Chicago savages at it agian

[blackzeus]

A few things:

-the LA mob family never really "ran shyt" in California, they just had business there. It was way too small(because there wasn't a big Italian population there) and its leadership way too incompetent. They were called the Mickey Mouse Mafia for this reason.

- using FBI/DOJ terminology and classifications, powerful and organized street gangs would fall under the "criminal enterprise" banner and not under "organized crime"

Chicago DEA's Opinion

...The investigation was conducted under the umbrellas of the federal High Intensity Drug-Trafficking Area (HIDTA) Task Force and the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF)...

-neither the mob nor the cartels ever "controlled" the drug trade. That's also media bullshyt. What they did/do is supply. But the relationship between wholesaler and retailer is symbiotic. Neither controls the other. One can't make money without the other.

Why Mexico’s Sinaloa Cartel Loves Selling Drugs in Chicago | Chicago magazine | May 2014

In Chicago, the cartel has a near monopoly. “I’d say 70 to 80 percent of the narcotics here are controlled by Sinaloa and Chapo Guzmán,” says Jack Riley, director of the DEA’s Chicago office. “Virtually all of our major investigations at some point lead back to other investigations tied to Sinaloa.”

- the GDs don't rival the 60s mob in power. No criminal organization will ever have the power the mob once had in America(as opposed to 2nd or 3rd worlds, where it's much easier). It's not that the Italians were inherently superior criminals, they just were lucky enough to benefit from a unique set of circumstances(mass immigration, Prohibition and the Great Depression, the rise of the Labor Unions, J Edgar Hoover being a massive tool, the illegality of gambling, the lottery not existing, credit was hard to get etc.) that will never again be replicated.

No doubt, but we weren't talking about power, we were talking about organization. And yes the GDs were just as organized, and it's because of the splintering of said organization that I opine we need some old heads to calm sh*t down in the hoods today.[DOUBLEPOST=1397675284][/DOUBLEPOST]

I know...but when im up there now I mostly see Africans and other immigrants.

shyt, the whole northside used to be hood. Lakeview used to be a Mexican/Puerto Rican neighborhood.

I remember when nikkaz used to be like when you wanted to get on the L from the Clark station. Now that sh*t is full of Cubs fans at all hours

 

[Mr. Pink]

Why Mexico’s Sinaloa Cartel Loves Selling Drugs in Chicago | Chicago magazine | May 2014

In Chicago, the cartel has a near monopoly. “I’d say 70 to 80 percent of the narcotics here are controlled by Sinaloa and Chapo Guzmán,” says Jack Riley, director of the DEA’s Chicago office. “Virtually all of our major investigations at some point lead back to other investigations tied to Sinaloa.”

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Chapo doesn't "control" the drug trade. He's just the biggest supplier.
Can Chapo stop the drug trade? No, if he refuses to sell, someone else will step in and fill his shoes. Can Chapo sell more drugs than the retailers are willing to buy? No, that's up to the consumers. He can only fulfill the maximum demand. If the GDs want to buy 500 kilos per month, Chapo can't force them to buy 1000 kilos.
The cops use terms like "control" to show who has the largest market share. But just like in any other transaction, the supplier doesn't "control" it just because he's the supplier. He can choose not to sell, yes, but then he won't make money.

No doubt, but we weren't talking about power, we were talking about organization. And yes the GDs were just as organized, and it's because of the splintering of said organization that I opine we need some old heads to calm sh*t down in the hoods today.[DOUBLEPOST=1397675284][/DOUBLEPOST]

Fair enough. I jumped the gun on that one.

 

[blackzeus]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Chapo doesn't "control" the drug trade. He's just the biggest supplier.
Can Chapo stop the drug trade? No, if he refuses to sell, someone else will step in and fill his shoes. Can Chapo sell more drugs than the retailers are willing to buy? No, that's up to the consumers. He can only fulfill the maximum demand. If the GDs want to buy 500 kilos per month, Chapo can't force them to buy 1000 kilos.
The cops use terms like "control" to show who has the largest market share. But just like in any other transaction, the supplier doesn't "control" it just because he's the supplier. He can choose not to sell, yes, but then he won't make money.

Again, we're deviating from the point of this thread. But yes he does, that's why so many bodies were dropping in Laredo, you want to ship via Laredo, you need to pay taxes to Sinaloa, same like if you want to ship via Tijuana, you need to pay taxes to the Tijuana cartel. Someone stepping in to fill his shoes is easier said than done, just ask the Z's. And why would any real business man underworld or not force their consumer to buy more than they can afford? How is that good for business? Please don't be an internet nikka breh, have some common sense.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Again, we're deviating from the point of this thread. But yes he does, that's why so many bodies were dropping in Laredo, you want to ship via Laredo, you need to pay taxes to Sinaloa, same like if you want to ship via Tijuana, you need to pay taxes to the Tijuana cartel. Someone stepping in to fill his shoes is easier said than done, just ask the Z's. And why would any real business man underworld or not force their consumer to buy more than they can afford? How is that good for business? Please don't be an internet nikka breh, have some common sense.

