Coli centrists, what's so great about centrism: come in here and sell us on your political leaning

[ogc163]

Centrists are stopping the country from being overrun by lunatic traditionalist right wingers, if there was a persuasive and influential alternative on the left (via progressivism) or the right ( via a silicon valley like libertarianism) I would be embrace the undermining of centrism.

But, the issue progressives in this thread seemingly prefer to avoid is that they are not good at being persuasive to the average American voter. And that leads people like myself to rather deal with the centrists than progressives who too often care more about being "right" than being persuasive.

However, even if the fickle counterargument is made that centrism has failed to inspire and thus the lack of inspratio has lead to GOP gains, progressives still have to contend with the fact that they consistently get beaten by the centrists. Thus, if you consistently racking up L's to the vanilla ass politicians that embody the centrist left, maybe it would be beneficial to acknowledge and figure out why the progressive message doesn't seem to scale.

Sadly I expect the same set of excuses and rationalizations from progressives on this site about why they struggle to overcome such a mediocore set of messaging-- corporate media, Americans being dumb, and the lack of money--and get aggy when you make it clear it doesn't make sense to bet on them when time, resources, energy are limited and it's an accepted premise that the political game is comes with considerable constraints.

And so I'd rather deal with the group that operated within those constraints byway of tradeoffs versus progessivds who think moral grandstanding serving as the foundation of their strategy is likely to move the needle despite consistent evidence that doesn't work.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

The way I look at it, centrism has been framed by the media as the winning ticket, but I'm not convinced. We're told that pushing rightwards is what is going to appeal to the most people, but I don't believe that most people actually want that for this country.

that's not true, it's about splitting the difference between the extremes, unfortunately the right is more extreme and has more gravitational pull, so some conversations shift right. but overall our electoral system at the national/congressional level gives the right much more power, the left can't shift the country left by all congregating in denver, austin, SF, NY, LA, Seattle, ATL, and every other blue enclave leaving damn near every other county/district to the right. congressional districting (and the electoral college) favors the right...so "the left" either needs to move (geographically) or we need to redesign our entire political system and you know that's not happening or dems who have a shot at keeping those districts from going full tea party are going to have to be centrists (this comes in many different forms)

 

[CrimsonTider]

So what shyt have centrists who make up 99 percent of democrats gotten done?

Not being republicans

 

[Pressure]

What’s so great about any part of the spectrum? Don’t people just align to the area that promotes the policies/approach/stance they believe in? Why does it have to be defended as great as opposed to “well that’s just what I think the best policy solution is”?

This. People struggle with the idea that voters are largely self interested and align with what they feel is best.

 

[Jalether]

A centrist may feel like we should make drugs cheaper while not wanting a nationalized medical system, they may feel like let’s legalize weed to get rid of superfluous sentencing but property crimes still need to be prosecuted, they may seek to regulate an industry but not highly tax it, they’re not into providing social benefits to illegal immigrants, etc etc. the middle of the road is a belief system, maybe it doesn’t come across as impassioned as someone fully on the right or left, but they see a path down the middle.

That's all well and good but I have noticed that centrists never show this level of moderation,restraint,cautiousness or whatever you want to call it
when it comes to helping out corporations or funding the military and wars and anything to do with capitalism.

When it's time to help the working and middle class is when the restraint usually comes out. if I didn't know any better I would think centrists show their moderation selectively and are full of shyt

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

That's all well and good but I have noticed that centrists never show this level of moderation,restraint,cautiousness or whatever you want to call it
when it comes to helping out corporations or funding the military and wars and anything to do with capitalism.

When it's time to help the working and middle class is when the restraint usually comes out. if I didn't know any better I would think centrists show their moderation selectively and are full of shyt

ehh, i think anti military supporters overestimate the number of people in this country - citizens and pols - who want to see us or care about us spending less on the military, it is what it is. then you have apathetic people like me who know even if we cut spending, that money won't be passed through to QoL programs, like i just don't expect Washington to wake up and be like "a ha, we cut $10B from the military now we have the money for free childcare"...nah, at best we just saved $10B, we're not spending it elsewhere

as for selective moderation, i dont think that's true, people just like to focus on the centrists who walk the line on topics they care about. your biggest gripe seems to be about them supporting capitalism when our economic system is just that. not sure why you expect most people who grow up one way to reject that model. of course those who feel capitalism works/is good, but see room for a few incremental tweaks, will advocate for $10hr vs $15, to you, that's not a moderate approach, it's full on right wing support of big business, but to them, $10 is a compromise to both support business and make life better for workers.

