Could we talk how Bron owns KD

[mbewane]

word to @Scrub

This needs an Oscar

And I'm a Bron-hater but KD has never been anywhere near Bron.

 

[CarltonJunior]

KD disappeared in the fourth like a BYTCH

STOP IT.


If it was Bron that did that this thread would TRIPLE PLATINUM by now.

Lets ignore the blatant traveling, self passing, continuation calls and OKC being called for fouls that robbed KD of 8 points total brehs

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Could we talk aobut how kawhi owns lebron

 

[smitty22]

Well thats that

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

KD disappeared in the fourth like a BYTCH

STOP IT.


If it was Bron that did that this thread would TRIPLE PLATINUM by now.

Stop with this chicanery shyt. Yall Bron stans are disgusting.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Man... I don't want to hear that mess. He LeBron. He the best player in the world. He should have done more. They lost and it's his fault.

If he did anymore he would have expected to average 45 pts 15+ rbs and 12+ ast. At some point, you can't do anymore. Lets see what Vurry would have done w/o his next 2 best.

 

[Gangstar8]

You read box scores and stats i watch games

 

[IllmaticDelta]

You read box scores and stats i watch games

I watch games too and it agreed with those box scores

 

[Gangstar8]

I watch games too and it agreed with those box scores

On inlfated stats when fat diaw was guarding lebron

 

[FreddyCalhoun]

33/9/11 Kang shyt

KD was scared to play offense in the second half when Bron was guarding

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I only highlighted the points because Durant has this player named Russell Westbrook on his team - I don't know if you've heard of him or not but he initiates the offense, and Durant is typically the secondary playmaker. He has less posession time of ball in-hand compared to LeBron who can look to set up players more. Something which shouldn't be held against Durant since this is out of his control.

Which:

1) Means that Lebron is doing more than Durant, and

2) Means that Durant has the advantage of being set up by one of the best point guards in the league, which is going to inflate his scoring efficiency.

3) Suggests that Durant's higher turnover numbers than Lebron, despite being only the secondary playmaker, are a real issue.


You can't act like having an MVP candidate on your team is simply a drawback for your numbers, then highlight numbers like FG% that are helped by the same fact.

To be honest in this context, all of these things don't really speak on what impact they have on the game. And I mean apart from LeBron's rebounding percentage in the Finals - they're pretty much near-equal in rebounds (regular season), steals and blocks. Those surface stats aren't really going to tell you what they've done on defense. Since they both typically guard each other, and they average basically the same points on similar percentages. It isn't as if Durant's lack of production has been the reason why his team usually loses to LeBron.

I agree - Lebron has the clear advantage on wins, assist-to-turnover ratio (always) and rebounding (in the Finals).
Durant didn't have a clear advantage on anything.

And this is all considering LeBron has had the advantage of being four years older. The H2H record would be different if their career-starts were identical.
Durant lost his first six straight games from 2008-2011 when not only Seattle/OKC went from one of the worst teams in the league (two seasons straight winning less than 30 games) to finding their feet as a 4th seed in 2011 - but this was the same time when LeBron was basically in his prime (first game against Durant) on one of the best teams in the league. Westbrook wasn't even a top PG during these years. Harden hadn't been drafted yet, and when he was he only grew into a important piece in his last season in OKC (2011/2012) - which by that time Durant and LeBron had already played six games.
I'm not going to continue to go on about their situations since you get the general picture. But that 16-4 record LeBron has over Durant would be A LOT different if Durant was drafted four years prior and LeBron had to go through similar struggles/progression that Durant and his team did.

It's actually only 5 games. In the 6th game they played against each other, OKC's starting lineup was Westbrook, Harden, Jeff Green, Durant, and Kristic, with Ibaka and Collison coming off the bench, and OKC had a 30-17 record at that moment. Durant was in his 4th season and Westbrook was 2nd-team all-NBA. No excuses with that lineup. Lebron had Wade/Bosh....and literally no one else. A young Chalmers and a really old Ilgauskas were the other starters in that game. I forgot Ilgauskas even played for Miami.

I agree - you can take out those 5 games, and Lebron "only" has a 11-4 career advantage over Durant.

And those five games include the two games they played in the 2009-2010 season, when the Thunder were a 50-win team led by Durant, Westbrook, and Jeff Green, and Durant was a 3rd-year player who was almost as old as Lebron had been when Durant got into the league.

