"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread
- Thread starter DPresidential
- Start date
Why are these corny Boston fans hating on Kemba? 
I can understand if he was a annoying smart-dumb weirdo like Kyrie, but he's a beloved teammate and stand-up guy. He's looked awful recently, but I need a bigger sample size before I completely bury him.
I can understand if he was a annoying smart-dumb weirdo like Kyrie, but he's a beloved teammate and stand-up guy. He's looked awful recently, but I need a bigger sample size before I completely bury him.
storyteller
Superstar
Why are these corny Boston fans hating on Kemba?
I can understand if he was a annoying smart-dumb weirdo like Kyrie, but he's a beloved teammate and stand-up guy. He's looked awful recently, but I need a bigger sample size before I completely bury him.
He didn't do wrong by that franchise at all either. Just a corny fanbase living up to their reputation.
Obi Toppin, Julius Randle on the court together? Playing time for Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride and Kevin Knox?
By Fred Katz 4h ago
9
You had more questions about the New York Knicks, and I have more answers.
If you missed Part 1 of the mailbag, you can read it here.
Here is Part 2:
Thibs is showing a lot of flexibility and responsiveness with his shifting of personnel. He’s going with the hot hand, sitting starters if it’s not working, not burying anyone. Most of all, the offensive shot profile is drastically different than his previous teams. Is it time to bury the narrative that he’s stuck in his ways and not flexible? — Bryson B.
Possibly? Can you slice up the narrative into tiny pieces and bury only some of them?
I think he’s always believed in going with hot hands to close games, though the recent loss to the Bucks when he left the first unit on the bench for the entire fourth quarter, showed quite an extreme version of the philosophy. He’s always contested that who closes is more important than who starts.
But let’s talk scoring.
I’m sure some Knicks fans don’t want to hear this after Wednesday’s heartbreaker, but there are positives to look at right now; namely, the offense. We can get all romantic about beautiful basketball and moralizing style and 3s versus the midrange, but instead, let’s go to the facts.
The Knicks are fifth in points per possession right now. No matter how many stints they’ve had where the offense has looked befuddled, they are scoring at elite levels this season. And a major reason for that is the 3-pointer, something Thibodeau teams have never leaned on — until now.
I’ve wondered the same as you, Bryson, since the start of training camp, and I’m not entirely sure how to answer one essential question: why?
Why now? Why this group? What happened?
This is Thibodeau’s 10th season as a head coach and never before has one of his teams finished in the top half of the league in 3-point attempt rate. Yet, these Knicks are ninth; 43 percent of their shots are from deep. And it’s no accident.
I asked Thibodeau earlier in the season if he’d had any sort of philosophical change about the 3 ball. Nine years of seldom 3s is not exactly a small sample to assume a coach isn’t as 3-point happy as your average one. This season, something had to be different.
Yet, he said nothing was, that he always played to the strengths of his personnel. The Knicks employed a bunch of 3-point shooters now, so they’d take a bunch of 3s. Simple.
I’m sure there is some truth to that answer, but it can’t be the full story, if only because Thibodeau was the one putting together the roster when he was president of basketball operations in Minnesota. If he wanted to coach a more 3-point-reliant team, then he would have acquired more 3-point-reliant players. During both full seasons he was with the Timberwolves, the group finished dead last in the NBA in 3-point attempt rate.
So, Bryson — you ask a fascinating but, for now, unanswerable question. Do I think he’s changed? Yes, I do. But I don’t know the motivation behind it, and that’s the most interesting part.
What does New York lose when Obi (Toppin) and Julius (Randle) share the court? — @LucasGimbel on Twitter
A perfect side-by-side: from Thibodeau’s evolution to his core beliefs. He wants to prevent any opponent from getting into the paint, however, he can do it.
That means keeping a rim protector on the floor for as long as he can or at least playing a defender who can make a positional impact around the basket. It’s why you see conventional centers out there most of the time: Nerlens Noel, Mitchell Robinson or Taj Gibson. And that’s why there are only a few examples of a Toppin-Randle frontcourt. Neither will swat shots or deter infiltrators from attacking the hoop.
But he’s running those two together far more often than he did a season ago. In 2020-21, Toppin and Randle were on the floor for only 85 possessions all season, according to Cleaning the Glass. So far this season, they’ve played together for 64.
We drafted (Quentin) Grimes and (Miles) McBride in part because they were more pro-ready than some higher ceiling prospects in those spots. We’re a very deep team when healthy, leaving them no room to play. But it feels like we could use their defensive intensity some nights since RJ is our only above-average wing or guard defender in the rotation. What are the odds either play real minutes without a veteran injury? — Alan S.
