Collapse of traditional child-bearing and marriage globally in charts

[Kenny West]

This is a good point. I should have clarified. My assumption is, if the cost of raising a child has gone up, then I'd expect a greater share of the children being born (whether that rate is increasing or decreasing is irrelevant) to be born in either wedlock and/co-habitation. But the reverse seems to be the case. However, if this chart equates OOW as literally not married then yes, the charts make sense. The chart is essentially saying people having children in cohabitation vs. marriage, which speaks to the decline of marriage in much of the developed world.

Exactly

We live in the age where women have the most contraceptives available to them, the largest window for using them and the final say of when or if a child is born at all.

If 2020 women are so much smarter, why are the majority of kids being raised alone? Its financially disadvantageous yet its the norm

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Exactly

We live in the age where women have the most contraceptives available to them, the largest window for using them and the final say of when or if a child is born at all.

If 2020 women are so much smarter, why are the majority of kids being raised alone? Its financially disadvantageous yet its the norm

Nope.

Abortion been a common practice since the beginning of society.

Opinion | Women Have Always Had Abortions

We only debate about it in 2020.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Abortion rates in the US are at their lowest levels in decades — these 6 maps and charts show how abortion in America has changed


1973 the height of some of y’alls claims about family, and children born to married parents.

Also the height of abortions in America.


As I said above. People are more responsible with sex in 2020 than they ever were in the past.

 

[Kenny West]

Nope.

Abortion been a common practice since the beginning of society.

Opinion | Women Have Always Had Abortions

We only debate about it in 2020.

Oh word? So them back alley wire hanger abortions were totally safe and the norm?
Wow breh, why do we even need planned Parenthood clinics?



You have a twisted definition of the term commonplace. Women were dying from that shyt. Abortion was considered a stain back then and was practiced in the shadows. It took political action to make it legal, i mean thats as far away from common as you can get.


But hey....at least you attempted to back up your claims for once. Granted it was an opinion piece that didnt prove your point but still...baby steps

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Oh word? So them back alley wire hanger abortions were totally safe and the norm?

Yes they were the “norm” for women who didn’t want to the child that was in their womb.

Contraception has always been readily available.

What’s changed is the societal motivations to actually have the baby, and our conversations around it.

Wow breh, why do we even need planned Parenthood clinics?

Educated people with access to resources have the privilege to “plan” pregnancy and family life

You have a twisted definition of the term commonplace. Women were dying from that shyt. Abortion was considered a stain back then and was practiced in the shadows. It took political action to make it legal, i mean thats as far away from common as you can get.

Legal don’t mean shyt.

The idea of abortion or contraception being a “legal” issue is new. Throughout human history both have been common practice without much debate.

But hey....at least you attempted to back up your claims for once. Granted it was an opinion piece that didnt prove your point but still...baby steps

Reality exists without opinion.

The terms we use and how we define them change. Human behavior persists.

 

[re'up]

The reasons that many people have kids and families aren't rational evaluations of cost/benefit, or even desire, but religion, social customs, poverty, ignorance, tradition. It needs to be reduced, not like some insane argument about the world having too many people, or "my tax dollars", no, for the actual people's lives.

Doubt I will ever get married, or have children, I'm 34, it would have to be an extremely good proposition. Like marrying a La Reina Del Sur type, or into an Indian, or UAE, dynasty family, or obscenely wealthy socialite. Something like that I would consider.

 

[Kenny West]

Yes they were the “norm” for women who didn’t want to the child that was in their womb.

Contraception has always been readily available.

What’s changed is the societal motivations to actually have the baby, and our conversations around it.

.....no

You're trying to breathe life back your narrative by arguing semantics. Amusing as it is you're still wrong

I mean maragaret sanger was arrested for passing out contraceptives but dont let facts get in your way

Educated people with access to resources have the privilege to “plan” pregnancy and family life

Bro you know thats the name of the organiz......


You know what? Lets just move on

Legal don’t mean shyt.

The idea of abortion or contraception being a “legal” issue is new. Throughout human history both have been common practice without much debate.

