Coli centrists, what's so great about centrism: come in here and sell us on your political leaning

[voiture]

The beauty is that it can stand for anything you want it to. Depending on your beliefs and constituency you can dress it up as lean-left or lean-right.

Centrism is a scam.
Who did you vote for in the 2 last general two elections?

 

[voiture]

I caught a 'centrist' scammer at my old job who has voted for right wing candidates his whole life. You push them on tough social issues and who they have voted for and you will see a 'pattern.'

 

[Professor Emeritus]

That isn't the argument because that was never the threshold. As you pointed out yourself, Bernie was supposed to unlock so many low turnout voter groups that he would outweigh his lag with other, more traditional dem groups.

He didn't in 2016 and as Dora pointed out, he didnt in 2020 either.

More disingenuous bullshyt. In a general election it's not a "this dem group vs. that dem group" choice, the traditional dem groups AUTOMATICALLY vote for the dem candidate while the mobilization of lower-turnout groups are all pure advantage. Bernie Sanders proved in both 2016 and 2020 that he could kick ass in getting turnout among young voters, independent voters, working-class white voters, and latino voters, groups that the dems have struggled to get turnout from in recent general elections. Since the vast majority of traditional dems are going to be along for the ride in the general (especially with Trump as the opponent), any claim that he would have struggled is beginning to look farcical and motivated by nothing more than media narratives. In head-to-head general election polling he repeatedly bodied Trump more than all other Dem candidates AND he's getting the turnout advantage, on what universe is that not a massive win?

Primaries are a completely different animal because the traditional dems are working against you rather than for you - but ability to pull traditional dems is virtually irrelevant to general election performance. And yet Bernie still got so much non-traditional turnout that he repeatedly outweighed the traditional dems in both 2016 and 2020 until the establishment put their thumb on the scale, despite major disadvantages in both races (an extremely late start in 2016 and the entire field and media working against him in 2020).

Let's just replace Republicans with democrats since we're talking about the primary.

Bernie Sanders' Call For Young Voters Isn't Working Out The Way He Planned

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders acknowledged this week that the young voters he's been counting on to boost his candidacy have not shown up at the polls in the strong numbers he had been hoping for.

www.npr.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/22/younger-votes-didnt-come-through-for-bernie-sanders-because-they-almost-never-do/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/insiders-recount-how-sanders-lost-the-black-vote--and-the-nomination-slipped-away/2020/03/24/2b7b8b8e-685e-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html

The Establishment Didn’t Destroy Bernie Sanders

He destroyed himself.

slate.com

You're doing a great job of proving the media didn't line up to stop him.

Your low-research dumbass didn't even check to see that one of those articles was written after just the 3rd primary in 2016, when despite starting his campaign years after Clinton he'd managed 50-50 performance in Iowa and a win in New Hampshire but then lost Nevada. That writer wrote that bullshyt BEFORE Bernie stormed on to wins in Colorado, Minnesota, Maine, Oklahoma, Vermont, Kansas, Nebraska, Idaho, Utah, Alaska, Hawaii, Washington, Wyoming, Rhode Island, West Virginia, Oregon, Montana, North Dakota, Indiana, Wisconsin, and, shockingly, Michigan, in large part by getting massive youth turnout.

Media desperate to speak that shyt into existence and jumped the gun, your dumbass picked that obvious push piece as your evidence.

The 2020 pieces are the same ones Dora used, once again ignoring that his youth turnout was GREAT while the race was still in question, and only dropped when the establishment ganged up on him and young people got cynical watching them put their finger on the scale and take the election out of their hands yet again.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

that wasn't the claim, the claim was if Bernie who was able to invigorate the youth couldn't do it again with more years to prepare and more resources, why should that be a demographic that's counted on? how many phantom candidates are going to do that for congressional and presidential elections? and repeatedly?

that is all

But he DID do it again. That's why your claim makes no fukking sense.

Bernie was responsible for all-time record youth turnout in Iowa 2020 and dominated a huge youth turnout in New Hampshire 2020 and Nevada 2020 too. The youth didn't stop voting for him until the Media + Establishment + every other candidate teamed together to tell them the election was over and they weren't going to get a say.

So long as the election was still in question, young people were coming out really well. But guess what - cynical low-turnout groups tend to give up easily when you fukk them over, take power out of their hands, and tell them their voices don't matter. You'd think that would be a reason to stop doing it.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

But he DID do it again. That's why your claim makes no fukking sense.

Bernie was responsible for all-time record youth turnout in Iowa 2020 and dominated a huge youth turnout in New Hampshire 2020 and Nevada 2020 too. The youth didn't stop voting for him until the Media + Establishment + every other candidate teamed together to tell them the election was over and they weren't going to get a say.

So long as the election was still in question, young people were coming out really well. But guess what - cynical low-turnout groups tend to give up easily when you fukk them over, take power out of their hands, and tell them their voices don't matter. You'd think that would be a reason to stop doing it.

so this is who you trust in a general...and no one took power, you're supposed to be more mobilized if you opponent gets stronger. basically trust front runners to get the dems across the finish line...got it

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

The beauty is that it can stand for anything you want it to. Depending on your beliefs and constituency you can dress it up as lean-left or lean-right.

This isn’t a good thing lmao

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

shyt isn't that simple locally.

