"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[firemanBk]

Not even the actual Knicks value IQ as much as you guys do
Why the fukk would they sign Jalen Brunson to $100 million contract if they projected IQ as a starter? He's a bench player

 

[ISO]

Not even the actual Knicks value IQ as much as you guys do
Why the fukk would they sign Jalen Brunson to $100 million contract if they projected IQ as a starter? He's a bench player

IQ been pigeonholed since draft night he and Toppin are two of the most underutilized talents in the league. Hartenstein is one of them too. Perception is a bytch in the league.

 

[storyteller]

He makes some good points.

I agree fully on the Randle tip. The Brunson thing is a reach though. Not because he's fronting about Brunson's agent being Rose's son, but because the Knicks had a lot more reason to go after and pay Brunson.

I also just kinda think the mid-3 shyt is corny. We generally call big-3 for teams that have 3 max-value players. The Knicks haven't given a max contract to anybody. No one is under any illusions about the fact that these guys aren't star players. Knicks fans like Randle less than anybody, Brunson's contract is mid for a starting PG, and RJ's extension is something like 70 million dollars cheaper than the max contracts his peers got in the draft-class. No one's made any claims that this trio is a big three.

Matter of fact, the only difference between NY and a bunch of other Eastern Conference teams is that we're not expecting contention. A lot of other teams have set expectations beyond just a playoff bid, and a few of them will have to be disappointed. Meanwhile, most Knicks fans I talk to would prefer to focus on rookie contract players and essentially tank.

 

[DoubleClutch]

I agree fully on the Randle tip. The Brunson thing is a reach though. Not because he's fronting about Brunson's agent being Rose's son, but because the Knicks had a lot more reason to go after and pay Brunson.

I also just kinda think the mid-3 shyt is corny. We generally call big-3 for teams that have 3 max-value players. The Knicks haven't given a max contract to anybody. No one is under any illusions about the fact that these guys aren't star players. Knicks fans like Randle less than anybody, Brunson's contract is mid for a starting PG, and RJ's extension is something like 70 million dollars cheaper than the max contracts his peers got in the draft-class. No one's made any claims that this trio is a big three.

Matter of fact, the only difference between NY and a bunch of other Eastern Conference teams is that we're not expecting contention. A lot of other teams have set expectations beyond just a playoff bid, and a few of them will have to be disappointed. Meanwhile, most Knicks fans I talk to would prefer to focus on rookie contract players and essentially tank.

Yea Knicks might as well tank for Victor if things look bad early on.

Get rid of Randle and they still got a nice young core (Cam Reddish) to replace him and more than enough other talent to build up

Knicks just aren’t likely going to the playoffs right now so people shouldn’t expect that or the idea of a “big 3”

 

[storyteller]

Yea Knicks might as well tank for Victor if things look bad early on.

Get rid of Randle and they still got a nice young core (Cam Reddish) to replace him and more than enough other talent to build up

Knicks just aren’t likely going to the playoffs right now so people shouldn’t expect that or the idea of a “big 3”

Yeah, I think the Mitchell saga (and to a lesser extent the Ivey and Murray trade talks) kinda pressed Knicks fans into talking about playoffs. With Rose healthy and Brunson in; the play-in game feels like it could happen if things fell a certain way, but even that became daunting as other teams in the East improved.

But people hyping the Knicks with a Mitchell addition may have given the impression that there were bigger expectations. It also turned an otherwise decent offseason into a disappointing one.

Landing the best PG available, re-signing Mitch, Sims and RJ at reasonable prices, adding a nice young big in Hartenstein, and leaving the offseason with more picks than we started isn't a bad way to go. It'd just be a lot better if they'd added Donovan Mitchell or Jaden Ivey...or if they dumped Randle.

 

[Wargames]

Yea Knicks might as well tank for Victor if things look bad early on.

Get rid of Randle and they still got a nice young core (Cam Reddish) to replace him and more than enough other talent to build up

Knicks just aren’t likely going to the playoffs right now so people shouldn’t expect that or the idea of a “big 3”

i actually think they are playoff bound.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much of an unmitigated disaster the 2021 offseason was for them to only win 37 games. They knew they needed a PG because Rose has injury concerns and should have an unofficial minute cap, and they brought in Kemba who unfortunately is cooked. They re-signed all the vets except Payton and Bullock and those two were Randle’s best friends on the roster and he pouted. Rose got injured relatively early and missed the majority of the season. Then the vets they did bring back were injured (Rose, and Noel) or played significantly out of position (Burks). The only vet who came back well was Taj and he was played out of position a lot too at Center. They tried to have Randle initiate more of the offense from the perimeter (maybe the give RJ and Kemba driving lanes…who knows) and him starting the offense further from the basket made it easier for teams to double at the rim. Also Fournier/RJ unlike Bullock/RJ couldn’t hide Randle well enough that he could focus on defending the weakest wing/forward offensive threat which led to him getting cooked.

