Catholics of The Coli (if you exist) Explain Praying To The Virgin Mary?

Kitsune

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Modern Christianity has it's origins in khemet.

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That is Osiris, Horus, and Ra
Jesus, Mary, and the father(Joseph) = Horus, Isis, Osirus

Mary getting pregnant by a spirit is like Isis getting pregnant by using magic

mary_jesus.jpg


vs

isis-horus-5078.jpg


Jesus "supposedly" was born on dec.25. It is said horus was also born on dec 25th

Jesus had his 3 wisemen, Horus had his, which are the 3 stars in Orion's belt.

Jesus and Horus are both associated with the sun

Akhenaten's Hymn is in psalms 104

It goes on.

But you have to go a little further back because Egypt wasnt the source of this paganistic "mother-child" cult.

Ancient Sumeria (Babylon) was the fountainhead; from their it permeated across a set of various cultures; and yes with Egypt being one of them. Isis and Horus werent their original names. Before they were known as Horus and Isis, they were known as Ishtar and Tammuz.
If you want me to go on then in Greece they were identified as Aphrodite and Eros. The Romans then carried the flag and replaced their names as Venus and Cupid. Then in Rome it intermingled with Christianity bringing forth Catholicism so this satanic cult still carries on till this day. Easter and Christmas are actually holidays in honor these gods. Easter being a derivative from the name Ishtar/Ashortah and Christmas being the celebration for her son Tammuz.
 

Bboystyle

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If they are not Christian then what they are stating is a fact to them. Not really being judgmental if they are stating what there religion teaches them.

No one can deem u as going to hell except for God. There are other ways of approaching someone on that subject instead of flat out telling them "u die ur going to hell unless u become a Christian". And to tell you the truth,so many Christians are always in others business and talking smack about one another behind their backs. I've been to at least 3 different churches in 3 different cities where there was always tension and talk within the community. The hypocrisy of them is just :snoop:
 

MMS

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus = the Word so lets read that over with Jesus

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.

Also the Holy Trinity
Genesis 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

So we have God the father, the son"he was there in the beginning" and the spirit, all in Genesis 1.

Nah :heh:
 

Bud Bundy

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No one can deem u as going to hell except for God. There are other ways of approaching someone on that subject instead of flat out telling them "u die ur going to hell unless u become a Christian". And to tell you the truth,so many Christians are always in others business and talking smack about one another behind their backs. I've been to at least 3 different churches in 3 different cities where there was always tension and talk within the community. The hypocrisy of them is just :snoop:

I am sure there are others way to convert people but The New testament says that unless you believe in Jesus then your going hell or not heaven. :to:

It is what is but other religions are the same way.
 

rapbeats

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Well i know as a Christian, it's BS. Love having this argument with my uncles and aunts who are life time Catholics. OUtside of "that's how It's been done" they really can't back it scripturally, in fact it flies in the face of most of the bible.

The thing is this...
Catholics are not to pray TO Mary or the saints (THEM), but to ask THEM to pray to God on their behalf...which there is nothing technically wrong with. The issue comes in where people, not really knowing what they are doing or saying or in some cases believing take dogma (asking for prayers) and transform it into a new practice (asking THEM for salvation.)

Ideally and in actuality you don't have to pray to the saints and mary, it does no extra good, or harm, unless you transform it into worship, then it's harm.

Pray to JC, can't go wrong there.

"No way to the father but through the son"
~ JC
you're partially right here.

the truth is, you should never pray to a dead person.

the human to ever defeat death is jesus. not mary as great as she was for being chosen, and non of the saints for being chosen and following God's lead. all those, mary and the saints are dead and gone. so they cant do a thing with your prayers.

you go ahead and waste your breath praying to someone that cant do anything for you spiritually. and watch your prayers not get answered.


if you're a CHRIST----ian. you see that. CHRIST--ian. you pray directly to GOd himself in the name of his son. which is why prayers may start with jesus' name or end with them.

example, Lord keep me, my family, friends,associates, and enemies out of harms way today....in JESUS name.. AMEN

now you can also pray to Jesus as well. Jesus is the son of GOd but is also a part of GOD (3 in one, trinity). so praying to JESUS is also praying to GOD. as stated in one of those above scripts. you go THRU Jesus to get to GOD. not thru mary, not thru "the saints" not thru the pope, priests, etc.

catholic confessions. its okay to have an accountability partner. and to use your priest as said partner. meaning you can confess to him. but what you cant do is have him pray on your behalf.

sure if you are young in the faith and you dont know any better, it is what it is. God will probably answer your prayers anyway. but once you mature and read the bible. you realize you no longer have to ask your priest to take your "asking of forgiveness" to God. you can do that by yourself. this changed in the new testament once Jesus came. prior to that going THRU the priest was the only route to GOD.
 

