Do black creators neccessarily make a genre black?I say no,some say yes.

[Benefited]

I had this debate with posters in another thread,who told me house music was black music because it was created by black people.
My argument to them was that it thrived in shared spaces with gays and europeans,and was also pioneered by homosexuals. And most importantly didn't really cater to black people as a whole,so no its not black music jsut because it had black creators,and rightfully it was and remains rejected as such for blacker genres.

I have the same feeling about Rock N Roll,at a certain point it was no longer black music. It came from blues that was black music,and stopped being black music and thats how white people were able to take it over.

Early hiphop wasn't black music,Rappers Delight "hip hop a hip hip hibby to the hip hip hop" was not black music,it was disco with nikkas rhyming on it,but it morphed into black music.

White people can't take over black music!This doesn't negate the credit those black creators should get. But it also doesn't make the genre black based on that.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

Yes.

Doesnt matter what it 'warped' into or who liked it more.

What matters are the origins.

 

[Detroit Wave]

House is black. Negged.

 

[Henri Christophe]

If its black created or black owned.... Its BLACK now.


I take pride in that.

 

[King Jove]

white people ruined all the genres you just named.

they took the soul and groove out of house and turned it into bland boring unce unce unce music.

once white people strayed further and further from the blues based foundation of rock is when it started getting trash. that's why the greatest rock bands of all time were all influenced by black blues musicians

white people don't innovate or reinvent black arts to make it better than before, they strip it of what makes it exceptional and water it down to accommodate their rhythmless ears.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

Early hiphop wasn't black music,Rappers Delight "hip hop a hip hip hibby to the hip hip hop" was not black music,it was disco with nikkas rhyming on it,but it morphed into black music.

White people can't take over black music!This doesn't negate the credit those black creators should get. But it also doesn't make the genre black based on that.

Rappers Delight="Good Times"

Good Times=Chic

Chic=Niles Rodgers

Niles Rodgers=Black

You may want to rethink your argument with using said example as to why early hip hop wasnt black music, when the song used was produced by a black group.

 

[Benefited]

white people ruined all the genres you just named.

they took the soul and groove out of house and turned it into bland boring unce unce unce music.

one white people strayed further and further from the blues based foundation of rock is when it started getting trash. that's why the greatest rock bands of all time were all influenced by black blues musicians

white people innovate or reinvent black arts to make it better than before, they strip it of what makes it exceptional and water it down to accommodate their rhythmless ears.

I would argue blacks strayed further from the blues based foundation which created rock and roll which didn't specefically cater to black people,which left an opening for white people. So there was a point where black people caused rock n roll to no longer be black music.

Rappers Delight="Good Times"

Good Times=Chic

Chic=Niles Rodgers

Niles Rodgers=Black

You may want to rethink your argument with using said example as to why early hip hop wasnt black music, when the song used was produced by a black group.

Thats the whole point of this thread is that a song produced by a black group doesn't mean its black music. Freak Out is very much on the fence outside of certain moments hearing the band. So no,I reject that point because that song isn't catered to black people either.

"See I am Wonder Mike and I'd like to say "hello"
To the black, to the white, the red and the brown, the purple and yellow"

even says it right there in the lyrics,hiphop wasn't black music yet until it begin to cater to black people and became defiantley black. It's definitely black music today,not everybodys music,not black and latino music,its black music.
To me Rock N Roll was what happens when you stray to far from your roots,and take too much of the soul and cultural specefics out of a genre.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

I would argue blacks strayed further from the blues based foundation which created rock and roll which didn't specefically cater to black people,which left an opening for white people. So there was a point where black people caused rock n roll to no longer be black music.

If I create a particular sound..and Im black, yet black people dont like it or adhere to it doesnt make it any LESS black music.

Thats the whole point of this thread is that a song produced by a black group doesn't mean its black music. Freak Out is very much on the fence outside of certain moments hearing the band. So no,I reject that point because that song isn't catered to black people either.

"See I am Wonder Mike and I'd like to say "hello"
To the black, to the white, the red and the brown, the purple and yellow"

Its about the sound and genre, not the lyrics.

You may be mixing on context and content along with genres.

even says it right there in the lyrics,hiphop wasn't black music yet until it begin to cater to black people and became defiantley black. It's definitely black music today,not everybodys music,not black and latino music,its black music.
To me Rock N Roll was what happens when you stray to far from your roots,and take too much of the soul and cultural specefics out of a genre.

