"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[#1 pick]

I am praying yall get Murray. I don't want Atlanta to sell their future for 1st round exits. Ya'll can have that

 

[#1 pick]

I don't really see it as hurting unless they have to give up a lot to move off Burks or Noel to complete the signing. They swapped late-firsts and moved off 4 second-rounders to dump Kemba. But his contract was the least valuable of the bunch, so I'm hoping the other two are cheap to give away or maybe even bring something back in Burks' case.

The main reason I think they're pushing for Brunson is because it preserves all the picks and youths to make a second move. Here's the first Murray rumor popping up. I really don't think NY's done dealing.

Praying

 

[23Barrettcity]

Brunson is not worth for everything the Knicks have done so far

Whet do you mean ? They actually played this smart . Cleared out redundant players and made cap space and got more first round picks . Now Dallas gonna have to overpay or work out something with us .

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Whet do you mean ? They actually played this smart . Cleared out redundant players and made cap space and got more first round picks . Now Dallas gonna have to overpay or work out something with us .

it's not really an NY thing. it's an NBA thing. Brunson not worth $100M+ or that large of a percentage of the cap because he's not gonna move the needle.

NBA owners are dumb. They overpay for role players when they don't have a #1 option. Brunson's at best a 3rd or 4th option on a good team. NY needs a #1 before they go anywhere.

There's nothing worse than being a 35-45 win team.

 

[storyteller]

it's not really an NY thing. it's an NBA thing. Brunson not worth $100M+ or that large of a percentage of the cap because he's not gonna move the needle.

NBA owners are dumb. They overpay for role players when they don't have a #1 option. Brunson's at best a 3rd or 4th option on a good team. NY needs a #1 before they go anywhere.

There's nothing worse than being a 35-45 win team.

I agree about committing too much cap to an okay second option, quality third option guy. But there are a couple of things to bare in mind:
1. The new tv deal means a cap jump in '24/'25. Teams are gonna start operating with that date in mind. If you can sign guys to deals that stretch past the cap increase dates then they suddenly eat up a lot less of the cap due to that increase.

2. Like you said, this is a league-wide issue and you've gotta pay to keep up. Tyler Herro's projected to make 25 million per fam. Brunson's contract at 27.5 per year would make him the 45th highest-paid player in the league (and that's before any other contracts are signed that might push him down). He's the 14th highest-paid PG in the league at that rate. I'd argue that relative to the rest of the league, that's a pretty reasonable contract for his production, impact and age range.

The other thing that's a little more fluid is a team's own cap situation. New York seems to be operating on an assumption that they'll be pumping big money to RJ Barrett's (and to a lesser extent Robinson's) extensions. They'll want to come right up against the cap before they sign extensions because their drafted players will have those bird rights. Brunson might not be THE guy, but getting the best player available for the cap space they have before it dries up makes some sense that way.

 

[RickyGQ]

good trade. we sent them back pennies

We’re also covering a third of their salaries. Is there a cap on how much cash a team can send in a trade? What’s to stop a team sending an expiring player to a team with space and the whole sum of his contract. For example, if we had just traded Burks to the pistons along with 9.5 million in cash.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

So the Knicks want 6’1 PG and a 6’4 SG in their backcourt?

I like Murray and Brunson but damn yo..

I need big guards

Pause

 

[RickyGQ]

I agree about committing too much cap to an okay second option, quality third option guy. But there are a couple of things to bare in mind:
1. The new tv deal means a cap jump in '24/'25. Teams are gonna start operating with that date in mind. If you can sign guys to deals that stretch past the cap increase dates then they suddenly eat up a lot less of the cap due to that increase.

2. Like you said, this is a league-wide issue and you've gotta pay to keep up. Tyler Herro's projected to make 25 million per fam. Brunson's contract at 27.5 per year would make him the 45th highest-paid player in the league (and that's before any other contracts are signed that might push him down). He's the 14th highest-paid PG in the league at that rate. I'd argue that relative to the rest of the league, that's a pretty reasonable contract for his production, impact and age range.