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I love watching the followers of religions call the other religions on their bullshyt. It's like watching a child trying to solve an equation.
 

rapbeats

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I know for 1 Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus is God, just the son. There are others who told me this too but I'm not that learned when it comes to Christianity so I can't tell you which denominations believe what.

You obviously don't know a lot about it either. Don't feel bad though, a lot of Christians don't know a lot about it either. :yeshrug:

therefore JW's are not christians.
 

Johnny Kilroy

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Isaiah 43:10-11

You are my witnesses, said the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

Now who said this? The Father, or the son?

"Before me there was no God", so it can't be the son, seeing as how fathers come before sons.

"Neither shall there be after me", so it can't be the father, seeing as how sons come after fathers.


A little help? :ld:
 

Brown_Pride

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you're partially right here.

the truth is, you should never pray to a dead person.

the human to ever defeat death is jesus. not mary as great as she was for being chosen, and non of the saints for being chosen and following God's lead. all those, mary and the saints are dead and gone. so they cant do a thing with your prayers.

you go ahead and waste your breath praying to someone that cant do anything for you spiritually. and watch your prayers not get answered.


if you're a CHRIST----ian. you see that. CHRIST--ian. you pray directly to GOd himself in the name of his son. which is why prayers may start with jesus' name or end with them.

example, Lord keep me, my family, friends,associates, and enemies out of harms way today....in JESUS name.. AMEN

now you can also pray to Jesus as well. Jesus is the son of GOd but is also a part of GOD (3 in one, trinity). so praying to JESUS is also praying to GOD. as stated in one of those above scripts. you go THRU Jesus to get to GOD. not thru mary, not thru "the saints" not thru the pope, priests, etc.

catholic confessions. its okay to have an accountability partner. and to use your priest as said partner. meaning you can confess to him. but what you cant do is have him pray on your behalf.

sure if you are young in the faith and you dont know any better, it is what it is. God will probably answer your prayers anyway. but once you mature and read the bible. you realize you no longer have to ask your priest to take your "asking of forgiveness" to God. you can do that by yourself. this changed in the new testament once Jesus came. prior to that going THRU the priest was the only route to GOD.

Enoch and Elijah would like to have a side bar with you...

I hear and agree with what you said though. Where i said "technically there is nothing wrong...." I was incorrect, i intended to point out that you can ask people to pray for you, but praying to a dead person is no bueno and arguably a bad thing.
 

rapbeats

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This is literally the stupidest graph ever.

The Father = God

The Son = God

The Holy Spirit = God

Therefore, simple logic suggests that the Father = The Son = The Holy Spirit.

And yet the chart says it is not so. :heh:

just because you dont get it. doesnt mean its stupid. do you care to learn or do you just want to clown it? your choice



The Trinity
FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT
Called God Phil. 1:2
John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9
Acts 5:3-4

Creator Isaiah 64:8
John 1:3; Col. 1:15-17
Job 33:4, 26:13

Resurrects 1 Thess. 1:10
John 2:19, 10:17
Rom. 8:11

Indwells 2 Cor. 6:16
Col. 1:27
John 14:17

Everywhere 1 Kings 8:27
Matt. 28:20
Psalm 139:7-10

All knowing 1 John 3:20
John 16:30; 21:17
1 Cor. 2:10-11

Sanctifies 1 Thess. 5:23
Heb. 2:11
1 Pet. 1:2

Life giver Gen. 2:7: John 5:21
John 1:3; 5:21
2 Cor. 3:6,8

Fellowship 1 John 1:3
1 Cor. 1:9
2 Cor. 13:14; Phil. 2:1

Eternal Psalm 90:2
Micah 5:1-2
Rom. 8:11; Heb. 9:14

A Will Luke 22:42
Luke 22:42
1 Cor. 12:11

Speaks Matt. 3:17; Luke 9:25
Luke 5:20; 7:48
Acts 8:29; 11:12; 13:2

Love John 3:16
Eph. 5:25
Rom. 15:30

Searches
the heart Jer. 17:10
Rev. 2:23
1 Cor. 2:10

We belong to John 17:9
John 17:6
. . .
Savior
1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 4:10
2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:4; 3:6
. . .
We serve Matt. 4:10
Col. 3:24
. . .
Believe in John 14:1
John 14:1
. . .
Gives joy . . . John 15:11
John 14:7

Judges John 8:50
John 5:22,30
. . .
SEE^^^ the scriptures to prove the points.

read below.