It cant simultaneously be illegal and culturally shunned yet have enough access to be commonplace. That shyt was practiced by quacks until it became legal.

What you are saying delegitimizes pretty much all modern abortion support politically.

"What yall need clinics for? Sister odale used to grab a coat hanger yank them bebbies out by the pinky toe!"

Reality exists without opinion.

The terms we use and how we define them change. Human behavior persists.

Good lord we've gone from opinion pieces to creative writing samples. focus nikka

 

[DrBanneker]

@MeachTheMonster

Yo keep it classy

This ain't TLR

 

[DrBanneker]

Problem is, this isn’t true. Even with “sexual liberation” casual sex is way down. Which is why birth rates are down.

This is true...BUT you notice the difference between East Asia (or Greece/Israel) and most of the West?

Everyone's birth rate is down but OOW kids are still a choice. In Asia, that choice is heavily stigmatized. There is a lot of conception outside marriage in Asia but they get married before term. The downside of this is their fertility is in the tank. Like Hong Kong and Singapore barely have 1 child per woman. So the stable family for children is offset by a population wide collapse in fertility.

The largest region for the rise of OOW among AAs is not fertility amongst unmarried women. That has continuously dropped since the 1970s except for teenagers in the 1990s. What is happening is the rate of marriage fell and also the fertility of married AA couples has cratered (not sure why). So the OOW rate can climb even as fertility drops. You see this in other societies as well.

 

[DrBanneker]

Just one more thing for the discussion. I didn't know it would get so deep but there is actually a mathematical relationship for all this

In demography you usually break the child-bearing female population (ages 15-45) into 5 year buckets, like 30-35 yo etc.

Demographers have a relation that shows:

Age-specific fertility (i.e. children per 1,000 women in a 5-year age group) x the % of children born in wedlock = marital fertility rate (children per 1,000 married women) x the percentage of women married in that 5-year age group

So fertility can drop and the % of children in wedlock can also drop if marital fertility and the proportion of women are dropping.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

This is true...BUT you notice the difference between East Asia (or Greece/Israel) and most of the West?

Everyone's birth rate is down but OOW kids are still a choice. In Asia, that choice is heavily stigmatized. There is a lot of conception outside marriage in Asia but they get married before term. The downside of this is their fertility is in the tank. Like Hong Kong and Singapore barely have 1 child per woman. So the stable family for children is offset by a population wide collapse in fertility.

The largest region for the rise of OOW among AAs is not fertility amongst unmarried women. That has continuously dropped since the 1970s except for teenagers in the 1990s. What is happening is the rate of marriage fell and also the fertility of married AA couples has cratered (not sure why). So the OOW rate can climb even as fertility drops. You see this in other societies as well.

“Asia” is too broad a term to mean anything.

In some Asian cultures abortion is not only socially accepted but encouraged.

“marriage” doesn’t mean the same thing legally and/or culturally around the world.

To make broad number comparisons without considering context. Is to miss the point.

 

[DrBanneker]

“Asia” is too broad a term to mean anything.

This is true...BUT you notice the difference between East Asia (or Greece/Israel) and most of the West?

I mentioned East Asia, or in particular NE Asia (Japan/Korea/China/Taiwan/HK) but maybe I should have kept it consistent saying East Asia in the whole post.

Yes, you can generalize about Northeast Asia. Not a single one of them has an OOW rate exceeding 5%.

HOWEVER, marriage is declining there as well (as the lower charts indicated) so now their fertility is cratering.

 

[ogc163]

@DrBanneker Do you have any links breaking down childbearing among the college-educated/professional-managerial class?

 

[phcitywarrior]

@DrBanneker Do you have any links breaking down childbearing among the college-educated/professional-managerial class?

Man, I enjoy Indra Nooyi’s talks. She has great insight from her term at Pepsi. I was fortunate to see her talk in person when I was in college.

I think this bit was also on a Freakonomics podcast oven (The Secret Lives of a CEO).

 

[Youseenmywork]

I love the women that go the way to tell you that they " homebodies"