The other thing that's a little more fluid is a team's own cap situation. New York seems to be operating on an assumption that they'll be pumping big money to RJ Barrett's (and to a lesser extent Robinson's) extensions. They'll want to come right up against the cap before they sign extensions because their drafted players will have those bird rights. Brunson might not be THE guy, but getting the best player available for the cap space they have before it dries up makes some sense that way.

Word is Robinsons getting 4/60

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I agree about committing too much cap to an okay second option, quality third option guy. But there are a couple of things to bare in mind:
1. The new tv deal means a cap jump in '24/'25. Teams are gonna start operating with that date in mind. If you can sign guys to deals that stretch past the cap increase dates then they suddenly eat up a lot less of the cap due to that increase.

2. Like you said, this is a league-wide issue and you've gotta pay to keep up. Tyler Herro's projected to make 25 million per fam. Brunson's contract at 27.5 per year would make him the 45th highest-paid player in the league (and that's before any other contracts are signed that might push him down). He's the 14th highest-paid PG in the league at that rate. I'd argue that relative to the rest of the league, that's a pretty reasonable contract for his production, impact and age range.

The other thing that's a little more fluid is a team's own cap situation. New York seems to be operating on an assumption that they'll be pumping big money to RJ Barrett's (and to a lesser extent Robinson's) extensions. They'll want to come right up against the cap before they sign extensions because their drafted players will have those bird rights. Brunson might not be THE guy, but getting the best player available for the cap space they have before it dries up makes some sense that way.

i don't disagree and i hear you... it's just that it's gonna be the same old story for NY where they are searching for a #1 option and won't be bad enough to draft a guy who can be that and won't probably have enough room in the cap even after the increase to go get the guy..

So that leaves "disgruntled star trade scenarios". if you have Brunson you not gonna wanna go get Dame probably. Beal probably staying. Zion staying. Durant staying.

Just not sure where it's gonna come from.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Why do the Knicks even want Murray when they have RJ at the 2??

They traded Noel away

They want to be small on some GS death lineup shyt?

 

[Wargames]

So the Knicks want 6’1 PG and a 6’4 SG in their backcourt?

I like Murray and Brunson but damn yo..

I need big guards

Pause

I don’t think they are going after Murray. They might, but I think that is Atlanta’s move to make this off-season. They like what they had with Bogdan and Murray is that and more.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

nikkas saw the mavs hiding Brunson in the corner so he wouldn't get picked on defensively and still think he's worth a dime? Crazy talk.

 

[storyteller]

i don't disagree and i hear you... it's just that it's gonna be the same old story for NY where they are searching for a #1 option and won't be bad enough to draft a guy who can be that and won't probably have enough room in the cap even after the increase to go get the guy..

So that leaves "disgruntled star trade scenarios". if you have Brunson you not gonna wanna go get Dame probably. Beal probably staying. Zion staying. Durant staying.

Just not sure where it's gonna come from.

That's definitely fair. I think the new lottery model has made it a lot more difficult to trust tanking for to get that top guy though. The worst team never seems to win the best pick anymore and middling teams have leapfrogged into the top-4. There's not really a fool-proof way to land that franchise guy anymore.

The disgruntled star path does seem tough. Things have to fall right and it's gotta be a star player that actually suits your roster when the time comes. But I do commend the FO for getting NY closer to a place where they can land that one big piece. They've got the picks and youth to facilitate a big trade now and their roster is good enough that a star player will bump them into that top-6 range with a chance to become contenders.

An underrated aspect of this roster is just how young it is. After waiving Taj, they'll only have three players over 25. Randle, Fournier, and Rose will be the only guys in or past their primes. Every other player is still inside the typical developmental window where growth is fairly safe to count on.

 

[#1 pick]

I don’t think they are going after Murray. They might, but I think that is Atlanta’s move to make this off-season. They like what they had with Bogdan and Murray is that and more.

No the hell it ain't

 

[CantStop]

Brunson getting 30m not even that bad and it’s gonna look even better when that tv money kicks in.