Curry is on track to surpass MJ, better than Lebron.
- Thread starter Un-AmericanDreamer
- Start date
murksiderock
Superstar
Terrible posting quality...
There's nothing Steph could do to be considered "undisputed" GOAT. Mike is the Consensus GOAT and he's not undisputed. Brady is the consensus GOAT quarterback and he's not undisputed. Nothing Steph does from here on, aside from I guess going on a Bill Russell, 8 consecutive championships run, can ever make him undisputed...
If he wins another ring as the best player on his team, the remaining 12 or so players in front of him, by consensus, are all in jeopardy. Curry continuing to extend his prime and adding more titles as the best player on his team puts everyone at risk, LeBron, Jordan, and everyone else...
But there's still ten or so guys in the hierarchy before he gets to LeBron or Jordan...
Curry winning another championship but he isn't the best player on the team, is ou going to move him incrementally. Being the best player on your championship team matters and can't be understated, it's part of the reason most people have Mike over Kareem while they both have 6 rings. Mike never had to take a secondary or ancillary role on any of his championship runs...
It's part of the reason why most heads rank Moses over The Doctor. Part of the reason we rank Dirk, who only won one title but was the best player, over Robinson, who won two but was a declining version of himself. And it's the reason no one views Admiral's two titles the same way they view Durant's or Hakeem's or Wilt's two, and it's the reason no one views Scottie's 6 as equal to Mike's 6 or even KG's 1, or Hondo's 8 as greater than Shaq's 4...
Most people in The Culture understand this because it shows when we're directly comparing players. The role you play on your championship teams matters...
If Steph never wins another title but stretches his prime another 5 years, he still moves up the boards. The titles are the easiest thing to see but your career isn't solely evaluated upon them...
Also, to your post:
•LeBron won 4 MVPs in 5 years, 3 championships in 5 years, 4 championships in 9 years, and had a 12-year run where he won 4 championships and 4 MVPs within it. But he didn't impose his will on the sport? You sound crazy...
•neither LeBron nor Steph play like Mike, what are you talking about?
•Steph's 13-year career to date isn't a more successful one than Mike's (1998) or Bron's (2016) thru 13...
Just an all-around terrible post by you...
Brave post op 
But I get what you're saying op @Un-AmericanDreamer
You're basically saying that if Curry wins again, it'll prove his style play is the most effective at leading championship teams.
A GOAT shooter, that is also a GOAT-level-off-ball player, with elite handles, elite finishing at the rim, that is unselfish, and has slowly built up his defense to where he is a plus defender.
Is offensive value is so high that not only is it easy to build around, its also easy to mask any defensive defenciencies he has.
@Rhakim Stacked teams, really? You're still ignoring how flawed some of these warriors teams are outside Durant.
Again, they can afford to have 1 way defensive guys like Draymond or GP2 that have little offense because Curry completely masks them.
Gary Payton II isn't going to be nearly as good without Steph.
If you're calling this year's 2022 Warriors team stacked, then those late 90s Bulls teams were stacked (96 Bulls had one of the best supporting casts ever by rating/metrics in terms of production).
Steph with another superstar? GOAT level team, instant ring. Steph with a good supporting cast? Still a good bet to make the finals.
But I get what you're saying op @Un-AmericanDreamer
You're basically saying that if Curry wins again, it'll prove his style play is the most effective at leading championship teams.
A GOAT shooter, that is also a GOAT-level-off-ball player, with elite handles, elite finishing at the rim, that is unselfish, and has slowly built up his defense to where he is a plus defender.
Is offensive value is so high that not only is it easy to build around, its also easy to mask any defensive defenciencies he has.
@Rhakim Stacked teams, really? You're still ignoring how flawed some of these warriors teams are outside Durant.
Again, they can afford to have 1 way defensive guys like Draymond or GP2 that have little offense because Curry completely masks them.
Gary Payton II isn't going to be nearly as good without Steph.
If you're calling this year's 2022 Warriors team stacked, then those late 90s Bulls teams were stacked (96 Bulls had one of the best supporting casts ever by rating/metrics in terms of production).
Steph with another superstar? GOAT level team, instant ring. Steph with a good supporting cast? Still a good bet to make the finals.
Fixed
@murksiderock
weve talked about it before but it all depends on criteria.
if you go by brute force stats, yes LeBron is still ahead, and may even still be ahead if Steph wins another.
But if Steph wins another, a lot of people are going to - whether it's fair or not - view Lebron's stats (his near triple double averages of 27 7 7) of just being a function of him dominating the ball.
Steph winning another will make people evaluate and appreciate what he does on the court, and thus will make people recontextualize his lesser accolades. Especially since this would be his 3rd non-superteam ring.
weve talked about it before but it all depends on criteria.
if you go by brute force stats, yes LeBron is still ahead, and may even still be ahead if Steph wins another.
But if Steph wins another, a lot of people are going to - whether it's fair or not - view Lebron's stats (his near triple double averages of 27 7 7) of just being a function of him dominating the ball.
Steph winning another will make people evaluate and appreciate what he does on the court, and thus will make people recontextualize his lesser accolades. Especially since this would be his 3rd non-superteam ring.
Un-AmericanDreamer
Simp City
People stuck on stat lines, which is cool but then you could make a case for Malone and Westbrook. Curry winning championships overshadows Lebron's legacy because he's sharing what should firmly be his era. You can't be a goat without dominating. Lebron shared his era with Curry and to a lesser extent a healthy Kawhi. It doesn't matter if you do it with 12 rebounds or 1, winning is winning.