Plus worst of all that was Thibs stubbornness. A year from COTY and he spent most the season acting like his strict vet heavy rotations were above being questioned. Burks is not a pg but Thibs played him that way. Even when the youth played well, he benched them due to his vet bias.

I honestly think both Randle and Thibs were having tantrums and self sabotaging all season long because they hated the offseason moves that much.

Anyhow all that dysfunction and the Knicks still won 37 games, four games less than .500.

They now got Randle and Thibs Buyin with Brunson. Plus the kids have been doing voluntary workouts or working with personal trainers all off season. Everybody is coming in healthy. They have a PG, and enough centers that they should have 48 minutes of rim protection a night. People say Randle sucks he is still putting 20/10, RJ is inefficient too but that is what a PG is for. A lot of that inefficiency was them having to create for themselves.

So, I have them slotted in to be at least .500 and in the midst of another playoff run. They didn’t get a star this year but they are deeper than most teams and Thibs is going to have to coach to win this year or get fired.

The other teams in the league have always been more talented… The Knicks if working makes the game ugly enough they pull the win out anyway.

 

[DoubleClutch]

i actually think they are playoff bound.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much of an unmitigated disaster the 2021 offseason was for them to only win 37 games. They knew they needed a PG because Rose has injury concerns and should have an unofficial minute cap, and they brought in Kemba who unfortunately is cooked. They re-signed all the vets except Payton and Bullock and those two were Randle’s best friends on the roster and he pouted. Rose got injured relatively early and missed the majority of the season. Then the vets they did bring back were injured (Rose, and Noel) or played significantly out of position (Burks). The only vet who came back well was Taj and he was played out of position a lot too at Center. They tried to have Randle initiate more of the offense from the perimeter (maybe the give RJ and Kemba driving lanes…who knows) and him starting the offense further from the basket made it easier for teams to double at the rim. Also Fournier/RJ unlike Bullock/RJ couldn’t hide Randle well enough that he could focus on defending the weakest wing/forward offensive threat which led to him getting cooked.

Plus worst of all that was Thibs stubbornness. A year from COTY and he spent most the season acting like his strict vet heavy rotations were above being questioned. Burks is not a pg but Thibs played him that way. Even when the youth played well, he benched them due to his vet bias.

I honestly think both Randle and Thibs were having tantrums and self sabotaging all season long because they hated the offseason moves that much.

Anyhow all that dysfunction and the Knicks still won 37 games, four games less than .500.

They now got Randle and Thibs Buyin with Brunson. Plus the kids have been doing voluntary workouts or working with personal trainers all off season. Everybody is coming in healthy. They have a PG, and enough centers that they should have 48 minutes of rim protection a night. People say Randle sucks he is still putting 20/10, RJ is inefficient too but that is what a PG is for. A lot of that inefficiency was them having to create for themselves.

So, I have them slotted in to be at least .500 and in the midst of another playoff run. They didn’t get a star this year but they are deeper than most teams and Thibs is going to have to coach to win this year or get fired.

The other teams in the league have always been more talented… The Knicks if working makes the game ugly enough they pull the win out anyway.

Knicks no doubt have a solid team. They should even be better. But I think other east teams just got a way better and it’ll be competitive.

Knicks just seem to have more average pieces than they can use and not 1 game changer who will take them to the next level. Maybe RJ can be that but I doubt it.

 

[Wargames]

Knicks no doubt have a solid team. They should even be better. But I think other east teams just got a way better and it’ll be competitive.

Knicks just seem to have more average pieces than they can use and not 1 game changer who will take them to the next level. Maybe RJ can be that but I doubt it.

I feel that is a more valid concern come playoff time, but during the regular season they should be good. That depth, and Thibs coaching should have them beat more talented teams enough to get into the playoffs. They’ll maul a lot of lesser teams too.

The added a solid scorer in Brunson who should make Randle’s job easier and have him operate from the wing more. That will allow him to attack and not have to make as many decisions like he did the last two seasons.

Plus 48 minutes of rim protection and solid defenders up and down the roster, and Thibs defensive schemes. The Knicks are not a team other teams are going to want to play because it’s going to be a ugly game.

The Knicks and the Raptors are going to occupy the same space as far as strategy for winning. Atlantic Division games are going to be the most brutal this year.

