Christian Brehs: Why would God make some people smarter than others?

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Do you "pick and choose" what you want to believe when you watch TV, or do you use your basic discernment to tell the difference? Is a new clip the same as a PSA? Mr. Rogers intended you to learn life lessons from everything he did, but could you tell which guests were describing their real lives and which ones were acting out a part?

The Bible is 66 books written by 40 different authors, I use my reading comprehension to understand what genre I'm reading. Stories like Job are obviously mythic tales, not exact histories:






Was there some human author sitting up there presenting on all this? Does the narrative claim that God dictated this whole story to a prophet? How about all the later poetic speeches by minor characters that go on for pages and pages and perfectly serve the story, are those supposed to have been transcribed by someone present? Of course not - it's clearly just a parable, a tale that shows how how the followers of Yahweh were contemplating the problem of evil.

Same goes for the stories that Jesus tells - sometimes he's clearly talking about real people, other times he's clearly telling parables. They aren't the same thing.

I don't put tales like this, or stories written down by people 1000 years after the "events" in them were supposed to have occurred, on the same level as first-person accounts told by people who were there. If you read the Bible with your mind open at all, you can clearly see that some of the stories are clearly meant to be mythic and others are clearly meant to be real accounts. Of course, some others are more ambiguous, and then you have to use your own discernment, just as you do with everything that is written down in history.
I don't think you can compare watching TV to a religious book. Hundreds of things to watch and there isnt a dogma attached to it.

I'm curious to know which ones you feel are accurate accounts. Are all supernatural parts myths to you? If not why?

I posted this in another
Speaking of Job

 

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I don't think you can compare watching TV to a religious book. Hundreds of things to watch and there isnt a dogma attached to it.

That's a red herring. I gave the specific example of Mr. Rogers. He's a Presbyterian minister, doing a television show to help children learn how to live better lives. The show mixes fantasy elements to demonstrate lessons, along with examples of real people and their real lives. Even a child is expected to be able to understand that some parts of the show are fantasy and some are real.....and if they don't, there's no real harm done, either way the lesson is taught.

That's how real art has always worked. The fact that it is religious doesn't change that.




I'm curious to know which ones you feel are accurate accounts. Are all supernatural parts myths to you? If not why?

The letters in the New Testament are clearly written from real people to other real people, about the real situations they face. The Acts of the Apostles is written by a contemporary participant in all those historical events, going to lengths to detail real people and what they really faced. Same goes for the Synoptic Gospels, such as Luke who expliticitly says, "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." Though the fact that the events are real doesn't mean that every parable Jesus tells in those gospels really happened, parables in general are clearly meant to be stories designed to impart a spiritual message, not dictation of historical events. And I wouldn't doubt that the gospel writers condensed or streamlined certain events, or reported dialogue as best as could be understood to fill out the story, rather than perfectly recreating events. The gospel of John (not a synoptic gospel) seems to take a lot more liberties than the others

In terms of the Old Testament, I don't doubt that many of the prophets were writing of things that were happening in real time, and the histories appear to be based on historical accounts of the respective kings along with other oral traditions. But the further they get from the actual events in question, the less likely they are to be based directly on historical accounts. When it comes to the "type" of literature, it's pretty obvious to me that Job and the first 10 chapters of Genesis are meant to be mythological, not historical - the first chapter and the second chapter of genesis don't even line up, they're two completely different accounts of the same start both clearly written by different authors, meant to impose different lessons, and not in any historical alignment at all.
 

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That's a red herring. I gave the specific example of Mr. Rogers. He's a Presbyterian minister, doing a television show to help children learn how to live better lives. The show mixes fantasy elements to demonstrate lessons, along with examples of real people and their real lives. Even a child is expected to be able to understand that some parts of the show are fantasy and some are real.....and if they don't, there's no real harm done, either way the lesson is taught.

That's how real art has always worked. The fact that it is religious doesn't change that.