They seem low. Each has received a Frank Ntilikina five-seconds moment when Thibodeau inserts a defensive-minded reserve into the game to guard the last possession of a quarter. But that’s it.
No rotation minutes. At least, not yet.
As for “NBA-ready,” I’m not so sure Thibodeau is a huge fan of describing rookies that way. I’ll reach back to something he said in training camp about Toppin, who also had that “NBA-ready” descriptor slapped on him before the Knicks drafted him. Toppin got off to a slow start during his first pro season, then turned it on a little more after the break and into the playoffs.
By Fred Katz 4h ago
You had more questions about the New York Knicks, and I have more answers.
If you missed Part 1 of the mailbag, you can read it here.
Here is Part 2:
Thibs is showing a lot of flexibility and responsiveness with his shifting of personnel. He’s going with the hot hand, sitting starters if it’s not working, not burying anyone. Most of all, the offensive shot profile is drastically different than his previous teams. Is it time to bury the narrative that he’s stuck in his ways and not flexible? — Bryson B.
Possibly? Can you slice up the narrative into tiny pieces and bury only some of them?
I think he’s always believed in going with hot hands to close games, though the recent loss to the Bucks when he left the first unit on the bench for the entire fourth quarter, showed quite an extreme version of the philosophy. He’s always contested that who closes is more important than who starts.
But let’s talk scoring.
I’m sure some Knicks fans don’t want to hear this after Wednesday’s heartbreaker, but there are positives to look at right now; namely, the offense. We can get all romantic about beautiful basketball and moralizing style and 3s versus the midrange, but instead, let’s go to the facts.
The Knicks are fifth in points per possession right now. No matter how many stints they’ve had where the offense has looked befuddled, they are scoring at elite levels this season. And a major reason for that is the 3-pointer, something Thibodeau teams have never leaned on — until now.
I’ve wondered the same as you, Bryson, since the start of training camp, and I’m not entirely sure how to answer one essential question: why?
Why now? Why this group? What happened?
This is Thibodeau’s 10th season as a head coach and never before has one of his teams finished in the top half of the league in 3-point attempt rate. Yet, these Knicks are ninth; 43 percent of their shots are from deep. And it’s no accident.
I asked Thibodeau earlier in the season if he’d had any sort of philosophical change about the 3 ball. Nine years of seldom 3s is not exactly a small sample to assume a coach isn’t as 3-point happy as your average one. This season, something had to be different.
Yet, he said nothing was, that he always played to the strengths of his personnel. The Knicks employed a bunch of 3-point shooters now, so they’d take a bunch of 3s. Simple.
I’m sure there is some truth to that answer, but it can’t be the full story, if only because Thibodeau was the one putting together the roster when he was president of basketball operations in Minnesota. If he wanted to coach a more 3-point-reliant team, then he would have acquired more 3-point-reliant players. During both full seasons he was with the Timberwolves, the group finished dead last in the NBA in 3-point attempt rate.
So, Bryson — you ask a fascinating but, for now, unanswerable question. Do I think he’s changed? Yes, I do. But I don’t know the motivation behind it, and that’s the most interesting part.
What does New York lose when Obi (Toppin) and Julius (Randle) share the court? — @LucasGimbel on Twitter
A perfect side-by-side: from Thibodeau’s evolution to his core beliefs. He wants to prevent any opponent from getting into the paint, however, he can do it.
That means keeping a rim protector on the floor for as long as he can or at least playing a defender who can make a positional impact around the basket. It’s why you see conventional centers out there most of the time: Nerlens Noel, Mitchell Robinson or Taj Gibson. And that’s why there are only a few examples of a Toppin-Randle frontcourt. Neither will swat shots or deter infiltrators from attacking the hoop.
But he’s running those two together far more often than he did a season ago. In 2020-21, Toppin and Randle were on the floor for only 85 possessions all season, according to Cleaning the Glass. So far this season, they’ve played together for 64.
We drafted (Quentin) Grimes and (Miles) McBride in part because they were more pro-ready than some higher ceiling prospects in those spots. We’re a very deep team when healthy, leaving them no room to play. But it feels like we could use their defensive intensity some nights since RJ is our only above-average wing or guard defender in the rotation. What are the odds either play real minutes without a veteran injury? — Alan S.
They seem low. Each has received a Frank Ntilikina five-seconds moment when Thibodeau inserts a defensive-minded reserve into the game to guard the last possession of a quarter. But that’s it.
No rotation minutes. At least, not yet.
As for “NBA-ready,” I’m not so sure Thibodeau is a huge fan of describing rookies that way. I’ll reach back to something he said in training camp about Toppin, who also had that “NBA-ready” descriptor slapped on him before the Knicks drafted him. Toppin got off to a slow start during his first pro season, then turned it on a little more after the break and into the playoffs.