You can want UBI, but you're just 1 rep in Congress or 1 vote in your Commission. Gonna have to compromise.

You can want to cut the defense budget, but you don't want to lose the jobs in your district or city. Gonna have to compromise.

You can be a centrist and a populist. Like I said, that's the beauty of it. We know what the extremes of each party want. Anything other than that is in the middle.

Extremism is wanting people to have healthcare and not go bankrupt from a doctors visit folks.

Just as bad as wanting a white ethnostate. This is why “centrists”( They’re right wingers call em that) are full of shyt

 

[Professor Emeritus]

so this is who you trust in a general...and no one took power, you're supposed to be more mobilized if you opponent gets stronger.

In a two-party system, those who control the parties HAVE taken outsized power. Especially when they control the establishment media as well. In both 2016 and 2020 we pointed out how the Establishment used their power to fukk over the candidate they didn't want to win, and the excuse given in these very pages was "Well too bad, the Democratic powers have a right to choose their own candidate". Which if that's the case then I don't want to hear this bullshyt about "But the progressives aren't persuasive enough!"

basically trust front runners to get the dems across the finish line...got it

Goddamn you're trying to use shytty Coliseum hot takes in HL.

Your random slur is ironic as fukk because if anyone is a frontrunner, it's those who voted for Biden and Clinton solely because "we thought they would win". And if anyone's not a frontrunner, it's the millions of voters who went for Bernie despite his underdog status and massive structural disadvantages.

But yes, once again, if you take hope away then voters without hope will give up more quickly. This has been true of the Black electorate for decades, it's one reason they consistently trail in turnout and why the "both sides" non-voters have actual persuasive power. But apparently you don't really give a shyt about that so much.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Note the topic is "What's so great about centrism", and centrists were given an opportunity to sell their ideology to us.

We're 145 comments into the thread, and the best answer any of them have come up with (according to their own daps) is "Progressives aren't persuasive enough". Which is ironic because they've had 10 pages to persuade us why their positions are better and most of them can't do anything other than troll and misrepresent the progressive argument. Nothing about how their ideology will actually help the country, nothing about their actual positions, no pretense to caring about the Black community or the marginalized poor or working class or environment or any other area of need. Just, "we're the best cause we're your only option!"

Unironically, this is the exact same tact they've taken in the general election for seven consecutive election cycles, with underwhelming results.

It's interesting watching the need to be morally superior undermine the populist argument.

the irony would be hilarious if it wasn’t so incessantly thick

If there's one thing we can agree on, it's that the two of you haven't made any pretense towards acting morally. You sound proud.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

An interesting thread would be who are the progressive candidates we should be looking at in 2024 on a national level. HL has us well educated on the shytiness of our current political sludge, but I’m all ears to hear who they think can unite the nation

Probably too early, but you know who recently came to my mind as one of the best answers right now?

Was elected mayor four straight times in a 75% Black town, already won a statewide election in Pennsylvania, is favored to win another state-wide election in Pennsylvania this year despite bad conditions for Democrats, the youth like him, working-class voters like him, his wife is Latina, and he's got the no-fukks-given attitude that's been the rage with voters recently. If he bodies the Rust Belt while increasing youth turnout, making inroads to working-class whites, and maintaining current-or-better Black and Latino majorities, then what's the downside?

Obviously it would make more sense for him to serve 6 years in the Senate first to introduce himself to Americans before running in 2028. He could even give the keynote at the 2024 DNC convention a la Obama 20 years earlier.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

you do know these were all local mandates? the state didn't make the decisions, and pretty much every medium to large city had mandates at some point, red and blue alike, but please feel free to cheerlead the protocol of 2600 person towns

Don’t entertain someone who doesn’t think public health isn’t a government matter. The people pushing “leave people alone and don’t tell them what do do during a pandemic!!!!!” Are Some of the dumbest people on the face of the planet and he’s no different

 

[ogc163]

This turned out exactly like I predicted.

 

[Pressure]

Get some rest @Rhakim.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

In a two-party system, those who control the parties HAVE taken outsized power. Especially when they control the establishment media as well. In both 2016 and 2020 we pointed out how the Establishment used their power to fukk over the candidate they didn't want to win, and the excuse given in these very pages was "Well too bad, the Democratic powers have a right to choose their own candidate". Which if that's the case then I don't want to hear this bullshyt about "But the progressives aren't persuasive enough!"





Goddamn you're trying to use shytty Coliseum hot takes in HL.

Your random slur is ironic as fukk because if anyone is a frontrunner, it's those who voted for Biden and Clinton solely because "we thought they would win". And if anyone's not a frontrunner, it's the millions of voters who went for Bernie despite his underdog status and massive structural disadvantages.

But yes, once again, if you take hope away then voters without hope will give up more quickly. This has been true of the Black electorate for decades, it's one reason they consistently trail in turnout and why the "both sides" non-voters have actual persuasive power. But apparently you don't really give a shyt about that so much.

a lot of words to say this demographic that is easily discouraged can't be counted on, and especially not repeatedly. got it

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

And to be clear, I don't need to sell you on my leanings. If the premise of the thread is to hold true, there are things I value that like to get accomplished and I don't have a problem who gets them done and I don't care if things I view as less important get sacrificed in the process.

Like people lol ur cool with people getting sacrificed say that out loud for the class