Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast

[theworldismine13]

He was talking about comparatively, George Washington would be a "kind leader" because the Mongol empire and time period was one of the roughest and most ruthless periods in all of human history. I think you're looking too into things, don't think that was on purpose at all.

I understand what he was tryin to say, what I am saying is that to the Indians and African slaves, they wouldn't consider George Washington and his people as less rough than the Mongols, from their/our pov America and the Mongols would be about the same, I don't think he understands that

By referring to George Washington as "kind" he is doing the exact same thing he is saying historians do

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

I understand what he was tryin to say, what I am saying is that to the Indians and African slaves, they wouldn't consider George Washington and his people as less rough than the Mongols, from their/our pov America and the Mongols would be about the same, I don't think he understands that

By referring to George Washington as "kind" he is doing the exact same thing he is saying historians do

He didn't literally mean he was kind. Compared to the Mongols he was kind (I don't know how you could argue against this) but compared to our standards today? Probably not too nice.

George Washington wasn't going around killing all males above the age of a small child or raping women in front of their own families while they're dying a slow death from being impaled. Genghis thought he was on a divine mission sanctioned by God to bring everything on earth under his rule. It was either submit to him or die. I don't think Washington necessarily had that mindset.

They both did some terrible things, but the Khan's were far worse imo.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

subbed

 

[theworldismine13]

He didn't literally mean he was kind. Compared to the Mongols he was kind (I don't know how you could argue against this) but compared to our standards today? Probably not too nice.

George Washington wasn't going around killing all males above the age of a small child or raping women in front of their own families while they're dying a slow death from being impaled. Genghis thought he was on a divine mission sanctioned by God to bring everything on earth under his rule. It was either submit to him or die. I don't think Washington necessarily had that mindset.

They both did some terrible things, but the Khan's were far worse imo.

Again I understand what he was trying to say, but from the point of view of the Indian and the African slave George Washington and the Mongols are the same

an Indian whose whole tribe has been wiped out or a slave getting sold and tortured doesnt care about any of that

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Again I understand what he was trying to say, but from the point of view of the Indian and the African slave George Washington and the Mongols are the same

an Indian whose whole tribe has been wiped out or a slave getting sold and tortured doesnt care about any of that

On an individual level, I see what you're saying, but when we're comparing two historical figures, in terms of fukked up shyt they did, Genghis Khan shyts all over George Washington. It's not like you can necessarily ascribe all Indian's who die/get enslaved or whatever to George Washington personally. Genghis Khan literally ruled and guided a society with an iron fist. Washington was more of a cog in the wheel. As you hear in the podcast, without the khan the society had no identity and didn't know what to do with itself.

 

[theworldismine13]

On an individual level, I see what you're saying, but when we're comparing two historical figures, in terms of fukked up shyt they did, Genghis Khan shyts all over George Washington. It's not like you can necessarily ascribe all Indian's who die/get enslaved or whatever to George Washington personally. Genghis Khan literally ruled and guided a society with an iron fist. Washington was more of a cog in the wheel. As you hear in the podcast, without the khan the society had no identity and didn't know what to do with itself.

I don't know how many times I have too repeat myself, I understand what he was trying to say, you don't have to write paragraphs trying to explain

I'm not speaking from an individual level, in speaking from a racial level of black people and Indians, in his comments he is taking the white American point of view and saying and implying positives of america and basically ignoring the blacks and Indians that suffered under America which ironically is something he is saying historians do with other empires

I don't have any beef with him, I give the podcast props, but I'm just pointing something out that people should note when they listen to him

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

I don't know how many times I have too repeat myself, I understand what he was trying to say, you don't have to write paragraphs trying to explain

I'm not speaking from an individual level, in speaking from a racial level of black people and Indians, in his comments he is taking the white American point of view and saying and implying positives of america and basically ignoring the blacks and Indians that suffered under America which ironically is something he is saying historians do with other empires

I don't have any beef with him, I give the podcast props, but I'm just pointing something out that people should note when they listen to him

I wrote one paragraph in that post and wasn't trying to re-explain anything to you.

Dude was a history major in college, I'm sure hes fully aware that america was built on the backs of slaves, this is taught in american history courses in all colleges. Just because people don't go around chanting it everyday or mentioning it during their podcast series on the Mongols doesn't mean he's speaking from some uneducated "white american" point of view. Any white american with any knowledge of history can tell you that. Most of the "great" societies were built on slave labor.

Again, I don't remember him ever speaking about the "positives" of America within this Mongol podcast series. I heard him make those George Washington comments, but what he said was correct.

 

[theworldismine13]

I wrote one paragraph in that post.

Dude was a history major in college, I'm sure hes fully aware that america was built on the backs of slaves, this is taught in american history courses in all colleges. Just because people don't go around chanting it everyday or mentioning it during their podcast series on the Mongols doesn't mean he's speaking from some uneducated "white american" point of view. Any white american with any knowledge of history can tell you that.

Again, I don't remember him ever speaking about the "positives" of America within this Mongol podcast series. I heard him make those George Washington comments, but what he said was correct.

I didn't say he didn't know about slavery

And I think you need to retread my post, my point was that its weird that he didn't mention america becuase America is a perfect example of the point he was trying to make, so I'm not saying that he mentioned America, I'm saying that he didn't mention America

I didn't say what he said about George Washington wasnt correct, I said that he is saying it from a certain point of view, from his point of view it is correct

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

There's a whole episode of the show about the historical curiosity of the fact that Europeans (/whites) are responsible for far more aggressive exploitation of other peoples they encountered, from the late middle ages onward than, than their counterparts in the Chinese Empire and the Muslim world.

 

[Mook]

Thought he meant that symbolically ghengis was the washington of mongols.

 

[theworldismine13]

Thought he meant that symbolically ghengis was the washington of mongols.

he did mean it that way one time, he also mentioned washington a couple of other times as a way to contrast american leaders to mongol leaders

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

There's a whole episode of the show about the historical curiosity of the fact that Europeans (/whites) are responsible for far more aggressive exploitation of other peoples they encountered, from the late middle ages onward than, than their counterparts in the Chinese Empire and the Muslim world.

There you go TWIM, you feel better now?

 

[theworldismine13]

There you go TWIM, you feel better now?

feel better about what? did you even read my post, or are you having some kind of homotional episode because i pointed out a historical blind spot in the podcast?

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

feel better about what? did you even read my post, or are you having some kind of homotional episode because i pointed out a historical blind spot in the podcast?

Just because he didn't use a specific example you wanted him to doesn't mean he has a historical blindspot and if you've listened to his "Common sense" podcast you'd know he is very critical of the U.S.

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/csarchive

 

[theworldismine13]

im not dissing the podcast, i think its excellent, but im pointing out 2 things about it 1) which was actually the first point i made, that he is wrong about alexander the great being simply a conqueror and not caring about spreading hellenestic culture, in fact alexander's stated goal was to spread hellenestic culture and combine the eastern and western cultures to create a greater culture 2) its a bit of cognitive dissonance the way he doesnt mention the fact that all the criticisms he makes of historians paving over dead people applies to the country he was born in

thats it, thats all, i dont need need an explanation of what he really meant by this and that, i know what he meant