Collapse of traditional child-bearing and marriage globally in charts

[Youseenmywork]

A traditionalist lifestyle isn't cheap, kids are expensive, marriage is expensive, and the psychological utility isn't necessarily that high for poor and working-class folks. Been reading several books by conservatives complaining about this, and they generally don't want to help pay for a traditionalist lifestyle. For example, conservative Oren Cass was on Ezra Kleins show recently and went into his traditionalist shtick, and when pushed on the govt financially helping people raise their kids, he argued that people could afford families, they just didn't want to make the tradeoffs. But this argument ignores that the tradeoffs can be substantial and the downside risks of making the wrong decisions are different for the working class and poor people. Thus, you have to help people feel there is a greater margin of safety than is currently the case.

I love when brothas talk what they are reading and what they learned

 

[Youseenmywork]

What are you basing any of this of off? Poorer cultures have maintained marriage and family through much harder times. Marriage itself being expensive is a societal construct. People living together in family or communial settings have it much better off than those alone. And its a proven fact kids from 2 parent homes are more stable

The Great Depression didnt see fathers abandoning their children en masse no matter how badly it got financially.

Yall want to keep dancing around the point. Its time to come to terms: the feminists were wrong. They dont have the answers and never did. Their priority was always agency which was needed for sufferage but is not a communial mindset. Everbody is "doing whats best for me"


Women influenced by american western culture dont maintain long relationships as long, I've observed this irl. And while they are forward thinking in agency for women they've never considered what role they want from men. They have the same expectations and ideas of men as their grandmas but with a longer leash for themselves. Just "support women", " Believe women", "give women more opportunities" yet we've never had a forward thinking societal role for males.

Men have the same societal expectations as men from the pre depression days: job, marriage, house and family. Inflation? Bad economy? Bad job market? Deal with it because jeff bezos exists and no queen deserves to settle even he isnt going to date her. America wants to keep producing a bunch of Archie Bunkers to somehow maintain relationships with City Girls and its not working. Make girls to be "independent" bitter misandrists who resent most things the word " Wife" represents while conditoning boys to be head of family units for women who dont care about family. Brilliant plan America

As lucrative as it is to put marriage and divorce in a cycle, I doubt this countryr has incentive to change

I can already hear the capes in the distance, so whoever is reading this and is preparing to type the word "incel", just remember I get more p*ssy than you and if your rebuttal isnt on the topic you aren't worth my time

Bump

 

[Youseenmywork]

It doesn't change much for me. I still think sexual liberation is the primary culprit. The rise in secularism follows. Unless we address those, this doesn't change.

This comment will get overlooked .

 

[Youseenmywork]

One of the things I have found interesting in discussions about marriage, kids out of wedlock, etc. amongst many people, even professionals, is how people have looked at the Black community's issues with births outside of marriage and lack of marriage as a unique cultural failing that is somehow easily righted by attitudes, shaming, etc.

I don't think people realize how global this is becoming. I noticed this living abroad and later on when I did research on marriage demographics. Globally, in developed and middle income countries, excluding East Asia, Greece & Israel, kids are hard core increasingly being born out of wedlock since the 2000s and especially the 2008 GFC. Also, marriage rates for young women are collapsing, even in traditional Asian societies. The big difference is unmarried women in Asia don't typically have kids (which craters their fertility but that's another discussion). Also in Europe there are more two-parent "partner" homes where both parents raise the kids without ever bothering to get married. US tends to skew more towards single parent homes.

I guess you can view this as comforting if you thought Black people had a unique pathology leading to all this. But also it is discomforting since there are clearly larger social and economic forces at play that may be out of our control. That makes it harder to fix. If you are interested in more on this from the top view type in "second demographic transition" in Google.

Granted, our numbers are still at the worse end of the spectrum but we have peaked and have trended flat in marriage and kids born out of wedlock while everyone else is on the upward trend. How do you think this changes your ideas on the causes and solutions to our problems?