Okay 1.

Other than blacks, what other nationalities in America made a impact where rapping for it not to be considered 'black music'?

And if this so, why wherent these other nationalities given record deals/exposure in comparison to AfAms, if it wasnt just 'black music'?


2.The lyrics in that particular song had nothing to do with black music compared to being a clever lyric as to not alienate a particular market who already had the notion that hip hop was a fad.

 

[King Jove]

I would argue blacks strayed further from the blues based foundation which created rock and roll which didn't specefically cater to black people,which left an opening for white people. So there was a point where black people caused rock n roll to no longer be black music.

early rock was just sped up blues.

early rock n roll definitely catered to black people.

the opening for white people simply came from white people blatantly stealing from black people and pushing them out of their own genre through white supremacy..

 

[Danktoker94]

I had this debate with posters in another thread,who told me house music was black music because it was created by black people.
My argument to them was that it thrived in shared spaces with gays and europeans,and was also pioneered by homosexuals. And most importantly didn't really cater to black people as a whole,so no its not black music jsut because it had black creators,and rightfully it was and remains rejected as such for blacker genres.

I have the same feeling about Rock N Roll,at a certain point it was no longer black music. It came from blues that was black music,and stopped being black music and thats how white people were able to take it over.

Early hiphop wasn't black music,Rappers Delight "hip hop a hip hip hibby to the hip hip hop" was not black music,it was disco with nikkas rhyming on it,but it morphed into black music.

White people can't take over black music!This doesn't negate the credit those black creators should get. But it also doesn't make the genre black based on that.

Negged

 

[CrushedGroove]

A creation must be attributed to the creator, regardless who the creator intended the audience to be. A creation comes from a person's spirit, which is in tuned with his/her people. The mind just packages it in a way for it to be received by others.

 

[Benefited]

If I create a particular sound..and Im black, yet black people dont like it or adhere to it doesnt make it any LESS black music.




Its about the sound and genre, not the lyrics.

You may be mixing on context and content along with genres.

Okay 1.

Other than blacks, what other nationalities in America made a impact where rapping for it not to be considered 'black music'?

And if this so, why wherent these other nationalities given record deals/exposure in comparison to AfAms, if it wasnt just 'black music'?


2.The lyrics in that particular song had nothing to do with black music compared to being a clever lyric as to not alienate a particular market who already had the notion that hip hop was a fad.

Content DEFINES a genre,in hiphop alone we have sub genres just because the content is different. So pretending the content doesn't matter and its only about the sound?I don't like that. And yes if black people don't like the genre of music you created it makes it less black music,you can't be a one man black music. It wouldn't make you any less of the creator of the genre and you should get your credit for whatever genre that is.

And I didn't say hiphop isn't black music if thats what you are asking? I'm saying Rappers Delight is not black music,and I wouldn't consider hiphop black music fully until the content and sound made it that way.

 

[KneeGrow.]

Content DEFINES a genre,in hiphop alone we have sub genres just because the content is different. So pretending the content doesn't matter and its only about the sound?I don't like that. And yes if black people don't like the genre of music you created it makes it less black music,you can't be a one man black music. It wouldn't make you any less of the creator of the genre and you should get your credit for whatever genre that is.

And I didn't say hiphop isn't black music if thats what you are asking? I'm saying Rappers Delight is not black music,and I wouldn't consider hiphop black music fully until the content and sound made it that way.

What is it about certain content that would make it quintessentially "black"? Could a non black person make that same content and it still be considered "black"?

 

[087532652350]

house music is black. techno is too. they're genres that are part of a long lineage of black american music. of course they both take influence from white music and were usually not made with one specific group in mind, but black america was the context in which they originated and it's important to acknowledge that.

 

[Benefited]

early rock was just sped up blues.

early rock n roll definitely catered to black people.

the opening for white people simply came from white people blatantly stealing from black people and pushing them out of their own genre through white supremacy..

Early rock and role yes,which is why I say as it begin to stray away from blues,the less it became black music. White people wouldn't be able to authentically perform rock and roll if it was black music. Which is why RNB no matter what type of blue eyed soul they get,or how many white rappers they throw at us,rnb and hiphop is still black music til this day,though I see underhanded white supremacy tactics being used to try to change that. Starting with latinos performing black music in latino form to make the change more gradual,only to slide whites in to replace the latinos. But I'm not all that worried,we have control over the intellectual property which is the content,the swag,the culture.