Was that surprising to Thibodeau, considering his age and refined game coming out of Dayton?
“I never quite understood that part of it, of ‘he’s an older rookie,’ ” Thibodeau said. “You’re comparing him to a guy who is one year in college and coming in, but he’s still young and it’s new. It’s like anyone doing something for the first time. There’s going to be a learning curve to it. Trial and error, it’s a big part of learning. I think coming into the league and understanding the differences between college and the pros, the rule-change differences, the players in the league, the teams in the league — that takes time.
“Some guys get it faster than others. But there’s a number of guys that when you look at their careers, they start slowly and they continue to get better. I look at a guy like Draymond (Green) and Jimmy Butler. Those guys came in and they were older rookies and they turned out pretty good. Even if the guy is an older rookie coming in, at the end of his rookie-scale contract he’s heading into his prime. That’s good to me.”
Based on that logic, I doubt Thibodeau feels obligated to play either of the Knicks’ 2021 draft picks. If one were to crack the rotation because of merit, not injuries, I’d guess it were Grimes over McBride. One aspect that does not appear NBA-ready is McBride’s jumper. Grimes’ is silky.
It takes time, though, for defensive-minded rookies to learn how to contribute to winning. They can play hard, but there’s no aspect to good defense more important than positioning, understanding other teams’ plays, rotating in line with your teammates. Rookies, even the best of them, take time to learn that.
Now, the Knicks’ defense is off to a reckless start of its own, 26th in points allowed per possession heading into Friday’s games. Maybe one day, amidst a blowout, Thibodeau gives Grimes two quarters to show what he can do and the 21-year-old plays well enough to earn another chance. Or the coach could get frustrated enough with the defense that he figures any change is better than none at all.
But that’s not how Thibodeau usually operates. He’s meticulous. He’s consistent in his beliefs and his rotations. He believes development can occur during practice, not just games. He usually won’t rush rookies onto the court, especially with a team that’s trying to win now. Immanuel Quickley was the exception, not the rule. His definition of NBA-ready is not most other people’s.
Are reporters ever going to be allowed back into the locker rooms? — Guillaume H.
I hope so. Your average story is so much shallower since the pandemic hit. Pre-pandemic, when I was covering the Wizards and before that the Thunder, the vast majority of interactions I had with players, coaches or anyone else in the league were away from a news conference or scrum, just casual, what’s-going-on, life-type conversations. There’s nothing more essential to a reporter than getting to know the people you cover.
Do you think there’s any chance they give Kevin Knox another look before they inevitably let him go in the offseason? He did shoot almost 40 percent from 3 last season and I’m curious if he has a “last chance saloon” type of comeback? Do you think Thibs has completely given up on Knox as a player? I mean no one can deny the talent is there, we just need him to play like he has a pulse. … I have resigned myself to the fact that he will go somewhere next year like Indiana or San Antonio or Miami and end up making second team all NBA. — Babar A.
I’ll say this much: there’s no sign that Knox is on the cusp.
If Knox had a chance to get into the rotation without any injuries forcing him there, it would be because of his shooting. He made 39 percent of his 3s last season, and it’s not even that he hits an acceptable amount of them; he also has no problem taking them. Swing him the ball to him in the corner and there’s a decent chance you’ll see that rainbow arc of a jumper every time. There’s value in that.
The Knicks are pumping up their 3-point numbers. And you’re right, there is a world where Knox can help with that even more. But I don’t see it happening.
If they wanted shooting, they might be more inclined to play Grimes, a superior defender. Grimes is a wing, too; the Knicks don’t have many of those. Instead, they’re more a mashup of big men and guards. Grimes has more upside, as well. The Knicks can’t say for sure what he’ll become. They already know Knox.
Knox is behind too many players in Thibodeau’s rotation. The Knicks are deep. I put out a call for mailbag questions and seemingly every other email is about if Toppin can receive more playing time. Well, he and Knox are at the same position. And it’s not like Knox and Toppin would fill the role in different enough ways to justify using Knox in specific matchups.
Thibodeau has limited Toppin’s role in part because he doesn’t guard the rim like Noel, Robinson and Gibson can. But at least Toppin is an energetic defender, even if he has his flaws. Defense, meanwhile, has been an even bigger problem for Knox.
Could injuries force Knox’s way into the rotation at some point? Of course, but that stuff is unpredictable. And for now, there isn’t a clear avenue for him to play.
“I never quite understood that part of it, of ‘he’s an older rookie,’ ” Thibodeau said. “You’re comparing him to a guy who is one year in college and coming in, but he’s still young and it’s new. It’s like anyone doing something for the first time. There’s going to be a learning curve to it. Trial and error, it’s a big part of learning. I think coming into the league and understanding the differences between college and the pros, the rule-change differences, the players in the league, the teams in the league — that takes time.