The letters in the New Testament are clearly written from real people to other real people, about the real situations they face. The Acts of the Apostles is written by a contemporary participant in all those historical events, going to lengths to detail real people and what they really faced. Same goes for the Synoptic Gospels, such as Luke who expliticitly says, "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." Though the fact that the events are real doesn't mean that every parable Jesus tells in those gospels really happened, parables in general are clearly meant to be stories designed to impart a spiritual message, not dictation of historical events. And I wouldn't doubt that the gospel writers condensed or streamlined certain events, or reported dialogue as best as could be understood to fill out the story, rather than perfectly recreating events. The gospel of John (not a synoptic gospel) seems to take a lot more liberties than the others

In terms of the Old Testament, I don't doubt that many of the prophets were writing of things that were happening in real time, and the histories appear to be based on historical accounts of the respective kings along with other oral traditions. But the further they get from the actual events in question, the less likely they are to be based directly on historical accounts. When it comes to the "type" of literature, it's pretty obvious to me that Job and the first 10 chapters of Genesis are meant to be mythological, not historical - the first chapter and the second chapter of genesis don't even line up, they're two completely different accounts of the same start both clearly written by different authors, meant to impose different lessons, and not in any historical alignment at all.
Mr Rogers' Show wasn't claimed to be divinely inspired, though. Plenty of religious folks believe the Holy Bible to be true from beginning to end because they believe it was written with divine inspiration.

Funny you mention Luke and Acts of the Apostles because I was reading this

I admit that I'm a little confused on your stance. Are you stating that you just believe what you believe to be actual historical events and not the mysticism, angels, and otherworldly tellings?

I posted this in another thread that I think relates to what you typed



I haven't watched this yet but I'll post it since Luke was mentioned
 

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I'm an atheist but blame yo surroundings for your shortcomings . Maybe yo mom's or pops never prepared you to succeed in life . Good proactive parents teach their kids how to read , write , colors before they enter school g are proactive in their Rugrats school activities .
 
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Mr Rogers' Show wasn't claimed to be divinely inspired, though.

Why can't a parable be divinely inspired? The fact that you use a parable to teach a religious truth doesn't mean the events in the parable had to happen. It's just a teaching tool.

Personally, I don't think every individual verse of the Bible is divinely inspired, I think each book was written and compiled as the best understanding of God they had at the time. Jesus makes it pretty clear that many of the understandings that Jews had in the Old Testament days weren't accurate depictions of what God really wanted.





Plenty of religious folks believe the Holy Bible to be true from beginning to end because they believe it was written with divine inspiration.

Plenty of folk from all sorts of backgrounds believe all sorts of incorrect things. And?




I admit that I'm a little confused on your stance. Are you stating that you just believe what you believe to be actual historical events and not the mysticism, angels, and otherworldly tellings?

Your sentence is a bit confused and has a circular statement. What I said is that the parts of the Bible which are being described by eyewitnesses or those who can speak with eyewitnesses are more obviously intended to be depicting actual historical events than the stories that are just told as stories for which it is clear no one was around to witness them.





Funny you mention Luke and Acts of the Apostles because I was reading this

I only read halfway through before getting bored, but he seems to agree with me that Luke is written as a history.




I posted this in another thread that I think relates to what you typed



I haven't watched this yet but I'll post it since Luke was mentioned



I'm not going to watch random videos by a guy whose entire purpose in life is to destroy Christianity. I've already read Ehman in detail, he has decent historical knowledge on the Bible but he makes a lot of bad-faith arguments and approaches everything as if he's responding to Christian Fundamentalists without seriously acknowledging any more nuanced views.
 

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More like it's not the answer you want.

Why would God give everyone the the same intelligence? Every human is unique, which means they have varying levels of traits including intelligence. Why would God create a world where everyone and everything is the same? How bland would that be?

I honestly think this is the answer. Its not so much about what one person's intelligence level is versus another. Every human is unique, every human has a different level of intelligence and every human has a spiritual journey that they will go on in this world (or not if they so choose). My spiritual journey/intelligence level will not necessarily be the same as the next man, and I am ok with that. God has a plan that goes way beyond the highest level of intelligence on this planet.
 

