Christians Are Just Play Things For Their God

MMS

Intensity Integrity Intelligence
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@Hathaway

people read so much into life due to the own culture and point of view.

and then when most are shown an interpretation of the same information from another (just as valid) point of view they automatically reject it.

cognitive dissonance:



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example: jesus is called the shepherd.

what do shepherds do?

shepherds keep sheep safe so that the owner (and ONLY the owner) can slaughter them when he is ready.

shepherds are not good to sheep. they just protect the sheep from one kind of enemy to give them up to another kind of enemy.

:hubie:

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@Koichos

Genesis 30:34-43

34 And Laban said, Behold, I would it might be according to thy word.

35 And he removed that day the he goats that were ringstraked and spotted, and all the she goats that were speckled and spotted, and every one that had some white in it, and all the brown among the sheep, and gave them into the hand of his sons.

36 And he set three days' journey betwixt himself and Jacob: and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flocks.

37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.

38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.

39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.

40 And Jacob did separate the lambs, and set the faces of the flocks toward the ringstraked, and all the brown in the flock of Laban; and he put his own flocks by themselves, and put them not unto Laban's cattle.

41 And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods.

42 But when the cattle were feeble, he put them not in: so the feebler were Laban's, and the stronger Jacob's.

43 And the man increased exceedingly, and had much cattle, and maidservants, and menservants, and camels, and asses.
 

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my fault I'm not trying to misquote you...please clarify what you meant...

no. not repeating myself. just don't tell me what.i said and it won't happen again.

:hubie:

I'm having trouble reconciling how superposition and quantum computing tie into the discussion at hand. Can you clarify for me?

you don't understand superposition. superposition is physics.

superpositions allow for concurrent actions i.e. taking more than one action in 1 step.

quantum computing is just one application of this.

did I? well, here's the math used in the amoeba scenario calculations. Feel free to check it and let me know where assumptions were made....

Let Tp represent the average time it would take for a usable protein of length n to form.

Let Tu represent the time it would take for the amoeba to haul the whole universe one atom per round trip.

Then the quantity U (number of universes hauled) is Tp ÷ Tu . If Tp > Tu , then the amoeba can haul more than 1 universe. If Tp < Tu, the amoeba can only haul a fraction of the universe.

Let’s look in detail at the factors involved in calculating Tp and Tu.

a = number of amino acid types used in proteins (20, only considering canonical types, since those are the only types that remained after the origin of life.)

n = number of amino acids in the target protein chain. Set as a constant, 150. (most protein chains range from 153 to 283 amino acids in length to we're being conservative.)

r = rate of chain formation in each set per year. At 1 per second, that’s 3.15 x 10^7 chains per year per set (60 seconds x 60 minutes x 24 hours x 365 days).

s = number of sets forming chains, limited by Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen on earth = 10^41

P = inverse probability of usable protein of length n. For n = 150 amino acids, this is 10^164. This is the number of trials required, on average, in which to expect a success.

Tp is calculated as: P/r*s

d = diameter of the universe in inches. 90 billion light-years (a common estimate) is 3.4 x 10^28 inches.

u = number of atoms in the universe. We use 10^80 atoms as stated above.

i = rate amoeba travels in inches per year. We use 1 foot, which is 12 inches per year.

Tu is calculated as: 2d*u/i

U = Tp / Tu
is therefore: P/r⋅s / 2d*u/i

Simplifying, this becomes P*I/2d*u*r*s

Substituting quantities, this results in:

U = 10^164*12 / (3.4*10^28)⋅(10^80)⋅(3.15*10^7)⋅(10^41)

= 5.6 x 10^7 = 56,000,000 universes (56 million)

in the time for a protein molecule to form.

when you said

"the amoeba could transport the entirety of the observable universe, atom by atom, from one side to the other over 56,000,000 times before a single protein could form by random chance.."

you are assuming serialising events.

superpositions allow for concurrent events.

waveform collapse is delayed until observation aka measurement.

It’s important to note that with the probability so vanishingly small, no amount of reasonable adjustment of the inputs will make a difference to the conclusion. For instance, if the waiting time for a protein to self-assemble was reduced drastically so that the amoeba could only haul one universe, or half a universe, chance still would be a wholly inadequate explanation.

shor's algorithm is an example of a universe-timescale process (factoring) made polynomial time tractable by exploiting superposition (i.e. multiple things at once).






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clear now?
 

Born Rich

triple entendre, don't ask me how...
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no. not repeating myself. just don't tell me what.i said and it won't happen again.

:hubie:

not sure why you feel the need to be combative...you wouldn't be repeating yourself since you never actually provided any alernative explanations other than God...

you don't understand superposition. superposition is physics.

superpositions allow for concurrent actions i.e. taking more than one action in 1 step.

quantum computing is just one application of this.

again not sure why you feel the need to be condescending...you didn't appreciate me misunderstanding what you said, yet you have no issue telling me what I don't know...knida hypocritical, no? If we can't engage in intellectual discourse without a reciprocal level of respect, then I won't continue to engage with you...

in the time for a protein molecule to form.

when you said

"the amoeba could transport the entirety of the observable universe, atom by atom, from one side to the other over 56,000,000 times before a single protein could form by random chance.."

you are assuming serialising events.

superpositions allow for concurrent events.

waveform collapse is delayed until observation aka measurement.



shor's algorithm is an example of a universe-timescale process (factoring) made polynomial time tractable by exploiting superposition (i.e. multiple things at once).