“Some guys get it faster than others. But there’s a number of guys that when you look at their careers, they start slowly and they continue to get better. I look at a guy like Draymond (Green) and Jimmy Butler. Those guys came in and they were older rookies and they turned out pretty good. Even if the guy is an older rookie coming in, at the end of his rookie-scale contract he’s heading into his prime. That’s good to me.”
Based on that logic, I doubt Thibodeau feels obligated to play either of the Knicks’ 2021 draft picks. If one were to crack the rotation because of merit, not injuries, I’d guess it were Grimes over McBride. One aspect that does not appear NBA-ready is McBride’s jumper. Grimes’ is silky.
It takes time, though, for defensive-minded rookies to learn how to contribute to winning. They can play hard, but there’s no aspect to good defense more important than positioning, understanding other teams’ plays, rotating in line with your teammates. Rookies, even the best of them, take time to learn that.
Now, the Knicks’ defense is off to a reckless start of its own, 26th in points allowed per possession heading into Friday’s games. Maybe one day, amidst a blowout, Thibodeau gives Grimes two quarters to show what he can do and the 21-year-old plays well enough to earn another chance. Or the coach could get frustrated enough with the defense that he figures any change is better than none at all.
But that’s not how Thibodeau usually operates. He’s meticulous. He’s consistent in his beliefs and his rotations. He believes development can occur during practice, not just games. He usually won’t rush rookies onto the court, especially with a team that’s trying to win now. Immanuel Quickley was the exception, not the rule. His definition of NBA-ready is not most other people’s.
Are reporters ever going to be allowed back into the locker rooms? — Guillaume H.
I hope so. Your average story is so much shallower since the pandemic hit. Pre-pandemic, when I was covering the Wizards and before that the Thunder, the vast majority of interactions I had with players, coaches or anyone else in the league were away from a news conference or scrum, just casual, what’s-going-on, life-type conversations. There’s nothing more essential to a reporter than getting to know the people you cover.
Do you think there’s any chance they give Kevin Knox another look before they inevitably let him go in the offseason? He did shoot almost 40 percent from 3 last season and I’m curious if he has a “last chance saloon” type of comeback? Do you think Thibs has completely given up on Knox as a player? I mean no one can deny the talent is there, we just need him to play like he has a pulse. … I have resigned myself to the fact that he will go somewhere next year like Indiana or San Antonio or Miami and end up making second team all NBA. — Babar A.
I’ll say this much: there’s no sign that Knox is on the cusp.
If Knox had a chance to get into the rotation without any injuries forcing him there, it would be because of his shooting. He made 39 percent of his 3s last season, and it’s not even that he hits an acceptable amount of them; he also has no problem taking them. Swing him the ball to him in the corner and there’s a decent chance you’ll see that rainbow arc of a jumper every time. There’s value in that.
The Knicks are pumping up their 3-point numbers. And you’re right, there is a world where Knox can help with that even more. But I don’t see it happening.
If they wanted shooting, they might be more inclined to play Grimes, a superior defender. Grimes is a wing, too; the Knicks don’t have many of those. Instead, they’re more a mashup of big men and guards. Grimes has more upside, as well. The Knicks can’t say for sure what he’ll become. They already know Knox.
Knox is behind too many players in Thibodeau’s rotation. The Knicks are deep. I put out a call for mailbag questions and seemingly every other email is about if Toppin can receive more playing time. Well, he and Knox are at the same position. And it’s not like Knox and Toppin would fill the role in different enough ways to justify using Knox in specific matchups.
Thibodeau has limited Toppin’s role in part because he doesn’t guard the rim like Noel, Robinson and Gibson can. But at least Toppin is an energetic defender, even if he has his flaws. Defense, meanwhile, has been an even bigger problem for Knox.
Could injuries force Knox’s way into the rotation at some point? Of course, but that stuff is unpredictable. And for now, there isn’t a clear avenue for him to play.
Obi Toppin, Julius Randle on the court together? Playing time for Quentin Grimes, Miles McBride and Kevin Knox? – The Athletic
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Here we go
g-ice
aka #DiamondNightmare
So how we going to lose this one brehs? 
g-ice
aka #DiamondNightmare
OG Hornets court 
Alright 40
It’s hideousOG Hornets court
g-ice
aka #DiamondNightmare
It’s hideous
Nah, you wildin’
g-ice
aka #DiamondNightmare
Oh look at that Furniture and Kemba knocking down their shots.
That’s a good sign Kemba with back to back threes
PIFF101
Bring back the Golden Era
Kemba cookin