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Why can't a parable be divinely inspired? The fact that you use a parable to teach a religious truth doesn't mean the events in the parable had to happen. It's just a teaching tool.
Personally, I don't think anything is divinely inspired. I still fail to see how you can treat watching Mr Rogers the same as being religious and reading the Bible


Personally, I don't think every individual verse of the Bible is divinely inspired, I think each book was written and compiled as the best understanding of God they had at the time. Jesus makes it pretty clear that many of the understandings that Jews had in the Old Testament days weren't accurate depictions of what God really wanted.

Do you believe the virgin birth to be a myth?



Plenty of folk from all sorts of backgrounds believe all sorts of incorrect things. And?
Do you think that Christianity was built on people knowing parts were myths? When I was in church (Southern Baptist) we were taught that parts were allegory tales or myths. It was presented as all facts.



Your sentence is a bit confused and has a circular statement. What I said is that the parts of the Bible which are being described by eyewitnesses or those who can speak with eyewitnesses are more obviously intended to be depicting actual historical events than the stories that are just told as stories for which it is clear no one was around to witness them.

We don't even have that. Paul didn't know or live near Jesus.



I only read halfway through before getting bored, but he seems to agree with me that Luke is written as a history.

Written as a history but not factual



I'm not going to watch random videos by a guy whose entire purpose in life is to destroy Christianity. I've already read Ehman in detail, he has decent historical knowledge on the Bible but he makes a lot of bad-faith arguments and approaches everything as if he's responding to Christian Fundamentalists without seriously acknowledging any more nuanced views.
Here is a video from someone else covering what was in those two videos



Destroy it, not at all. He clearly loves it a lot. Just look at his educational background in it. He dedicated his adult life to learning it the history of the New Testament. None of the videos I have seen from him is he disparaging Christians or Christianity

At 7:20 and 29:00, wouldn't you agree with that? Does that sound like someone who is trying to destroy Christianity?


Curious to know what you considered are his bad faith arguments are
 
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I'm an atheist but blame yo surroundings for your shortcomings . Maybe yo mom's or pops never prepared you to succeed in life . Good proactive parents teach their kids how to read , write , colors before they enter school g are proactive in their Rugrats school activities .


what does this have to do with the OP breh?
 

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I honestly think this is the answer. Its not so much about what one person's intelligence level is versus another. Every human is unique, every human has a different level of intelligence and every human has a spiritual journey that they will go on in this world (or not if they so choose). My spiritual journey/intelligence level will not necessarily be the same as the next man, and I am ok with that. God has a plan that goes way beyond the highest level of intelligence on this planet.

but what if god did not give someone enough intelligence to understand what they need to understand?

what if the smarter know something important that the less-smart are unable to understand?

more generally how are people supposed to communicate when many are simple not capable of understanding what many others are trying to communicate?

that is a built-in recipe for i. people being misled with false information (that seems true to them) and 2. for misunderstandings between millions of people.

that would be like god making it so we saw different colors, in that it would prevent consensus about the state of the world.
 

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Personally, I don't think anything is divinely inspired. I still fail to see how you can treat watching Mr Rogers the same as being religious and reading the Bible

You're still missing the entire point of the argument. I'm asking you why adults shouldn't be expected to make a distinction that even small children can make.

Do you believe that religious texts can use parables or not? Yes or no?




Do you believe the virgin birth to be a myth?

I think there's a chance it's mythological, it is portrayed very differently than the rest of the gospels. But I'm not tied to either view - it seems to me that it was believed as true from a very early period though.




Do you think that Christianity was built on people knowing parts were myths? When I was in church (Southern Baptist) we were taught that parts were allegory tales or myths. It was presented as all facts.

I don't think the same sort of dichotomy existed in that period and culture - it's a Western imposition. Things can be true whether or not they happened historically because there is a truth to lessons and moral tales that goes far behind the abstracted detailing of events. Look at Native American myths - do you believe that the average Native American listening to those myths spent mental energy worrying about whether they were "historical" or not? That's a worry that entered when Western mindsets were imposed.