Hong Kong chart

Just take the blackpill and get it over with. The generation z is doing exactly what I expect them to do . When generation A come around most of the kids will be mixed breed ....just take the black pill .

 

[ogc163]

However, when it comes to another fundamental feature of family life—childbearing—working-class and especially poor women are more likely to have children than their middle- and upper-class peers (see Figure 3). Estimates derived from the 2013–15 National Survey of Family Growth indicate that poor women currently have about 2.4 children, compared with 1.8 children for working-class women, and 1.7 children for middle- and upper-class women. Poor women, in particular, start childbearing earlier and end up having markedly more children than more affluent women.

But the fact that working-class and poor Americans are less likely to be married also means they are more likely to have these children outside of wedlock. In fact, as Figure 4 indicates, children born to working-class mothers are almost three times as likely to be born outside of wedlock, compared with children born to middle- and upper-class mothers. Children born to poor mothers are about five times as likely to be born out of wedlock.

Two points are particularly salient here. First, nonmarital childbearing is comparatively rare among more affluent and educated women. Second, it is still the case that a majority of babies born to working-class mothers are born in wedlock. In other words, marriage is still connected to parenthood for most working-class parents having a baby.

The Marriage Divide: How and Why Working-Class Families Are More Fragile Today

 

[Kenny West]

However, when it comes to another fundamental feature of family life—childbearing—working-class and especially poor women are more likely to have children than their middle- and upper-class peers (see Figure 3). Estimates derived from the 2013–15 National Survey of Family Growth indicate that poor women currently have about 2.4 children, compared with 1.8 children for working-class women, and 1.7 children for middle- and upper-class women. Poor women, in particular, start childbearing earlier and end up having markedly more children than more affluent women.

But the fact that working-class and poor Americans are less likely to be married also means they are more likely to have these children outside of wedlock. In fact, as Figure 4 indicates, children born to working-class mothers are almost three times as likely to be born outside of wedlock, compared with children born to middle- and upper-class mothers. Children born to poor mothers are about five times as likely to be born out of wedlock.

Two points are particularly salient here. First, nonmarital childbearing is comparatively rare among more affluent and educated women. Second, it is still the case that a majority of babies born to working-class mothers are born in wedlock. In other words, marriage is still connected to parenthood for most working-class parents having a baby.

The Marriage Divide: How and Why Working-Class Families Are More Fragile Today

This was by design

 

[Youseenmywork]

However, when it comes to another fundamental feature of family life—childbearing—working-class and especially poor women are more likely to have children than their middle- and upper-class peers (see Figure 3). Estimates derived from the 2013–15 National Survey of Family Growth indicate that poor women currently have about 2.4 children, compared with 1.8 children for working-class women, and 1.7 children for middle- and upper-class women. Poor women, in particular, start childbearing earlier and end up having markedly more children than more affluent women.

But the fact that working-class and poor Americans are less likely to be married also means they are more likely to have these children outside of wedlock. In fact, as Figure 4 indicates, children born to working-class mothers are almost three times as likely to be born outside of wedlock, compared with children born to middle- and upper-class mothers. Children born to poor mothers are about five times as likely to be born out of wedlock.

Two points are particularly salient here. First, nonmarital childbearing is comparatively rare among more affluent and educated women. Second, it is still the case that a majority of babies born to working-class mothers are born in wedlock. In other words, marriage is still connected to parenthood for most working-class parents having a baby.

The Marriage Divide: How and Why Working-Class Families Are More Fragile Today

Middle class marriage is declining, and likely deepening inequality

 

[DrBanneker]

Just take the blackpill and get it over with. The generation z is doing exactly what I expect them to do . When generation A come around most of the kids will be mixed breed ....just take the black pill .

I feel ya, but even Black folks swirling in UK, Canada etc. aren't having mixed kids higher than 50%. This is when they are less than 5% of the population too unlike our 14%. Black folks will be around for a while, especially if a good number of mixed people keep marrying Black.