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clear now?


unfortunately no...I asked ChatGPT in what ways is superposition relevant for the origin of life and here's what it said...

Quantum superposition, a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics, describes a situation where particles, such as electrons or photons, exist in multiple states or locations simultaneously until they are observed or measured. This concept is typically discussed in the context of physics and has implications for various fields, including quantum computing and quantum cryptography.

Relevance to the Origin of Life:​

While quantum superposition itself is primarily a concept within quantum mechanics, there are speculative theories and research areas that explore its potential relevance to the origin of life:

  1. Quantum Biology:
    • Photosynthesis: Quantum effects, including superposition, are known to play a role in the efficiency of energy transfer during photosynthesis. The process by which plants convert light into chemical energy involves quantum coherence, where particles exist in multiple states simultaneously.
    • Enzyme Catalysis: Some researchers suggest that quantum tunneling, a phenomenon where particles pass through energy barriers they traditionally shouldn't be able to, might play a role in enzyme catalysis, enhancing the speed and efficiency of biochemical reactions essential for life.
  2. Quantum Effects in Early Biochemistry:
    • Prebiotic Chemistry: There is ongoing research into how quantum effects might have influenced the formation of complex organic molecules from simpler precursors in the prebiotic world. Quantum mechanics could potentially affect chemical reaction rates and pathways, influencing the likelihood of forming the building blocks of life.
    • Chirality of Molecules: The preference for certain molecular chirality (handedness) in biological molecules like amino acids and sugars might be influenced by quantum effects. This is significant because life on Earth predominantly uses one chiral form over another, which could have implications for the origin of life.
  3. Theoretical Models:
    • Quantum Evolution: Some theoretical models propose that quantum superposition and entanglement could have played a role in the early stages of life's development, potentially influencing how biological systems evolved from non-living matter.
    • Quantum Coherence in Biological Systems: Research into quantum coherence in biological systems suggests that quantum effects could provide an advantage in the survival and reproduction of early life forms, potentially affecting the origin of life.

Current Understanding:​

The relevance of quantum superposition to the origin of life remains largely speculative and is an area of active research. While quantum effects are known to play roles in certain biological processes, their direct impact on the origin of life is not yet fully understood or accepted within the scientific community. The connection between quantum mechanics and biology is a cutting-edge interdisciplinary field that continues to explore these possibilities.

References:​


you're 100% right that superpostition is relegated to physics which is why it it wholly inadequate to explain the origin of life...

I'll even concede that I could be assuming serializing events...

in order for a protein to form, a highly sequenced chain of amino acids needs to bond to form a functional protein...there are 20 types of amino acids and the shortest amino acid chain length for a functional protein is about 150...

at the majority of the connection points there is a 1 in 20 or about a 5% chance the correct amino acid will connect in the chain...if even one sequence is off, the entire chain is broken and the assembly process starts over...

on a prebiotic earth with the perfect conditions and an abundance of the 20 amino acids this process of protein formation would be happening at a rate of 6 x 10^42 per minute...

that means in 4.6 billion years, the oldest estimated age of the Earth, the number of amino acid chains that don't fold (and therefore don't create a functional protein) would exceed 10^58...that falls significantly short of the 10^164 trials that would be necessary for a 150 amino acid chain to fold and form a protein...

superposition is not a viable explanation to reconcile this...the only rational explanation is the presence of information that instructs the amino acids to bond in the necessary ways to form a functional protein...

physics is unable to reconcile the abundance of coded information in even the simplest single-celled life forms...information exists outside of the domain of physics as its not composed of matter or energy therefore physics can't account for the presence of genetic information present within every form of life...matter and energy are simply mediums through which information is relayed, processed, and encoded...information theory expands on this in great detail...
 
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Virtuous_Brotha

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Christians are just a bunch of people afraid of not existing, there is no way a rational, intelligent modern human believest hat nonsense other than blind fear.
Nobody truly believes in religion imo (at least not word for word) humans are just incredibly tribal beings by nature and will always feel uplifted by being part of something. Atheism is a fairly lonely life and we are social creatures.
 

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not sure why you feel the need to be combative...you wouldn't be repeating yourself since you never actually provided any alernative explanations other than God...

again not sure why you feel the need to be condescending...

you are sending me chatGPT as proof.

how do expect me to respond?

it can't be first order proof because chatGPT does not know what it is talking about.

it is a parrot and lies and well as it outputs truth.

it is a probabilistic engine and before using it to base your arguments on you should at least understand how it works.

and check the output.

<snip too long - see original>

wrong. wrong. wrong. :ufdup:

firstly you don't understand how chatGPT works.

secondly you don't know what to ask chatGPT.

thirdly ... chatGPT breh .. seriously ... :mjlol: chatGPT is a stochastic parrot.

try this with chatgpt

a1. does many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics allow for faster protein formation over the entire system.

q2. but within the many worlds will one not exist where the unlikely events happen in closer succession

q3. yes but that means that across all worlds one will exist when proteins synthesise automatically faster

q4. yes but such a world will exist right?

Screenshot-2024-07-15-at-22-58-14.png


understand now?

reading:

 
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