"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

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Isaiah Hartenstein’s education is complete, and now he gets to show Knicks his talents​

ORLANDO, FL - JANUARY 26: Isaiah Hartenstein #55 of the LA Clippers passes the ball during the game against the Orlando Magic on January 26, 2022 at Amway Center in Orlando, Florida. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and or using this photograph, User is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. Mandatory Copyright Notice: Copyright 2022 NBAE (Photo by Fernando Medina/NBAE via Getty Images)

By Fred Katz
Oct 4, 2022

The New York Knicks’ new backup center has completed his schooling.

He studied under renowned basketball academic Chris Paul in Houston. There, he learned the art of film study. Paul is a hooping genius. The young big man stuck close to him to absorb it.

He apprenticed passing extraordinaire Nikola Jokic in Denver, where the budding pupil barely played. There, he learned the power of vision. Jokic is in touch with his third eye. He bends defenses before firing passes, almost as if he’s mastered mind control.

He researched with Clint Capela, a former Rockets center who could defend inside or away from the paint. From him, he learned the craft of versatility. He and Capela would have running conversations about switching on the perimeter, one of Capela’s strong suits.

Isaiah Hartenstein has been around, and his studies have brought him to places he’s been only in spirit.

He knew he had to become a better defender, so he uncovered video of Golden State Warriors stalwart Draymond Green, the greatest team defender of his generation. He specifically searched for what makes Green so apt when the former NBA Defensive Player of the Year has to switch to smaller opponents.

Hartenstein has a list of favorite all-time passers. His former sensei, Jokic, tops it. Green is on it, as well. He thinks Warriors center Andrew Bogut, at the start of their dynasty, deserved more dishing respect.

And now Hartenstein is here, in New York, where he enters with greater expectations than have ever met him during his five-year professional career.

Greater than when he entered the league in Houston as a seldom-used second-round pick; greater than when he barely played in Denver or joined the Cleveland Cavaliers as a late-season addition on a losing squad; greater than even when he began last season with the L.A. Clippers, who eventually turned him into the nucleus of their bench unit but started him off as a mere training-camp invitee.

Hartenstein, 24, signed a two-year, $16 million contract with the Knicks at the start of free agency. Tuesday night, when the Knicks kick off the preseason against the Detroit Pistons, he will get to show off his artfulness for the first time in front of the Madison Square Garden crowd.

When he does, chances are he’ll help run the second unit’s half-court offense.

There’s a concept Knicks fans are trying to grasp right now with young up-and-comers Obi Toppin and Immanuel Quickley: How real is late-season improvement when it happens on a dwindling team? Toppin and Quickley balled out last spring, but the spike occurred during meaningless basketball for a squad already eliminated from playoff contention.

A similar question surrounded Hartenstein last summer.

The Cavaliers used him to facilitate offense during his short stint in Cleveland a couple of years ago. But he wasn’t with them for long, and by the time he arrived, the Cavs’ chance at finishing inside the top eight was long gone. While he was there, though, he thrived.

The stuff that earned Hartenstein praise with the Clippers in 2022 — the passing, the headiness, the sneakily improved paint defense — began the season prior in Cleveland. But outsiders couldn’t tell whether his leap was material or if it was a blip when no one was watching.

Hartenstein believed his impressive passing during only 16 games with Cleveland was legitimate. He declined a player option and hit the open market the following offseason. Teams, of course, were more questionable. He ended up with only that training-camp invite to Clippers preseason.

But he made the team. He climbed into the second unit. By midseason, he was running the thing. Clippers coach Ty Lue turned him into a de facto initiator. At times, Hartenstein looks like he’s doing a Jokic impression, especially the way he weaponizes his eyes. He’ll peer in one direction to arch a defense, then fling to a slicing cutter on the other side.

“(Jokic) just taught me there’s certain aspects where you look more at the defender,” Hartenstein said. “You think you can’t get it there but if the defender is looking at the offensive player, he’s not looking at the ball. So sometimes I can get the pass through because the defender is not looking at it. (I’m) just looking people off with my eyes.”

So far in training camp, the student is becoming the teacher.

The Knicks, as every other team does, match the starters against the reserves when they scrimmage. And Hartenstein is already getting familiar with the rest of the bench.