Here's my point of view: if Chapo or the Sinaloa cartel were to drop dead today, would the drug trade stop? No. Someone else would just step in. That's why I say he doesn't control it. Because nobody does. The drug trade is an institution. The players, big or small, come and go. but they don't control shyt. They just play their part.

But anyway, it seems at this point we're operating with different meanings of the word "control". It's best if we just agree to disagree.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Here's my point of view: if Chapo or the Sinaloa cartel were to drop dead today, would the drug trade stop? No. Someone else would just step in. That's why I say he doesn't control it. Because nobody does. The drug trade is an institution. The players, big or small, come and go. but they don't control shyt. They just play their part.

But anyway, it seems at this point we're operating with different meanings of the word "control". It's best if we just agree to disagree.

Hmmm I dont know about that, because all the other cartels have since flopped since their 'bosses' have been imprisoned or killed. TJ cartel isn't what it used to be, Juarez gone, even Zeta is flopping and now runs more like a renegade cell than anything. Chapo just got imprisoned, 3 years from now Sinola will have the same fate and another cartel with strong leadership will take over.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Hmmm I dont know about that, because all the other cartels have since flopped since their 'bosses' have been imprisoned or killed. TJ cartel isn't what it used to be, Juarez gone, even Zeta is flopping and now runs more like a renegade cell than anything. Chapo just got imprisoned, 3 years from now Sinola will have the same fate and another cartel with strong leadership will take over.

I guess, but the Mexicans aren't the only players. The Columbians are back on their feet since the fiasco that happened 20 years ago, and are probably licking their chops at the thought of supplying the US directly again. And there are Italian groups in Canada like the former Rizzutos, the Ndrangheta etc. who have been moving tons of product for decades and wouldn' mind expanding their market. And there's always the possibility of local players like big street gangs or biker clubs establishing their own connections and bringing drugs in - like Frank Matthews did.

With something as lucrative as drugs, there's always gonna be someone willing to "serve the community".

 

[blackzeus]

Here's my point of view: if Chapo or the Sinaloa cartel were to drop dead today, would the drug trade stop? No. Someone else would just step in. That's why I say he doesn't control it. Because nobody does. The drug trade is an institution. The players, big or small, come and go. but they don't control shyt. They just play their part.

But anyway, it seems at this point we're operating with different meanings of the word "control". It's best if we just agree to disagree.

The US is an instituion. If Obama dropped dead today it would still go on. Does it mean he doesn't control it right now? Cmon breh, you're better than this. Let's not escape reality based on asinine definitions of what everybody knows to be true.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Does it mean he doesn't control it right now?

Uh... yes?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Rogers Park!!

Not EAST Rogers Park though. East is alot more

 

[BantuKnotz99]

Lil jojo cousin shot dead ...lil reesey at it again

Teen fatally shot in drive-by related to rapper killed in 2012 | WGN-TV

 

[Stack Money]

Basically breh. Nothing needs to be said.

Translation from bullshyt to English - I can't refute what he said.

And the dude you just co-signed dapped up a number of my posts in here.

Something similar to your avatar and your handle Sh*t is sad breh

Says the Tommy alias...

hypocrisy.

Dat irony

@StackMoney breh you lost, just give up my dude

-the LA mob family never really "ran shyt" in California, they just had business there. It was way too small(because there wasn't a big Italian population there) and its leadership way too incompetent. They were called the Mickey Mouse Mafia for this reason.

Back in the Dragna era they did, they woulda never gave him a spot on the Commission if he was small time. Thats why once the LA Crime Family fell off the Chicago Outfit started representin them on the Commission.

- using FBI/DOJ terminology and classifications, powerful and organized street gangs would fall under the "criminal enterprise" banner and not under "organized crime"

I guess so technically.

- don't get too caught up in the hitman and soldier semantic debates. That's videogame logic. The mob for the most part uses its own people to do "work", and only very rarely outsource. If a guy is "on the record" with a mob family and is known to be "capable" he may be ordered to do a hit. But mob guys never get paid for a hit. They're not "contract killers". They do it because it's expected of them. And they may advance in the organization or be given more opportunities to make money, but they never get paid a fee for a hit. That's movie shyt.

Yeah "contract" wasn't the right word cause their salary don't increase when they pull off a hit, but thats basically what I was sayin the mob mostly has its own guys kill for them.

- Richard Kuklinski was a bullshyt artist, a media invention. He only killed a few guys and they were low level street guys(i.e: porn shop operators, thieves). He killed them to take over their businesses, not "on contract". His only association with the mob was he once bought a gun from a fringe player in Roy DeMeo's crew.