overall, all the finger wagging, ire, bucketing etc of people into these hard political lines is silly. most people who take the time to formulate an opinion on all the various topics that fall into the political realm don't neatly align top to bottom to one group. seems more beneficial to stop shaming people over the things yall don't agree on and instead try to lure them over based on the areas where yall do agree

 

[mc_brew]

i'm a centrist, but not a McCentrist.... i don't see how we can govern our country based on my values.... i can live my life based on my values, but we have to govern our country based on our values.... which means when it comes to governing this country, i have to compromise with others i disagree with in order to get concessions for things i do agree with....

compromise is not always the watered down middle between two ideas, sometimes it's giving up on one fight completely to win another fight... (i.e.: i would give up on the gun control fight and even advocate for expanding gun rights in order to win at implementing universal health care)

i don't see a complete progressive agenda winning the entire nation when tens of millions of people are vehemently opposed to progressivism.... it means we have to find areas of agreement and push for those.... now, that doesn't mean that our McPoliticians actually do this in good faith, but i still don't see how we can progress without any concessions of any kind.... that's just crazy....

 

[the cac mamba]

Now what do centrists actually stand for.

actually winning elections, outside of dark blue areas. by appealing to a broader range of people

as far as policy, it depends on the issue. i agree with republicans on a few issues. i agree with democrats on most issues

 

[mc_brew]

also, let me add this... the reason it seems like republicans are winning is because roughly 40% of the country is partisan republican and another roughly 40% is partisan democrat....

there are only two ways to govern that dynamic
1) find common ground and to compromise.... which is what...? centrism.... the center between two extremes...
2) force the one side to live based on the other side's values... which side is more likely to do that...?

bottom line, the republicans are far more like to be for forcing the other side to live by its values than democrats are... what does that look like...?

democrats are for lgbtq+ rights.... that means if two men or two women want to get married, democrats support that... they don't support forcing two men to get married, just their choice to do so.... republicans are for forcing gay people to become straight....

democrats are pro-choice... that means if a woman wants to have an abortion, she should have access to one.... democrats don't support forcing a woman to have an abortion, just her choice to do do.... republicans are for forcing her to carry the baby to term, even in cases of rape and incest, and life of the mother...

see the difference...? the left is more prone to centrism by default than the right is... the left doesn't want to impose its morality on the right, the right has no problem imposing their morality on the left....

 

[the cac mamba]

bottom line, the republicans are far more like to be for forcing the other side to live by its values than democrats are... what does that look like...?

democrats are for lgbtq+ rights.... that means if two men or two women want to get married, democrats support that... they don't support forcing two men to get married, just their choice to do so.... republicans are for forcing gay people to become straight....

democrats are pro-choice... that means if a woman wants to have an abortion, she should have access to one.... democrats don't support forcing a woman to have an abortion, just her choice to do do.... republicans are for forcing her to carry the baby to term, even in cases of rape and incest, and life of the mother...

see the difference...?

now do covid

 

[mc_brew]

now do covid

what the fukk.....? even during the covid pandemic democrats didn't support forcing women to abort their babies and become lesbians.... be gone clown....

 

[the cac mamba]

what the fukk.....? even during the covid pandemic democrats didn't support forcing women to abort their babies and become lesbians.... be gone clown....

yeah, no shyt. you're talking about "forcing'"

so which party was forcing the vaccine? forcing masks? forcing businesses to close? and all for barely more effective results than the party that just left people alone?

just keeping your point in perspective

 

[OfTheCross]

yeah, no shyt. you're talking about "forcing'"

so which party was forcing the vaccine? forcing masks? forcing businesses to close? and all for barely more effective results than the party that just left people alone?

just keeping your point in perspective

Democrats asked, no one was forced

 

[the cac mamba]

Democrats asked, no one was forced

this is a blatant lie

i'll tell you one good thing about being a centrist; you get to look at both parties objectively

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Centrism is probably the best way to get elected in most of America.

There's little evidence of that. Reagan, Bush, and Trump all won presidencies by running to the right of their opponents. Bobby Kennedy (R.I.P.) and Obama ran to the left and were extremely popular doing it. Meanwhile, the Dems and Republicans both have pushed a LOT of centrists over the last 20 years (Kerry, McCain, Romney, Clinton, Jeb and company) and the only one who succeeded was Biden, who was pretty much handed the election without campaigning on substance or personality.

Once in power, you can actually change things for the better.

As a centrist, I'm for winning elections over everything.

Can you name ANYONE who ran as a centrist and then improved things for the better on their own initiative when they entered office? As opposed to being forced in that direction by public sentiment?

Feels like more often we see presidents like Clinton and Obama, who rather than running center and then moving left to "change things for the better", actually governed further to the center-right than they had ever campaigned on.