Last week, he approached Toppin on the sidelines.

“Just look for (the pass),” he told Toppin. “It might be late. It might be early. Just always know I might pass it.”

Hartenstein is particularly adept at the type of dish that’s Toppin’s favorite cut, the one when the springy forward is in the corner, notices his defender falling asleep and darts down the baseline hoping for a bounce pass or, even more fun, a lob.

“You always wanna keep your eye on the person with the ball, because no matter what, if you’re cutting to the basket, that close to the basket, you’re gonna get the pass,” Toppin said. “You gotta go right up with it. So, he’s great at finding us.”

Hartenstein assisted on 19 percent of his teammates’ buckets while he was on the floor last season, fifth among NBA centers. Jokic, of course, was first. He creates efficient offense, too. He’ll go into quick dribble-handoffs or fling to a spot-up shooter; 46 percent of his assists were for 3-pointers.

The Knicks are fully aware of the Hartenstein experience. Soon, they will show how they plan to delve into it.

The Clippers used him in the high post to find cutters and shooters. And for all the talk of head coach Tom Thibodeau’s supposed love affair with rim-diving centers, he knows what this is supposed to look like. Thibodeau ties himself to shot blockers, and those player types tend to be paint dwellers on the other end.

Hartenstein is a riff on that role. He’s not a leaper but he’s learned team defense, probably with the help of all that Draymond copycatting. Thibodeau calls him “a better athlete than you realize.” Opponents made only 47.5 percent of layups and dunks when he was the closest defender last season, second best in the NBA, according to data-tracking site Second Spectrum. The advanced rim-protection metrics had “a lot” to do with the Knicks’ interest in him, says Thibodeau.

“That’s critical for us,” the coach said. “You either have to have rim protection or you have to have someone who can step in and take charges at that position.”

With the Knicks, the rim protectors have been the Robinson or Nerlens Noel types, guys who hang around the paint on offense. Hartenstein is a change of pace. Thibodeau has entrusted this archetype before. In 2014, he turned the Chicago Bulls offense over to a center, Joakim Noah, who thrived while facilitating from the high post.

“That is a very good comp,” Thibodeau said. “Their games are different, but their vision, unselfishness, that’s special. It’s a gift.”

The Knicks have other ballhandlers in the second unit. Derrick Rose is returning. Quickley bakes off the dribble. How might they and Hartenstein distribute initiation responsibilities?

Until Tuesday night, this is all theory. That’s when the Knicks get their first real look at how this can work.

“I think the passing makes it where everyone feels good,” Thibodeau said. “That part is very similar and when you have a big that can do those types of things it opens up the floor for everyone, creates space.”
 

storyteller

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That was REFRESHING!
- Jalen Brunson's command over the game is something we just haven't had consistently at starting point guard in forever. Even most of our better PG's like Ray Felton didn't bring that aspect. You can see that his teammates trust him to handle the offense.

- I knew Randle was gonna ball because of his defense. He was getting into a defensive stance and really locked in. We need that to stick and I think a part of that is getting him some isolations. He got his opportunities in this one, but they were spread out to keep the defense from keying him. Lo and behold, it worked out. That version of Randle can have a really good year and would pump the Knicks prospects up a bit.

- The second-half of last season looked like the game slowed down for RJ. It still held for this game. He picked his spots and I loved that he got time with the second-unit youth.

- Mitch was a BEAST defensively. He had 4 stocks in the first 6 minutes and then he didn't tally much statistically but that's because the Pistons started avoiding him. Bojan Bogdanovic was just throwing the ball away when he saw Mitch approach.

- Fournier deserves credit for how he defended too. He was in the passing lanes like crazy...musta had 3 or 4 deflections.

- IQ's the sleeper on this roster. Somehow he always seems like an afterthought but he comes off the bench and feasts. The added weight was obvious with how much his balance is improved.

- Deuce needs minutes...I'm guessing they'll rest Rose more often this year and that will open up opportunities for Deuce.

- Cam didn't look bad but his shot selection is disappointing and he got hurt. If he tightens up those two issues, he's a rotation piece with high upside. But patience runs out for guys after their rookie contract.