Looking at Christian history, you can look back at least as far as St. Augustine (4th century) and see him insisting that much of the Old Testament is allegorical. (Augustine, of course, was quite Western in his philosophical background).






We don't even have that. Paul didn't know or live near Jesus.

That doesn't make any sense. First off, we don't rely on Paul for anything we believe about Jesus. And second, Paul knew the closest followers of Jesus intimately - first as their prosecutor, later as their close companion - so he certainly had information about Jesus from firsthand witnesses.




Does that sound like someone who is trying to destroy Christianity?

As others have pointed out, the central message of nearly all of his popular books is, "This is why the Christian message is false, and I should know because I used to be one, but I realized the truth and rejected it." For the most part, his books don't even have a consistent theme otherwise - his book on textual varients is based on an entirely different type of scholarship than his book on attributing authorship, and both of those are completely different than his book on the question of evil. But every time, no matter how different the book, the answer in the end is always, "And THIS is why I don't believe in Christianity!"




Curious to know what you considered are his bad faith arguments are


Just four examples for now:

1. He frequently makes the claim, "Scholars believe that...." when what he really means is "The scholars that I agree with believe that...." His criteria for accepting the scholarship of others is not whether there is a consensus, or even a majority, widely-accepted position, but whether he likes their conclusions.
2. He frequently gives his opinion on a passage, without backing himself up with academic citations or using only very limited backing, and then proceeds from there assuming his opinion is true and using that opinion as the underlying proof for his further arguments.

3. He puts a ton of weight on his statement, "There are 400,000 errors in the Bible!" and many, many other claims about the sheer # of textual variants. No serious scholar would put any importance at all on those numbers, he full well knows that 99% are simple minor differences in spelling and grammar that have no impact on faith at all. Languages are imprecise and evolve, and humans aren't perfect. Even the differences that actually bear any sort of theological importance are relatively minor and few in number. How does that bear any relation on whether or not the Christian God exists?

4. He often implicitly argues his points as if he is responding to a fundamentalist Christian position, and then when he takes down that position he fails to give weight to the far more reasonable positions in the middle, acting as if in dismissing the fundamentalist position he's already done most of the work to dismiss Christianity entirely.


Here's a rather long essay by a different New Testament scholar which covers a lot of the various reasons that I don't put much weight on Ehrman's polemics.



I could keep
 

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You're still missing the entire point of the argument. I'm asking you why adults shouldn't be expected to make a distinction that even small children can make.

Do you believe that religious texts can use parables or not? Yes or no?






I think there's a chance it's mythological, it is portrayed very differently than the rest of the gospels. But I'm not tied to either view - it seems to me that it was believed as true from a very early period though.






I don't think the same sort of dichotomy existed in that period and culture - it's a Western imposition. Things can be true whether or not they happened historically because there is a truth to lessons and moral tales that goes far behind the abstracted detailing of events. Look at Native American myths - do you believe that the average Native American listening to those myths spent mental energy worrying about whether they were "historical" or not? That's a worry that entered when Western mindsets were imposed.

Looking at Christian history, you can look back at least as far as St. Augustine (4th century) and see him insisting that much of the Old Testament is allegorical. (Augustine, of course, was quite Western in his philosophical background).








That doesn't make any sense. First off, we don't rely on Paul for anything we believe about Jesus. And second, Paul knew the closest followers of Jesus intimately - first as their prosecutor, later as their close companion - so he certainly had information about Jesus from firsthand witnesses.






As others have pointed out, the central message of nearly all of his popular books is, "This is why the Christian message is false, and I should know because I used to be one, but I realized the truth and rejected it." For the most part, his books don't even have a consistent theme otherwise - his book on textual varients is based on an entirely different type of scholarship than his book on attributing authorship, and both of those are completely different than his book on the question of evil. But every time, no matter how different the book, the answer in the end is always, "And THIS is why I don't believe in Christianity!"







