw what happened.

OF course the foundation matters, thats where the truth in origin lies.

Rock and Blues, both black created...what happened?

Contribution is not creation. If you cant pinpoint the time reference to where it DIDNT start black, yet wound up black after said time..is a moot point until YOU can back up your own statements..yet you cant in your own words because you didnt start listening to hip hip until the early 90's whereas rap music been prevalent in the terms of hip hop.

listen

Im black artist making new form of music, which I consider black music

Black people dont like it, all other races love it.

Blacks finally come around and accept my music I made for them the whole time.

So because my people dont like my music I make for my people and others do.

Means that it still not my peoples music?

 

[FeloniousMonk]

After rethinking a lil @Benefited got some points.

I think there are more defining parameters though when discussing black creators and the actual genre being created for.

 

[CrushedGroove]

Are you saying something that white people created,could never become black?
Is basketball not a black sport?
Plus if hiphop was influenced by Reggae,how come its not Jamaican music?
Even if it would still be black music,I'm almost 100% sure that as black americans,we would not allow Jamaicans to call hiphop "Jamaican music"
I could be wrong?

The face of basketball is black, we're the best at it, but that doesn't mean we created it. A Jamaican DJ created spinning the breakbeat in hip-hop who happens to be a Black man living in America. Had it been created in Jamaica, it would be considered Jamaican music.

 

[Benefited]

1.So how can you make a definitive statement you cant answer yourself, because you wasnt there....but I was.

Your knowledge base starts at the 90's, whereas mines started after the inception of hip hop..yes Im a old head.

And that European influence..are you referring to Rick Rubin, cuz he didnt even produce on their 1st album..a black man did?

Can you play me European based music from the mid 80's that uses percussion and drums in the same aspect as(Larry Smith)-
[

Nope. Euro cac created it. Bammatta used the track to create electro-funk..this is nothing similar to 'Good Times' for the fact, Sugarhill used the instrumentation to rap over whereas Bammbatta created a wholly diff track.

Can you name these genres and artists body of music that dont start out black, yet evolve TO BE black music?

There was nothing stopping cacs because they couldnt identify with this NEW style of urban music sweeping across the nation. You forget Hip Hop is a poor mans concept, which they ridiculed and laughed at.

The Beasties where a Punk Rock band that was discovered by Rick Rubin who was also smitten with rap music, this NEW BLACK CULTURE ARISING FROM THE GHETTOS OF AMERICA.

So NOW you got white boys, using BLACK culture to sell their music. Again this was all Rick Rubins doing.

btw Blacks are superior in everything, the reasons why we are the most copied/studied culture in existence.

OF course the foundation matters, thats where the truth in origin lies.

Rock and Blues, both black created...what happened?

Contribution is not creation. If you cant pinpoint the time reference to where it DIDNT start black, yet wound up black after said time..is a moot point until YOU can back up your own statements..yet you cant in your own words because you didnt start listening to hip hip until the early 90's whereas rap music been prevalent in the terms of hip hop.

listen

Im black artist making new form of music, which I consider black music

Black people dont like it, all other races love it.

Blacks finally come around and accept my music I made for them the whole time.

So because my people dont like my music I make for my people and others do.

Means that it still not my peoples music?

I know Larry Smith produced it,but he was influenced by punk rock among other forms of music. Rubin wasn't the only one smitten by rap,Larry and Run DMC themselves were smitten with Rock and Roll too obviously!. You don't see how those european influences made it easy for a punk rock band along with Rick Rubin to come in and take the game by storm?For Rubin to try to use hiphop as a vehichle for punk rock since that fell through? I don't listen to european music so no I can't show you that,but I hear Rock Influence on the album clearly and thats what they were going for and thats been documented.

If foundation matters why wouldn't you acknowledge that euro beat is the foundation for electro funk?
It would be impossible for me to name the exact moment it became black music,but I think i gave a good estimate and reasoning.
Hiphop had to shake off its european influences before it really became black music and not just youth culture.
Why won't you call it "peurto rican and black music" since you have to acknowledge peurto ricans were there at hiphops inception and contributed?
And no you can't be a one man "black music" breh,if black people are not embracing it collectively you will have to just wait until they do. There would probably be a good reason,just like rap had trouble getting onto black radio early on over rnb. So yes,hiphop would be the first example of a genre that evolved into black music later on. And it makes perfect sense because its the only black genre to start out using music of euro influences as influence like disco/punk rock/rock and roll on some of its biggest most influential records. Other black genres didn't have that issue because they started from other black influences.

 

[Benefited]

The face of basketball is black, we're the best at it, but that doesn't mean we created it. A Jamaican DJ created spinning the breakbeat in hip-hop who happens to be a Black man living in America. Had it been created in Jamaica, it would be considered Jamaican music.

You know this ones a reach right
Are you saying now we have to factor in WHERE it was created
As an african american I take pride in hiphop being black american music.
If he considered himself Jamaican first,as the creator how come he wouldn't have the right to consider it Jamaican music,or jamaicans couldn't have pride in a jamaican creating it,and calling it jamican music?

 

[Bruce LeRoy]

Early rock and role yes,which is why I say as it begin to stray away from blues,the less it became black music. White people wouldn't be able to authentically perform rock and roll if it was black music. Which is why RNB no matter what type of blue eyed soul they get,or how many white rappers they throw at us,rnb and hiphop is still black music til this day,though I see underhanded white supremacy tactics being used to try to change that. Starting with latinos performing black music in latino form to make the change more gradual,only to slide whites in to replace the latinos. But I'm not all that worried,we have control over the intellectual property which is the content,the swag,the culture.

Rock has not strayed away from the blues.... Regardless of the sub genre( grunge, metal, whatever) you can still hear the blues in most rock music today. Rock critics just dont call it the blues, theyll label it "emo" or some bullshyt... You even have bands like the white stripes, the black keys, etc that outright incorporporate a blues sound in most of their songs.

Whites taking over rock and blacks moving away from it has little to do with it straying from its more traditional sound and more to do with racism...RnB has "strayed"from it' sound but still has a large black following.

 

[CrushedGroove]

You know this ones a reach right
Are you saying now we have to factor in WHERE it was created
As an african american I take pride in hiphop being black american music.
If he considered himself Jamaican first,as the creator how come he wouldn't have the right to consider it Jamaican music,or jamaicans couldn't have pride in a jamaican creating it,and calling it jamican music?

Nah, I meant he came up as a Black American whose roots are Jamaican. Like there's a cat in Alief (SW H-Town) who raps and he grew up here but his parents are Nigerian. If he was the first rapper it would still be Black American because that's his experience, not growing up in Nigeria.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

See, "the one we celebrate", we got it from someone who got it from someone who got it from someone. But along the line it got adjusted at every stop.
Go to the wikipedia of any American dish and you'll see that it's a derivative of something else that may or may not have tasted the same.

american dishes can be traced to specific ethnic groups in america.

With the internet it's easy to trace the roots of everything, you're just one google away. It's obviously just opinions but imo cultures are dynamics they change over time. Sometimes so much that it's (almost) a culture that's separate from the origin. Like say Christmas or metal rock.

it's easier to place and see/hear musical origins vs something like x-mas which is to some degree tied to a religion/european pagan practices that were later imposed on outsiders.