- We told yall about Hartenstein...he's gonna be a fan favorite. Imagine developing a defensive scheme to address the unique dangers that Mitch and Hart present...an elite rim runner and a floor-spacer with top-notch passing. I feel like there's a real pick-your-poison element here. Best of all, either way you ain't scoring shyt at the rim.

- Obi's jumper made me sad, but he still did all that other ish he's so damned good at and Hartenstein makes everything more open to do it. There's also a note I took on Obi's rebounding. His positioning and physicality looked really good!

- Full recap coming soon. The recaps got that shout-out on the KFTV show yesterday. It's set to start at that shout out, which I appreciated. Player Ratings start once the season kicks off official.
 

Knicksman20

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That was REFRESHING!
- Jalen Brunson's command over the game is something we just haven't had consistently at starting point guard in forever. Even most of our better PG's like Ray Felton didn't bring that aspect. You can see that his teammates trust him to handle the offense.

- I knew Randle was gonna ball because of his defense. He was getting into a defensive stance and really locked in. We need that to stick and I think a part of that is getting him some isolations. He got his opportunities in this one, but they were spread out to keep the defense from keying him. Lo and behold, it worked out. That version of Randle can have a really good year and would pump the Knicks prospects up a bit.

- The second-half of last season looked like the game slowed down for RJ. It still held for this game. He picked his spots and I loved that he got time with the second-unit youth.

- Mitch was a BEAST defensively. He had 4 stocks in the first 6 minutes and then he didn't tally much statistically but that's because the Pistons started avoiding him. Bojan Bogdanovic was just throwing the ball away when he saw Mitch approach.

- Fournier deserves credit for how he defended too. He was in the passing lanes like crazy...musta had 3 or 4 deflections.

- IQ's the sleeper on this roster. Somehow he always seems like an afterthought but he comes off the bench and feasts. The added weight was obvious with how much his balance is improved.

- Deuce needs minutes...I'm guessing they'll rest Rose more often this year and that will open up opportunities for Deuce.

- Cam didn't look bad but his shot selection is disappointing and he got hurt. If he tightens up those two issues, he's a rotation piece with high upside. But patience runs out for guys after their rookie contract.

- We told yall about Hartenstein...he's gonna be a fan favorite. Imagine developing a defensive scheme to address the unique dangers that Mitch and Hart present...an elite rim runner and a floor-spacer with top-notch passing. I feel like there's a real pick-your-poison element here. Best of all, either way you ain't scoring shyt at the rim.

- Obi's jumper made me sad, but he still did all that other ish he's so damned good at and Hartenstein makes everything more open to do it. There's also a note I took on Obi's rebounding. His positioning and physicality looked really good!

- Full recap coming soon. The recaps got that shout-out on the KFTV show yesterday. It's set to start at that shout out, which I appreciated. Player Ratings start once the season kicks off official.

That was a great shout out to The Coli's own Knicka: "When the Remi's in the system" :lolbron: @DPresidential that could be a great homage thread title for our bro when he makes it big lol

:salute:
 
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Cam plays like he has something to prove, but not in a good way, it's like he's trying to earn minutes by taking tough shots or trying to do something flashy. He'll play the passing lanes way too much and will come down the other end and try a hesi double step-back jimbo or something. I understand why he's doing it, but breh needs to just let the game come to him; hit the open man rather than take the contested shot or drive into the help at the rim. Hit those open threes, rotate and x-out properly, and attack hard close outs, that's all hes gotta do as long as he does those things well. That style of play may not have the instant appeal of creating and hitting tough shots admittedly, but it'll get him his due props over time.

So in short, just do what Grimes did.
 

storyteller

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Cam plays like he has something to prove, but not in a good way, it's like he's trying to earn minutes by taking tough shots or trying to do something flashy. He'll play the passing lanes way too much and will come down the other end and try a hesi double step-back jimbo or something. I understand why he's doing it, but breh needs to just let the game come to him; hit the open man rather than take the contested shot or drive into the help at the rim. Hit those open threes, rotate and x-out properly, and attack hard close outs, that's all hes gotta do as long as he does those things well. That style of play may not have the instant appeal of creating and hitting tough shots admittedly, but it'll get him his due props over time.

So in short, just do what Grimes did.

The crazy thing is that I feel like he calms down and lets the game come to him when RJ is out there.
 
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