Just four examples for now:

1. He frequently makes the claim, "Scholars believe that...." when what he really means is "The scholars that I agree with believe that...." His criteria for accepting the scholarship of others is not whether there is a consensus, or even a majority, widely-accepted position, but whether he likes their conclusions.
2. He frequently gives his opinion on a passage, without backing himself up with academic citations or using only very limited backing, and then proceeds from there assuming his opinion is true and using that opinion as the underlying proof for his further arguments.

3. He puts a ton of weight on his statement, "There are 400,000 errors in the Bible!" and many, many other claims about the sheer # of textual variants. No serious scholar would put any importance at all on those numbers, he full well knows that 99% are simple minor differences in spelling and grammar that have no impact on faith at all. Languages are imprecise and evolve, and humans aren't perfect. Even the differences that actually bear any sort of theological importance are relatively minor and few in number. How does that bear any relation on whether or not the Christian God exists?

4. He often implicitly argues his points as if he is responding to a fundamentalist Christian position, and then when he takes down that position he fails to give weight to the far more reasonable positions in the middle, acting as if in dismissing the fundamentalist position he's already done most of the work to dismiss Christianity entirely.


Here's a rather long essay by a different New Testament scholar which covers a lot of the various reasons that I don't put much weight on Ehrman's polemics.



I could keep
We have to different viewpoints on religious dogma and media consumption.

What I'm trying to understand is how you can see some supernatural things as being myths but not the existence of the God in the Bible. I'm I right to assume you believe in the resurrection, too?



I'm sure St Augustine was raised believing in another religion. I'm sure most literate, educated people back then had similar views of the old testament that weren't raised with that religion. It would be the poor and uneducated that would've been believers. As centuries pass and Christianity spread more people started believing


Paul claimed he wasn't taught by the disciples or any other man, and that he converted because the spirit of Jesus came to him. He didn't meet Peter until after he was already preaching, if I'm not mistaken.


I haven't heard him say that. He mentions that what made him drop Christianity was because he couldn't justify it with all of the suffer. He also says that no one should lose their faith because of what he teaches.
I got a friend who got her degree in religious studies who told me they were told about questionable validity of 7 or so books in the New Testament. There's plenty of religious scholars who hold similar views and still kept their faith. I do see that there are scholars that are to the opposite of that and from what I read (like in the blog you linked) they seem to be more concerned about it damaging religion and breaking someone's faith.
In that blog, he acknowledges that Bart's views have been around for centuries. I think his strongest argument is the secretary claim. He spends a good chunk of the blog how of if the forgeries claim is real how it breaks the religion.
This section stuck out to me
I return to an earlier statement: For if the Resurrection is true, then Christianity is true. Period! Furthermore, if the Resurrection is true, and grounded in history as a real event, then it follows that God would also be able to communicate the truth of Christianity through Jesus’ followers, primarily the apostles and those within that early apostolic circle, to give us a New Testament that faithfully and accurately represents revealed teaching about the meaning, significance and importance of the Resurrection, that could be readily passed on from one generation to the next. It seems highly improbable that God would go through all of the trouble to raise Jesus from the dead, only to let the story about the Resurrection and the implications of that truth be partially lost or distorted within a set of documents where some 70% of that material was forged. That just does not seem to make a whole lot of sense.
Can a person truly go into this argument without bias with that viewpoint?

He later gives props to Bart, though
Secondly, it should be noted that non-believing scholars like Bart Ehrman, along with progressive-leaning Christians scholars surveyed in this blog series, including Oxford’s John Barton and Campbell University’s Jennifer Garcia Bashaw, are accomplished scholars who actually have something to offer to more historically orthodox-minded Christians. These scholars do take the Bible seriously. However, this should not diminish the significance of certain sharp disagreements they have with more conservative scholars.

Thirdly, many advocates of deconstruction within the church look to Ehrman (and others) as a “gateway drug” to unbelief. Bart Ehrman’s Forgery and Counterforgery marshalls together in one volume perhaps the best case for forgeries being present in the New Testament, more than any other work in English that I am familiar with. To say the least, Ehrman’s series of arguments are quite interesting, and have become quite persuasive among those once raised in Christian homes who now pursue a path of deconstruction.
 