The Trinity
by Matt Slick

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. (See also, "Another Look at the Trinity")

Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.

There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13).

A further point of clarification is that God is not one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit as a force (Jehovah's Witnesses). Neither is He one person who took three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology). Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism).

The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.

The chart below should help you to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture. The list is not exhaustive, only illustrative.

The first step is to establish the biblical doctrine that there is only one God. Then, you find that each of the persons is called God, each creates, each was involved in Jesus' resurrection, each indwells, etc. Therefore, God is one, but the one God is in three simultaneous persons. Please note that the idea of a composite unity is not a foreign concept to the Bible; after all, man and wife are said to be one flesh. The idea of a composite unity of persons is spoken of by God in Genesis (Gen. 2:24).

There is only one God

The first step is to establish how many Gods exist: one! Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God," (Isaiah 45:5).
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me," (Isaiah 44:6).
 

rapbeats

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MORE>>>>>>

Can We Pray to Jesus?
by Dr. Mark Bird April 18, 2012
Semi-technical
author-mark-bird church-history god jesus-christ prayer trinity

Abstract

Students have asked me in one way or another: “Is it wrong to pray to Jesus?” These students, unlike Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example, believe that Jesus is God. So the question, put more precisely, is “Has God the Father reserved prayer to be directed only to Himself, despite Christ’s claims of equality?” This article will present evidence from Scripture, primarily, and tradition, secondarily, that it is appropriate and even important to address Jesus in prayer.

Introduction

Once while doing a weekend seminar on the cults, I took a few students on a field trip to a Kingdom Hall. That Sunday morning, a Jehovah’s Witness leader gave the Bible lesson on prayer. One of his major points was that “Jehovah has not delegated prayer to the angels or to Jesus. Jehovah has reserved prayer only for himself.” After the service, I asked the leader to explain why we should only pray to the Father, and not to Jesus. He said that it was because “Jesus is not Almighty God, and only God is to be worshipped.” Of course, I reject that reason for not praying to Jesus, as would all evangelicals, since Jesus is God.
It is not just Jehovah’s Witnesses that argue for only praying to the Father. I have also heard a few evangelical Christians argue that we should not pray to Jesus.1 One argument made for this position is that the Lord’s Prayer is addressed to the Father and not to the Son. However, it is precisely because Jesus is a divine Person that we can (and should) pray to Him.
One of the students I taught at that weekend seminar shared with me that for years she had taught her children only to pray to the Father, since that is what she was taught by an influential evangelical teacher. But this family practice gradually lapsed into prayers to both the Father and the Son since praying to both seemed so natural for the kids—and the parents. My student wanted to know what I thought about the issue. Other students have asked in one way or another: “Is it wrong to pray to Jesus?” This article will respond to that question.

The Lord’s Prayer

Does the fact that this model prayer addresses the Father and not the Son mean that we are never to address the Son (or the Spirit) in prayer? No. By giving us a model prayer, Jesus did not limit our prayers to a certain structure or verbiage. Otherwise, we would need to eliminate using the words “in Jesus’ name,” since they do not appear in the Lord’s Prayer. We would also need to eliminate thanksgiving from our prayers, since that does not show up in the Lord’s Prayer. But obviously, we should give thanks to God in our prayers (1 Thessalonians 5:17–18). Christ's words, “Our Father which art in Heaven” don't keep us from praying to Jesus any more than his words “Give us our daily bread” keep us from praying for something to drink. Furthermore, it would have been a bit odd for Jesus to pray to Himself instead of the Father. We learn a great deal from this prayer, but it does not teach us everything we should know about talking to God.

It is appropriate to pray to the Father directly; the Lord’s Prayer clearly shows that. However, just because we are permitted to pray, and even commanded to pray to the Father, doesn’t mean that we are not permitted to pray to the Son.

New Testament Christians everywhere praying to Jesus

According to the apostle Paul, New Testament Christians were everywhere praying to Jesus. “Paul. . . to the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on3 the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours (1 Corinthians 1:1–2).”4 It appears that Paul includes himself among those who called upon the name of Jesus. These prayers directed to Jesus were universal. And the present tense of “call” suggests that the prayers were on-going.5

Other examples of prayers to Jesus

There are other examples of appropriate prayers to Jesus in the New Testament.

10 Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit” (Acts 7:59). At Paul’s conversion, he prayed to Jesus: “Lord, what wilt thou have me do?” (Acts 9:6). Ananias conversed with Jesus when Jesus spoke to him in a vision (Acts 9:10–14). And the very last prayer in the New Testament is addressed to Jesus by the Apostle John: “Even so come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20). If it were wrong to petition Christ, John the inspired writer may have said, “Father, may the Son come.” But instead he gave us these words to also cry out to Jesus: “Even so, come!”