 

[Youseenmywork]

I feel ya, but even Black folks swirling in UK, Canada etc. aren't having mixed kids higher than 50%. This is when they are less than 5% of the population too unlike our 14%. Black folks will be around for a while, especially if a good number of mixed people keep marrying Black.

I see this differently playing out in America . I can attest to this cause Latino women choose me more than black women do . I see in the military as well like he said in the video black women are going to lose black men combine that with black women don't feel like they have to compete for black men ....BGS conversation is layered I could see it like the matrix .

 

[The axe murderer]

Cost of raising children:



Cost of children impacting happiness:

" Blanchflower has long sought to resolve this mismatch between research and human behavior, and he recently made some headway. In a new working paper, he and his co-author, Andrew Clark of the Paris School of Economics, detailed the importance of a single factor: parents’ financial strain. Subtract the stress of struggling to pay bills from the equation, and the presence of children tends to bring parents happiness...
It’s not that children make you unhappy,” Blanchflower told me. “It’s the fact that they bring lots of expenses and difficulties. You have to buy the milk and the diapers. And that financial pressure gets muddled up with this.”

It Isn’t the Kids. It’s the Cost of Raising Them.

Surprised people in this thread aren't being called incels or being told to man up and all that other shaming shyt. The fact is cost of raising kids has people doing a double take on this. Children are a big responsibility that shouldn't be taken lightly

 

[ogc163]

College-educated men take their time becoming dads

Men who have a college degree are far more likely to delay parenthood than men who are less educated, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of data from the National Center for Health Statistics.

Among dads ages 22 to 44, 70% of those with less than a high school diploma say they fathered their first child before the age of 25. By comparison, less than half (45%) of fathers with some college experience became dads by that age. The likelihood of becoming a young father plummets for those with a bachelor’s degree or more: Just 14% had their first child prior to age 25.

On the flip side, among dads with less than a high school diploma, just 9% entered fatherhood between ages 30 and 44, but among men with a bachelor’s degree or more, a plurality (44%) became a dad between ages 30 and 44.

College-educated men take their time becoming dads

 

[Master Teacher]

Because people only get married because they are expected to

instead of spending a shyt load of money on a wedding so other people can party, you should take that money and use its on a down payment on a house, or starting a business

getting married should just be some damn papers field but people want the ceremony because it whats expected

I don't see how people say marriage is more expensive, you got two people in one house making money since women work these days, and don't stay home

the problem is people have kids first then get married, when before it was the other way around, but kids aren't as expensive when they are new borns, you got plenty of time to stack bread before kids really become a cost and you have to buy real food, clothes, schooling, etc

plus you get racks every year during tax season for each kid, people be making up excuses, for not stacking, any situation can be overcome with stacking, if your spouse isn't helping you stack, get another one

 

[Sandy_Cheeks]

Great discussion. When it comes to OOW kids, many of the women(and men) I know who chose that life see babies “as a blessing”. So they have the baby and hold the L regarding how it turns out. I think many perceive children this way regardless of their relationship status. My ex and I are divorced, but the last thing I wanted was to willingly sign up to be a single mother. However, since women don’t need marriage to survive anymore, makes sense why marriage rates are declining. shyt is changing.

 

[DrBanneker]

, but kids aren't as expensive when they are new borns, you got plenty of time to stack bread before kids really become a cost and you have to buy real food, clothes, schooling, etc

It depends. If both parents work (like my wife and I) you have to either get a relative, full time daycare, or nanny to take care of them once maternity leave ends. That is hell of expensive. We actually began saving money when the kids hit public school since the daycare costs went away. But there is always something, from diapers, to toys, etc. You can spend as much or as little as you want but it ain't cheap.

 

[Insensitive]

Honestly, this is one of the trends on the Coli that has irritated me the most. I actually fought about it in the beginning but just chill in the cut now. My folks were more of a pan-africanist mindset when I was growing up so I never felt the need for competition or resentment with West Indians or Africans.

It's a weird contingent on TheColi that's xenophobic and hateful.
So it's not unusual that they'd aim their ate at other black people.

I personally don't agree with it .