 

[kej718]

 

[storyteller]

i actually think they are playoff bound.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much of an unmitigated disaster the 2021 offseason was for them to only win 37 games. They knew they needed a PG because Rose has injury concerns and should have an unofficial minute cap, and they brought in Kemba who unfortunately is cooked. They re-signed all the vets except Payton and Bullock and those two were Randle’s best friends on the roster and he pouted. Rose got injured relatively early and missed the majority of the season. Then the vets they did bring back were injured (Rose, and Noel) or played significantly out of position (Burks). The only vet who came back well was Taj and he was played out of position a lot too at Center. They tried to have Randle initiate more of the offense from the perimeter (maybe the give RJ and Kemba driving lanes…who knows) and him starting the offense further from the basket made it easier for teams to double at the rim. Also Fournier/RJ unlike Bullock/RJ couldn’t hide Randle well enough that he could focus on defending the weakest wing/forward offensive threat which led to him getting cooked.

Plus worst of all that was Thibs stubbornness. A year from COTY and he spent most the season acting like his strict vet heavy rotations were above being questioned. Burks is not a pg but Thibs played him that way. Even when the youth played well, he benched them due to his vet bias.

I honestly think both Randle and Thibs were having tantrums and self sabotaging all season long because they hated the offseason moves that much.

Anyhow all that dysfunction and the Knicks still won 37 games, four games less than .500.

They now got Randle and Thibs Buyin with Brunson. Plus the kids have been doing voluntary workouts or working with personal trainers all off season. Everybody is coming in healthy. They have a PG, and enough centers that they should have 48 minutes of rim protection a night. People say Randle sucks he is still putting 20/10, RJ is inefficient too but that is what a PG is for. A lot of that inefficiency was them having to create for themselves.

So, I have them slotted in to be at least .500 and in the midst of another playoff run. They didn’t get a star this year but they are deeper than most teams and Thibs is going to have to coach to win this year or get fired.

The other teams in the league have always been more talented… The Knicks if working makes the game ugly enough they pull the win out anyway.

I think the Knicks will improve a lot, but I think a lot of other teams are improving as well and the East is about to be a dogfight. Health might be the difference between teams that get the 6th spot or the 10th for a play-in. I think we're in play for the 7-10 range, but it's gonna be a tough season for everyone but the contenders in the top 3/4.

To me, that type of parity and the lack of a high ceiling for this roster is enough to prefer a tank. I don't mean chasing losses necessarily, but just playing a young line-up and not stressing if they're losing games. That's the opposite of what Thibs does, but I think it'd be the best path forward for this team. Get into the lottery this year and know what you're doing with IQ and Obi (because it's year three and their minutes are STILL blocked), and take a major swing next offseason.

 

[Wargames]

I think the Knicks will improve a lot, but I think a lot of other teams are improving as well and the East is about to be a dogfight. Health might be the difference between teams that get the 6th spot or the 10th for a play-in. I think we're in play for the 7-10 range, but it's gonna be a tough season for everyone but the contenders in the top 3/4.

To me, that type of parity and the lack of a high ceiling for this roster is enough to prefer a tank. I don't mean chasing losses necessarily, but just playing a young line-up and not stressing if they're losing games. That's the opposite of what Thibs does, but I think it'd be the best path forward for this team. Get into the lottery this year and know what you're doing with IQ and Obi (because it's year three and their minutes are STILL blocked), and take a major swing next offseason.

Dolan will fire Thibs if they don’t make the playoffs. Dolan can’t justify raising the ticket prices without getting shyt on in the newspaper if they don’t make the playoffs.

The way I see it, Thibs is coaching for his job. Plus I think the Knicks pivot from hoarding assets to chase a star because as @ISO said there aren’t many going to available. I see them making a general roster improving trade sooner than later unless the Knicks go on a great winning streak.

 

[OsO]

Look at @Wargames with some optimistic gems... I see you playa

 

[RickyGQ]

Can’t remember where I saw this, but the person said that having all those picks actually hurt us. It’s kinda like when a player is up for a contract extension and wants the max, even if your offer is still above everyone else, that player knows you skimped out on them. Ainge wanted everything we had and we said no. Cavs gave them everything they had.

We might probably be better off making a trade for the robin before trading for the Batman.

 

[ISO]

Health and defense will be crucial that alone will allow Thibs to grind out victories and get us into the playoffs like he did in ‘21 over teams that our perceived as more talented/in spite of “parity”

I think the bench will again outplay the starters consistently

 

[Ironman]

Once again. Shane Larkin, Alex Schved, Lou Amundson, Jared Jefferies. We will be iight yalll relax and enjoy your lives outside of basketball