The last verse referred to may allude to the phrase, “Maranatha” (found in 1 Corinthians 16:22), which is usually translated as the petition, “Come, O Lord.” “Maranatha” is an Aramaic expression that originated before Christians had filtered throughout the Gentile community. It seems that very early on, the Christians were crying out to Jesus, “Come, O Lord!”11 This was a prayer of petition.

Praying to the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit
There is a sense in which all of our prayers, even ones we pray to the Spirit or the Son, are ultimately directed to the Father, who is the Head of the Trinity (John 14:26; 1 Corinthians 11:3). It is through Christ that we have access to the Father. And we pray in the Spirit to the Father. “For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father” (Ephesians 2:18). The Spirit’s role is important. Romans 8:26 says that the Spirit helps us in our weakness: “For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning which cannot be uttered.” So we are to pray in the Spirit and through Jesus (on the basis of what He has done for us, and in His authority). However, to actually pray to the Spirit or to the Son while praying in the Spirit does not delegitimize our prayer. When we pray to the Spirit we are still praying to God. And when we pray to Jesus in His authority, we are still praying to God, and in a sense to the Father Himself.

Because prayers directed to the Father are so common in the New Testament, it is certainly appropriate to address the Father on a regular basis (we should pray to him often). But I am confident that God is not counting our prayers to each member of the Trinity to make sure we have prayed to each one in proper proportion. The Trinity is not “jealous” of one another. Of course, if we are leaving one member of the Trinity out completely, then there may be a problem with our view of that member of the Trinity. Communicating to each Person in the Godhead is important for having fellowship with our tri-personal God.

The Sinner’s Prayer: Praying to Jesus to enter into a relationship with Him
If you have ever prayed with someone to receive Christ, you may have quoted John 1:12 (“But as many as received him [Jesus], to them gave he the right to become the Sons of God”). You may have encouraged the sinner to acknowledge Jesus as Lord and ask Him for forgiveness of sins. This is very important for the sinner to do. If you believed it were inappropriate to pray to Jesus, you would not ask the sinner to pray to Jesus.16 But

Concluding Remarks

believing it is proper to pray to Christ, you encourage the sinner to say a prayer to Him. This prayer to Jesus will be the beginning of a lifetime of fellowship between this new Christian and his Savior, whom he can commune with every day.

Because Jesus is so interested in having a personal relationship with each of us, we as Christians would make a serious mistake to feel as though we shouldn’t address the Son (and even the Spirit) in prayer. A personal relationship with Jesus naturally involves communing with Him, expressing commitment to Him, expressing one’s dependence on Him, asking for His help, etc. But it is important to cultivate a healthy relationship with Jesus, as well as with the Father. “Truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ” (I John 1:3b). All the members of the Trinity share the same desires, one of which is to have a personal relationship with us. All share the same divinity and thus are worthy of worship, and each ought to be verbally praised. Each deserves expressions of adoration and submission.
There is no prohibition in the Scriptures against praying to Jesus. Taking requests to Jesus himself is modeled in Scripture, and addressing Jesus in praise and adoration is commanded. Therefore our prayers need not be restricted to God the Father. As God, Jesus is worthy of praise and is able to answer prayer. All persons of the Trinity ought to be included without hesitation in our prayers to God.
 

rapbeats

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Enoch and Elijah would like to have a side bar with you...

I hear and agree with what you said though. Where i said "technically there is nothing wrong...." I was incorrect, i intended to point out that you can ask people to pray for you, but praying to a dead person is no bueno and arguably a bad thing.

i already knew you were going to bring up the E brothas. lol. they did not come back from the grave. they skipped the grave. there's a difference.

lets look at it like this.

LIFE (on earth) ____grave(in death)_____afterlife(in heaven)

Enoch/Elijah

LIFE____afterlife(in heaven)

JESUS

LIFE (on earth)____grave(in death)_____ROSE from the grave____afterlife(Then walked on on EARTH again as a Spirit that people recognized).

i dont know of any scripts talking about people saw Enoch or elijah, do you?

1 had to CONQUER death. the other two SKIPPED IT altogether. and went home.
 

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus = the Word so lets read that over with Jesus

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.

Also the Holy Trinity
Genesis 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

So we have God the father, the son"he was there in the beginning" and the spirit, all in Genesis 1.

Genesis is from the old testiment which is hebrew, that passage does not refer to JC. sorry
 
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