And it isn't like Lebron didn't have the same disadvantages coming in even younger on a team that was as bad or worse. Yet teenage Lebron split his first 6 games with prime Kobe, and completely dominated the series after that.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Which:

1) Means that Lebron is doing more than Durant, and

2) Means that Durant has the advantage of being set up by one of the best point guards in the league, which is going to inflate his scoring efficiency.

3) Suggests that Durant's higher turnover numbers than Lebron, despite being only the secondary playmaker, are a real issue.

1) LeBron is doing more than Durant on the offensive side of the ball - again which shouldn't be used against Durant as if he's not doing something that his team need him to do. He doesn't have the ball in his hands to initiate the offense like LeBron typically does.

2) No it doesn't mean he's being set up by one of the best point guards in the league - leading to inflating his scoring efficiency. Don't try this this disingenuous shyt with me. First of all, Westbrook has only been one of the best PGs in the league for around half their matchups. Second of all, Durant doesn't need Westbrook to inflate his scoring efficiency - did you not see what he did without Westbrook during his MVP run - scoring 30+ points on 50+%. shooting and averaging 6-7 assists per game.

3) Durant's higher turnover numbers are more to do with his progression as a playmaker and development of his handle. Over their last five matchups - Durant's averaged 3.8 turnovers and LeBron 4.8 turnovers.

I agree - Lebron has the clear advantage on wins, assist-to-turnover ratio (always) and rebounding (in the Finals).
Durant didn't have a clear advantage on anything.

Why are you saying this as if I'm arguing that Durant has a clear advantage in an area? All I'm arguing is that you just can't simply go off their H2H record, as if Durant hasn't been at a distinct disadvantage.

It's actually only 5 games. In the 6th game they played against each other, OKC's starting lineup was Westbrook, Harden, Jeff Green, Durant, and Kristic, with Ibaka and Collison coming off the bench, and OKC had a 30-17 record at that moment. Durant was in his 4th season and Westbrook was 2nd-team all-NBA. No excuses with that lineup. Lebron had Wade/Bosh....and literally no one else. A young Chalmers and a really old Ilgauskas were the other starters in that game. I forgot Ilgauskas even played for Miami.

I agree - you can take out those 5 games, and Lebron "only" has a 11-4 career advantage over Durant.

No, it's actually six games like I originally said -

No excuses with that lineup?

LeBron was in his prime, Wade was in his prime and Bosh was in his prime - Durant (22), Westbrook (22) and Green (24) were not only scratching the surface of their projections but also as a team - compared to the Big Three who were at the peak of their powers. Kristic and Ibaka weren't shyt that season - no different to the role players that Miami had. Not to mention Harden played like garbage in that game (1-3, 5 points in 28 minutes).

And those five games include the two games they played in the 2009-2010 season, when the Thunder were a 50-win team led by Durant, Westbrook, and Jeff Green, and Durant was a 3rd-year player who was almost as old as Lebron had been when Durant got into the league.

And yet Durant and Westbrook were only 20/21 - surely you can't expect both of them and the young players that surrounded them to beat the best team in the East (Cavs went on to win 60+ games that season) - who had a superior mix of youth and veterans.

And it isn't like Lebron didn't have the same disadvantages coming in even younger on a team that was as bad or worse. Yet teenage Lebron split his first 6 games with prime Kobe, and completely dominated the series after that.

But he didn't have the same disadvantages against Durant - which is what this discussion is about.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

No, it's actually six games like I originally said -

No excuses with that lineup?

LeBron was in his prime, Wade was in his prime and Bosh was in his prime - Durant (22), Westbrook (22) and Green (24) were not only scratching the surface of their projections but also as a team - compared to the Big Three who were at the peak of their powers. Kristic and Ibaka weren't shyt that season - no different to the role players that Miami had. Not to mention Harden played like garbage in that game (1-3, 5 points in 28 minutes).

Westbrook was 2nd-team All-NBA. Durant was 1st-team All-NBA and had finished 2nd in MVP voting the previous year. Jeff Green was averaging 15+PPG for the 3rd year in a row.

All three of them had 20+ points that game and Westbrook nearly had a triple-double.

