"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

RickyGQ

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Some of y’all did criticize this team in not being aggressive in going to get their guy. If they really value Brunson, or it turns out they had somebody else completely in mind that we’re not even aware of this would be exactly the type of thing we’d hope they did to make sure they get that guy…
 

Henryflo1

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Some of y’all did criticize this team in not being aggressive in going to get their guy. If they really value Brunson, or it turns out they had somebody else completely in mind that we’re not even aware of this would be exactly the type of thing we’d hope they did to make sure they get that guy…
The thing is they are burning assets all for Jalen Brunson. They could have not guaranteed Kembas contract and none of this shyt would have needed to be done.
 

Wargames

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They could go after Beal. Then Brunson, then Tyus and Brogdon.

If they pull option A they might get legit Contender buzz, option B is treadmill status, and option C/D is a big L.
 

Daniel.

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Some of y’all did criticize this team in not being aggressive in going to get their guy. If they really value Brunson, or it turns out they had somebody else completely in mind that we’re not even aware of this would be exactly the type of thing we’d hope they did to make sure they get that guy…

Draft picks.

I said this regarding draft picks.

Not clearing the deck to spend money on another 3rd option on a championship team.

:snoop: I won't even bother trying to speak on this anymore if its just going to continue to be misconstrued. By all accounts they tried with Ivey and failed, so I'll just let it go.

Good for them making moves to get their guy. Brunson, Randle and Barrett barrelling to the basket for numerous play insshould be fun to watch.
 

RickyGQ

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The thing is they are burning assets all for Jalen Brunson. They could have not guaranteed Kembas contract and none of this shyt would have needed to be done.
Yea. But we’re here now. At least they’re acknowledging the mistake instead of sitting on their hands and letting the contract expire in the name of being conservative.

And what if they’re clearing cap space for a guy like Zach Lavine? If anything this draft and every other draft by this organization has taught us, it’s that NOBODY knows what this front office is planning until it’s done. Writers were scrambling last night trying to figure out what the trade even was and all their sources were clearly from the other teams. I like Brunson and I’m sure that’s who the target is, but i wouldn’t be surprised in the least if that’s not who this is all for and they’re just letting everyone make their educated guesses on who the Knicks covet.
 

RickyGQ

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Draft picks.

I said this regarding draft picks.

Not clearing the deck to spend money on another 3rd option on a championship team.

:snoop: I won't even bother trying to speak on this anymore if its just going to continue to be misconstrued. By all accounts they tried with Ivey and failed, so I'll just let it go.

Good for them making moves to get their guy. Brunson, Randle and Barrett barrelling to the basket for numerous play insshould be fun to watch.
Fair enough.
 

storyteller

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Dust settles, slept on it, here's my thoughts dump:
- In retrospect, they didn't deal a 1st and 4 2nds to dump Kemba. They swapped a Denver pick for a Bucks pick with a better chance to be decent (lighter protections, further out with both teams having similar records lately). But moving 4 second-rounders to dump a 9 million dollar expiring does seem like a lot anyway.

- The other two trades..actually not bad. I spent a couple of weeks talking about how unenthusiastic I was about this draft once you get past 5 players (Ivey and Sharpe joining the obvious three). Trading out of 11 in this draft for picks that will potentially reach top-8 and top-12 protections next year, plus a top-4 unprotected 2025 pick isn't so bad. It also leaves New York with 4 potential picks in the vaunted double-draft.

- Duren (13th pick) for a projected late Denver selection and some second-rounders is even better. They upgraded that Denver pick after moving Duren in the next move IMO, and thus turned 4 second-rounders into a lottery selection Center...but that damned Kemba trade hurts this one.

- Now what does the Kemba trade mean for New York? Well...at least one more of the logjam vets has to be traded out for this cap space to be worth anything. So that's kind of a good thing. We want vets gone and this trade is like firing off a flare that says "we're dumping some contracts." There was already a Burks to Boston rumor brewing last night. One player out means 24 million in cap space and if they dump two or three that number gets higher.

- Here's where that 24 million figure gets interesting. That puts them in the top-5 teams with cap space. I've mentioned before that nobody's got cap space this offseason. There are only 4 teams with anything to offer free agents beyond exceptions and none of those teams are drawing player interest. So New York is in a solid position to convince someone substantial to sign...they don't have much competition after all.

- But what if it's Jalen Brunson? I don't hate it. Derrick Rose is probably the most valuable expiring we have and I suspect they shop him once a Jalen Brunson deal is locked in. Does it turn the Knicks into world-beaters? Hell no. But a Knicks team with Brunson/IQ/RJ/Obi/Mitch/Grimes/Sims/McBride/Keels/Montero/4 projected firsts in '23/an additional '25 first-rounder actually has enough to compete in any disgruntled superstar trades. The Dallas pick also gets better by stealing their second option after the KP trade.

- So Brunson becomes less of "the target" and more of "a consolidation piece." They turn two to five players we want gone into one better guy...and it doesn't actually HAVE to be Brunson. I think the eye rolls yesterday were because Brunson is likely staying in Dallas. But between RFAs and stars declining their player options, if any negotiation gets dicey then we are in the best position to strike.