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We have to different viewpoints on religious dogma and media consumption.

It's all media consumption. If you use your brain when watching Mr. Rogers, then turn it off when you read the Bible, there's a problem there.




What I'm trying to understand is how you can see some supernatural things as being myths but not the existence of the God in the Bible. I'm I right to assume you believe in the resurrection, too?

You're allowing your pre-existing beliefs to drive your interpretation, choosing to believe or disbelieve based on what you want to believe. I'm not calling something a myth vs. historical based on how "supernatural" it is, I'm basing it on how the text was written and who wrote it for what purpose. From there, you could choose to say that some authors were lying or whatever, but let's at least start off by being honest regarding which ones were written as myths and which ones were written as histories.




I'm sure St Augustine was raised believing in another religion. I'm sure most literate, educated people back then had similar views of the old testament that weren't raised with that religion. It would be the poor and uneducated that would've been believers. As centuries pass and Christianity spread more people started believing

Augustine's mother was a devout Christian, but he himself played around with many ideas before converting to Christianity in adulthood. I have no idea what you're trying to say though. You suggest that poor and uneducated people are often believers and....then what?





Paul claimed he wasn't taught by the disciples or any other man, and that he converted because the spirit of Jesus came to him. He didn't meet Peter until after he was already preaching, if I'm not mistaken.

You're referring to Galatians where Paul is defending his authority and saying you don't have to be an apostle who was with Christ to have authority to preach the Gospel. Paul is arguing that his direct experience with Christ gives him authority too. But he doesn't say that he was never taught by man. Even right in that same Galatians passage, he states that he spent 15 days with Peter soon after he became a Christian, and then it says that years later he went back to Jerusalem to compare notes and ensure he was preaching the gospel correctly. He also says that he was persecuting the Church before his conversion - something that would have regularly put him in contact with Gospel teachings. In Acts 7, it says that Saul was there while Stephen was preaching and then martyred, so he heard Stephen's message and likely heard plenty other sermons too. In Acts 9, it says that a disciple named Ananias was sent to Paul immediately after his conversion, and that he spent several days with disciples in Damascus before he started preaching. He then traveled to Jersusalem, met with the apostles (apparently for 15 days, according to Galatians), and traveled with other disciples for much of his ministry after that, such as Barnabas.

But once again, I struggle to see how this is relevant because we don't rely on Paul to understand who Jesus is, so why mention Paul?




Can a person truly go into this argument without bias with that viewpoint?
It reminds with of the science vs religion arguments.

No one goes into any of these arguments "without bias". The author didn't claim to be unbiased, and I doubt Bart Erhman does either (if he does, he's lying). As philosophers have noted for decades, the old claims of objectivity were always BS. As humans, our own viewpoint will always be subjective, the important part is to ensure we maintain integrity and strive for truth.
 

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It's all media consumption. If you use your brain when watching Mr. Rogers, then turn it off when you read the Bible, there's a problem there.






You're allowing your pre-existing beliefs to drive your interpretation, choosing to believe or disbelieve based on what you want to believe. I'm not calling something a myth vs. historical based on how "supernatural" it is, I'm basing it on how the text was written and who wrote it for what purpose. From there, you could choose to say that some authors were lying or whatever, but let's at least start off by being honest regarding which ones were written as myths and which ones were written as histories.

I would argue many do turn their brain off when reading the Bible. The same scrutiny they'll have for what's reported in the news, politics, history, etc. they don't apply it to the when reading the Bible.
It's all myths and half truths to me. Way better and more reliable sources for history out there.

Augustine's mother was a devout Christian, but he himself played around with many ideas before converting to Christianity in adulthood. I have no idea what you're trying to say though. You suggest that poor and uneducated people are often believers and....then what?