DTXwavey_02
All Star
Curry finally winning his first finals mvp got y’all nikkas acting up
The 2016 Warriors advanced to the conference finals with Curry missing majority of the first two rounds. The 2018 Warriors breezed to the conference finals with Curry missing the entirety of the first round and playing a reduced role (including coming off the bench for a game) in the second round. The prime Warriors were not merely a good supporting cast and it wasn't just Steph with another superstar. What planet do you Warriors fans live on? The 2017-2019 Warriors consisted of two MVP level players, a DPOY/all-NBA caliber player, another all-NBA caliber player, and a 6MOTY caliber player. They had a starting five that is better than plenty of Eastern conference all-star teams.Brave post op
But I get what you're saying op @Un-AmericanDreamer
You're basically saying that if Curry wins again, it'll prove his style play is the most effective at leading championship teams.
A GOAT shooter, that is also a GOAT-level-off-ball player, with elite handles, elite finishing at the rim, that is unselfish, and has slowly built up his defense to where he is a plus defender.
Is offensive value is so high that not only is it easy to build around, its also easy to mask any defensive defenciencies he has.
@Rhakim Stacked teams, really? You're still ignoring how flawed some of these warriors teams are outside Durant.
Again, they can afford to have 1 way defensive guys like Draymond or GP2 that have little offense because Curry completely masks them.
Gary Payton II isn't going to be nearly as good without Steph.
If you're calling this year's 2022 Warriors team stacked, then those late 90s Bulls teams were stacked (96 Bulls had one of the best supporting casts ever by rating/metrics in terms of production).
Steph with another superstar? GOAT level team, instant ring. Steph with a good supporting cast? Still a good bet to make the finals.
Impossible to say that when we've seen Lebron and Steph matchup and Lebron was the better player each and every time, regardless of how overmatched he was. We've seen Lebron put Matthew Dellavadova and Mozgov on his back to take a series lead over Curry and his 67 win team. We've seen Lebron anchor the Cavs defense and control the offense (to the tune of leading both teams in every category) in the 2016 finals. We've seen Lebron carry teams without any real all-star talent like the 2007 and 2018 Cavs to the finals or the 2009 Cavs to 66 wins while Curry in the same predicament missed the playoffs. We're only having this conversation because Kevin Durant decided to bless an already great team with the two easiest championship rings of all-time. If Curry had 4 finals MVPs to go along with his 4 championships this discussion would have merit.
murksiderock
Superstar
People are already evaluating and appreciating what Steph does...
LeBron is the soft target because of both his polarization and he and Steph playing at the same time, but I don't think Steph's success will diminish anything Bron has done. Superteam rings never mattered before the 2010s, so I think people giving them an added sense of importance today is intellectually dishonest. Don't nobody give a fukk about "Superteam rings" unless we about to discredit all 11 of Russell's titles, let's asterisk them all, he really has 0?
...People view LeBron thru the lens that supports their opinion, so if one feels like Bron's dominating the ball is a detriment or weakness, they are making that argument well before Steph even won this latest title. Personally, I don't get why people overstate play style among GOATs, as every single one of them played differently...
Every. Single. One...
Since Russell's retirement in '69, only Mike (6) and Duncan/Bron (4) won a minimum of 4 championships as a team's best player. That's it. Bron's play style may not be your preference but only one player won more championships in the modern era, and both Duncan and Jordan were less dexterous and had their play fit into specific schemes by one specific coach to attain championship glory---->kinda like Steph...
Alot of you guys will appreciate Bron alot more once he's outta here, man. Guys are not able to do what he did, most players have to be coached very specifically and specially to get the highest results from them. And that doesn't change that these other dudes are All-Timers too, but we saw Mike and Steph play for other coaches. Justify the results however you choose, but these guys didn't reach the heights they met without a specific hand guiding them...
Mike has a fukking losing record I his career without Phil Jackson as his coach...
This "playstyle" point is a deterrent, no one's play is the same and yet all these guys are multiple time champions, and of all these guys, no one's play has been so singularly responsible for winning, as measured by the different coaches, roster construction, and franchises led to championships, as LeBron. I know this playstyle thing is your thing bro, but it's really a non-issue
...
Cel 510 kid ados forever
Veteran
He will never get close
He's definitely better and more valuable than Lebron right now. History will look more fondly on his career too if he wins another one. He's not catching Mike, though.
the nba and rap fanbases are so dumb. and they collide on the coliPeople still using team accomplishments to rank who is the better player.
Mind boggling how dumb the NBA fanbase is.
murksiderock
Superstar
Why isn't he catching Mike, in your opinion?
@Rhakim you think the 2022Warriors were a stacked team?Brave post op
But I get what you're saying op @Un-AmericanDreamer
You're basically saying that if Curry wins again, it'll prove his style play is the most effective at leading championship teams.
A GOAT shooter, that is also a GOAT-level-off-ball player, with elite handles, elite finishing at the rim, that is unselfish, and has slowly built up his defense to where he is a plus defender.
Is offensive value is so high that not only is it easy to build around, its also easy to mask any defensive defenciencies he has.
@Rhakim Stacked teams, really? You're still ignoring how flawed some of these warriors teams are outside Durant.
Again, they can afford to have 1 way defensive guys like Draymond or GP2 that have little offense because Curry completely masks them.
Gary Payton II isn't going to be nearly as good without Steph.
If you're calling this year's 2022 Warriors team stacked, then those late 90s Bulls teams were stacked (96 Bulls had one of the best supporting casts ever by rating/metrics in terms of production).
Steph with another superstar? GOAT level team, instant ring. Steph with a good supporting cast? Still a good bet to make the finals.