Richard Kuklinski was a serial killer, its a known fact he killed more than a "few" guys and several mob snitches confirmed he worked in DeMeo's crew.

-neither the mob nor the cartels ever "controlled" the drug trade. That's also media bullshyt. What they did/do is supply. But the relationship between wholesaler and retailer is symbiotic. Neither controls the other. One can't make money without the other.

I feel you on this.

- the GDs don't rival the 60s mob in power. No criminal organization will ever have the power the mob once had in America(as opposed to 2nd or 3rd worlds, where it's much easier). It's not that the Italians were inherently superior criminals, they just were lucky enough to benefit from a unique set of circumstances(mass immigration, Prohibition and the Great Depression, the rise of the Labor Unions, J Edgar Hoover being a massive tool, the illegality of gambling, the lottery not existing, credit was hard to get etc.) that will never again be replicated.

It's so easy to spot a real nikka

Even easier to spot a fake nikka.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Richard Kuklinski was a serial killer, its a known fact he killed more than a "few" guys and several mob snitches confirmed he worked in DeMeo's crew.

No it's not a known fact. He is the only source for the majority of his supposed killings. Who are the several mob snitches?

I would tell the real "Iceman" story but we've already gone off-topic too much. And while I'm not claiming mob status, my information on this doesn't come from the media.

 

[blackzeus]

No it's not a known fact. He is the only source for the majority of his supposed killings. Who are the several mob snitches?

I would tell the real "Iceman" story but we've already gone off-topic too much. And while I'm not claiming mob status, my information on this doesn't come from the media.

Don't respond to that guy breh, he's here trying to derail the thread, not to mention he's a f*ckin' idiot.

 

[Stack Money]

No it's not a known fact. He is the only source for the majority of his supposed killings. Who are the several mob snitches?

I would tell the real "Iceman" story but we've already gone off-topic too much. And while I'm not claiming mob status, my information on this doesn't come from the media.

The police convicted him of 5 murders which makes him a serial killer, and as far as snitches Greg Bucceroni for starters.

Don't respond to that guy breh, he's here trying to derail the thread, not to mention he's a f*ckin' idiot.

I ain't been tryna derail the thread I just refuted your posts, but that self absorbed paranoid argument further proves you and Tommy the same person. "Both" of you quit after I pointed out the similarities.

 

[Mr. Pink]

The police convicted him of 5 murders which makes him a serial killer, and as far as snitches Greg Bucceroni for starters.

"for starters"? That's disingenuous and you know it. Anyone else other than that mook?
Read this, this guy does a good job of summing it up:The Iceman Lieth | Swallowing The Camel
Oh and by the way, Bucceroni posted there.

Now here's the real story behind the Iceman legend:

Spoiler

Like I said, Kuklinski was a street guy. A killer, but not associated with the mob, and certainly not doing hits for them. He partnered up with other street guys and then killed them and tookover their businesses. That's how he made a living. Anyway, after he got arrested and prosecuted in the 80s he landed in the Trenton prison, NJ. There were a lot of mobsters in Trenton, and one of them was Robert "Bobby Cabert" Bisacia. Cabert was the inspiration behind Joe Pesci's characters in Goodfellas and Casino. Pesci knew Cabert and coppied his mannerisms with permission. He was a very dangerous guy. Anyway, Kuklinski became Cabert's errand boy after a few years.

Now Cabert got life for a murder based on Sammy Gravano's testimony. So the "Iceman" legend was nothing more than Cabert's attempt for freedom. I'll explain how: People started taking an interest in Kuklinski's nickname(which was given to him by a coronor without knowing who he was, he never used that name on the street) and Cabert encouraged to portray himself as a mob hitter. And one of the murders he was supposed to take claim for is a corrupt cop Peter Calabro. Kuklinski was supposed to say that he killed Calabro on the orders of Sammy Gravano. Why? The plan was to get Gravano implicated in a murder he didn't tell the Feds about. If he didn't tell te Feds about it that means it's out of his deal for immunity, which means he can get convicted for it. If Gravano gets convicted that opens the door for anyone who was put in jail on his testimony to appeal and get a retrial. Including... Bobby Cabert!

Anyway, the plot failed, but Kuklinski, who got life no parole starts liking the attention and his reputation as a big bad hitman and starts exaggerating more and more. He starts taking credit for infamous mob murders like Lilo Galante, Jimmy Hoffa(lol), Paul Castellano and Roy DeMeo. If he lived a few more years he would have took credit for JFK, Abe Lincoln and Julius Caesar, lol.

And that's it. As the saying goes, the truth is stranger than fiction. What I told you comes straight from "the horse's mouth". You can accept it or not, it makes no difference to me. But I won't argue the point any longer, and this is not the place for mafia debates.