- And @RickyGQ is right. The Knicks made an aggressive play yesterday...too aggressive for most of our tastes. But if they start the offseason by aggressively courting cap space in what is clearly an incomplete move; then that points to more assertive moves to come. At a minimum, we're getting off one more contract. I think it'll be more like 2 or 3 contracts and I suspect that the real goal is chase a star rather than Brunson. Brunson just gives them cover from disappointed fans (like what happened with Ivey).

- None of this should absolve the Knicks FO from us being annoyed. They haven't made their direction clear and won't address the media or fans to give us an indication. Their plan is clearly incomplete and they've only given us Jalen Brunson as a name to watch for. That's hardly enough. But I think it's notable that there's obviously more to come. We won't have a clear picture for what they're doing until free agency begins. I'll decide on hating, loving, or anything in between after the smoke settles.

- And lastly...I still want a Dejounte Murray trade.
 

RickyGQ

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Dust settles, slept on it, here's my thoughts dump:
- In retrospect, they didn't deal a 1st and 4 2nds to dump Kemba. They swapped a Denver pick for a Bucks pick with a better chance to be decent (lighter protections, further out with both teams having similar records lately). But moving 4 second-rounders to dump a 9 million dollar expiring does seem like a lot anyway.

- The other two trades..actually not bad. I spent a couple of weeks talking about how unenthusiastic I was about this draft once you get past 5 players (Ivey and Sharpe joining the obvious three). Trading out of 11 in this draft for picks that will potentially reach top-8 and top-12 protections next year, plus a top-4 unprotected 2025 pick isn't so bad. It also leaves New York with 4 potential picks in the vaunted double-draft.

- Duren (13th pick) for a projected late Denver selection and some second-rounders is even better. They upgraded that Denver pick after moving Duren in the next move IMO, and thus turned 4 second-rounders into a lottery selection Center...but that damned Kemba trade hurts this one.

- Now what does the Kemba trade mean for New York? Well...at least one more of the logjam vets has to be traded out for this cap space to be worth anything. So that's kind of a good thing. We want vets gone and this trade is like firing off a flare that says "we're dumping some contracts." There was already a Burks to Boston rumor brewing last night. One player out means 24 million in cap space and if they dump two or three that number gets higher.

- Here's where that 24 million figure gets interesting. That puts them in the top-5 teams with cap space. I've mentioned before that nobody's got cap space this offseason. There are only 4 teams with anything to offer free agents beyond exceptions and none of those teams are drawing player interest. So New York is in a solid position to convince someone substantial to sign...they don't have much competition after all.

- But what if it's Jalen Brunson? I don't hate it. Derrick Rose is probably the most valuable expiring we have and I suspect they shop him once a Jalen Brunson deal is locked in. Does it turn the Knicks into world-beaters? Hell no. But a Knicks team with Brunson/IQ/RJ/Obi/Mitch/Grimes/Sims/McBride/Keels/Montero/4 projected firsts in '23/an additional '25 first-rounder actually has enough to compete in any disgruntled superstar trades. The Dallas pick also gets better by stealing their second option after the KP trade.

- So Brunson becomes less of "the target" and more of "a consolidation piece." They turn two to five players we want gone into one better guy...and it doesn't actually HAVE to be Brunson. I think the eye rolls yesterday were because Brunson is likely staying in Dallas. But between RFAs and stars declining their player options, if any negotiation gets dicey then we are in the best position to strike.

- And @RickyGQ is right. The Knicks made an aggressive play yesterday...too aggressive for most of our tastes. But if they start the offseason by aggressively courting cap space in what is clearly an incomplete move; then that points to more assertive moves to come. At a minimum, we're getting off one more contract. I think it'll be more like 2 or 3 contracts and I suspect that the real goal is chase a star rather than Brunson. Brunson just gives them cover from disappointed fans (like what happened with Ivey).

- None of this should absolve the Knicks FO from us being annoyed. They haven't made their direction clear and won't address the media or fans to give us an indication. Their plan is clearly incomplete and they've only given us Jalen Brunson as a name to watch for. That's hardly enough. But I think it's notable that there's obviously more to come. We won't have a clear picture for what they're doing until free agency begins. I'll decide on hating, loving, or anything in between after the smoke settles.

- And lastly...I still want a Dejounte Murray trade.
Help me out with sign and trades. Could we hypothetically trade Burks 10 million with 2 firsts for Lavine 34 million in a sign and trade with the bulls? Like does the 20 million cap space work in our benefit in that situation. Cause i know sign and trade deals are very specific.
 

storyteller

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Help me out with sign and trades. Could we hypothetically trade Burks 10 million with 2 firsts for Lavine 34 million in a sign and trade with the bulls? Like does the 20 million cap space work in our benefit in that situation. Cause i know sign and trade deals are very specific.

If I'm not mistaken, they just can't exceed the luxury tax apron in the process. I think that by doing it that way though, they wouldn't be able to go above the tax to re-sign an RFA (aka Mitch). But that part's where the cap stuff gets too wonky for me to follow.

Where I think this gets kinda interesting is that they chased a TPE yesterday. I laughed at it but Fournier for an 18 million dollar TPE plus the 16 million that the trades they did make produced equals exactly 34 million dollars (rescind Mitch's rights and it gets close to the 37 that I believe is Zach's supermax). They want TPE's to facilitate bigger deals. Idk if it'll work out, but that seems to be part of the plan.

And I'll mention the big name again...Brock Aller is a cap genius in the most literal sense.
 
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