The poor and uneducated are the most likely to be complete believers. Believing in the creation story and all the things you don't believe in



You're referring to Galatians where Paul is defending his authority and saying you don't have to be an apostle who was with Christ to have authority to preach the Gospel. Paul is arguing that his direct experience with Christ gives him authority too. But he doesn't say that he was never taught by man. Even right in that same Galatians passage, he states that he spent 15 days with Peter soon after he became a Christian, and then it says that years later he went back to Jerusalem to compare notes and ensure he was preaching the gospel correctly. He also says that he was persecuting the Church before his conversion - something that would have regularly put him in contact with Gospel teachings. In Acts 7, it says that Saul was there while Stephen was preaching and then martyred, so he heard Stephen's message and likely heard plenty other sermons too. In Acts 9, it says that a disciple named Ananias was sent to Paul immediately after his conversion, and that he spent several days with disciples in Damascus before he started preaching. He then traveled to Jersusalem, met with the apostles (apparently for 15 days, according to Galatians), and traveled with other disciples for much of his ministry after that, such as Barnabas.

But once again, I struggle to see how this is relevant because we don't rely on Paul to understand who Jesus is, so why mention Paul?

I stand corrected then:hubie:
I mention Paul because of his importance to Christianity.


No one goes into any of these arguments "without bias". The author didn't claim to be unbiased, and I doubt Bart Erhman does either (if he does, he's lying). As philosophers have noted for decades, the old claims of objectivity were always BS. As humans, our own viewpoint will always be subjective, the important part is to ensure we maintain integrity and strive for truth.


The arises when you let your bias color findings that could be the truth. I'm sure Bart has a bias but he at least has shown that he is willing to accept something that goes against his bias. The author of that blog seemed like he was in and out with if there are forgeries or not in the new testament. He seemed more worried that if it's true then it would weaken Christianity (maybe that's more him thinking about himself) but he also notes that many progressive Christians believe it too
 

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I would argue many do turn their brain off when reading the Bible. The same scrutiny they'll have for what's reported in the news, politics, history, etc. they don't apply it to the when reading the Bible.

What does that have to do with anything? An author can only write what they write, they can't control someone misusing it 3000 years later. Suggesting that writers should stop using parable and allegory to get a message across is ridiculous, it would reduce spiritual teaching to the most banal and boring.

Even Biblical authors point out that some people will misuse or misunderstand other Biblical authors. Jesus points it out about parts of the Old Testament, one of the epistles of Peter says that some people don't understand the letters of Paul. That's part of being human and having free will. People misinterpret songs, they misinterpret children's shows, they misuse scientific findings. No writing is idiot-proof.




It's all myths and half truths to me. Way better and more reliable sources for history out there.

I have no idea what alternative source you'd go to for the life and teachings of Jesus, the 1st-century church community, or the history of Jewish thoughts about God.





The poor and uneducated are the most likely to be complete believers. Believing in the creation story and all the things you don't believe in

And?




The arises when you let your bias color findings that could be the truth. I'm sure Bart has a bias but he at least has shown that he is willing to accept something that goes against his bias. The author of that blog seemed like he was in and out with if there are forgeries or not in the new testament. He seemed more worried that if it's true then it would weaken Christianity (maybe that's more him thinking about himself) but he also notes that many progressive Christians believe it too

You suggest that the writer can't accept things that go against his bias, but you also admit that he's on the fence regarding whether the texts are pseudonymous or not. If he's willing to accept that the texts may be pseudonymous, doesn't that show he's willing to accept things that go against his bias?

Without reading a lot of his writing over time, or reading him saying something obviously false, I don't see how you could claim that he isn't willing to accept anything that goes against his bias.

Going back to the topic, what did you think of his argument that removing the potentially pseudonymous texts has little impact on Christian theology? Christians weren't operating in a vacuum, accepting letters and gospels at random and then believing whatever they said. They already knew about Jesus and what he taught from the reports of the apostles and other eyewitnesses right among them, which they taught to each other through the generations. They accepted letters/gospels that aligned with what they already knew to be true from those reports, and rejected ones that appeared to be making things up they had never heard Jesus or his disciples teach.
 
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