Harden had a bad game, but he was averaging 12ppg for the season and still far more talented than the 4th-best player on Miami. Ibaka was averaging 10 and 8 with 2.4 blocks/game - that's a mile better than anyone Miami had. Lebron has never had a big who was as defensively threatening as Ibaka already was that year. Hell, even Krstic was better than any center on Miami's roster. Even his backup (Collison) would have started for Miami.

That's supposedly a roster so bad that Durant/Lebron's head-to-head games "shouldn't count".

Don't give me this "but but they weren't in their prime yet" bullshyt. All of them were older than Lebron was when Lebron appeared in his first NBA Finals.

Yeah, they weren't at their absolute peak, but why only matchups at their absolute peak are the only ones that count, I have no idea.

And like we said, even take those 5-6 games away, and Lebron is still dominating Durant in the final scores by 11-4 or 10-4.

Durant and Westbrook are at their absolute peak right now, Lebron rolling with Cunningham-Delly-Jefferson-TT in the 4th, and he's still taking care of business against them.

But he didn't have the same disadvantages against Durant - which is what this discussion is about.

Because he was a better player from an earlier age?

How was the Cleveland lineup and coaching Lebron played with not just as bad, if not worse, than the Thunder lineup that Durant played with?

Jeff Green was already at least as good a player in Durant's 2nd-4th seasons than anyone Lebron played with in his 7 seasons with Cleveland...and then you have 2nd-team all-NBA Westbrook, who was better than any player Lebron had ever had by Durant's 3rd season. Lebron would have taken Jeff Green, young Ibaka, young Westbrook, young Harden, and the Krstic/Collison center duo as his lineup over anything he had in those 7 years.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Don't give me this "but but they weren't in their prime yet" bullshyt. All of them were older than Lebron was when Lebron appeared in his first NBA Finals.

WHAT THE fukk DOES THAT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING?

So now you're comparing LeBron to Westbrook, Harden and Green as if they're remotely the same players and had the same expectations at the same age? If you can't see the distinct advantage that LeBron had by being four years older than them with a prime Wade and prime Bosh - than that's on you.

Yeah, they weren't at their absolute peak, but why only matchups at their absolute peak are the only ones that count, I have no idea.

Yes they were. I'm talking about their peak seasons. 2010/2011 was basically Wade's last peak season. I'm not saying that only matchups at their absolute peaks are the only ones that count - what I'm saying is that LeBron had the advantage of having teammates at their absolute peaks - which explains some of their lopsided H2H record. It isn't as simple as LeBron dominating Durant in every game that they played against each other (because he didn't) as the reason why his team won - the difference in their own ages and their teammates, difference in chemistry and experience of teammates and difference in ability of teammates must be weighed into the equation.

All games matter that they've played against each other - a W is a W - I'm just adding context to their matchups.

And like we said, even take those 5-6 games away, and Lebron is still dominating Durant in the final scores by 11-4 or 10-4. .

Why would I be mad? LeBron has proven to be the better player, and it isn't as if Durant hasn't been able to match him bucket for bucket, despite being four years younger - it just goes to show how talented Durant is. What do you think I'm arguing here?

Durant and Westbrook are at their absolute peak right now, Lebron rolling with Cunningham-Delly-Jefferson-TT in the 4th, and he's still taking care of business against them.

It came down to the last few possessions of the game (it could've gone either way). The Cavs role players outplayed the Thunder's. Tristan killed them on the boards and ultimately was the difference maker. Which again taking nothing away from LeBron because he was second best player in the game (Westbrook being the best).

Because he was a better player from an earlier age?

How was the Cleveland lineup and coaching Lebron played with not just as bad, if not worse, than the Thunder lineup that Durant played with?

What is your point? Where do you see me arguing that Durant is a better all-around player than LeBron has proven to be over his career?

Jeff Green was already at least as good a player in Durant's 2nd-4th seasons than anyone Lebron played with in his 7 seasons with Cleveland...and then you have 2nd-team all-NBA Westbrook, who was better than any player Lebron had ever had by Durant's 3rd season. Lebron would have taken Jeff Green, young Ibaka, young Westbrook, young Harden, and the Krstic/Collison center duo as his lineup over anything he had in those 7 years.

Yeah now you're nonsensical. Take off your LeBron stan outfit and replace it with something that grown folks would wear. When I say "But he didn't have the same disadvantages against Durant - which is what this discussion is about." - I mean if their career paths were reversed their H2H record would be much different.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

LeBron stans accuse other fanbases of being insecure - they should look in the mirror more often.