BREAKING: US tells Ukraine we’re broke, HYON

Da King

Veteran
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
62,010
Reputation
1,126
Daps
209,213

Russia has lost 87% of troops it had prior to start of Ukraine war, according to US intelligence assessment​

By Katie Bo Lillis, CNN
4 minute read
Updated 1:00 PM EST, Wed December 13, 2023

Russian tanks take part in a military drills at Molkino training ground in the Krasnodar region, Russia, Tuesday, Dec. 14, 2021. Russia on Tuesday carried out military exercises in the Rostov region near its border with Ukraine. Tensions between the two countries rose in recent weeks amid reports of a Russian troop buildup near the border that stoked fears of a possible invasion -- allegations Moscow denied and in turn blamed Ukraine for its own military buildup in the east of the country. (AP Photo)

File photo showing Russian tanks taking part in a military drills at Molkino training ground in the Krasnodar region, Russia, Tuesday, Dec. 14, 2021.
AP

CNN —

Russia has lost a staggering 87 percent of the total number of active-duty ground troops it had prior to launching its invasion of Ukraine and two-thirds of its pre-invasion tanks, a source familiar with a declassified US intelligence assessment provided to Congress told CNN.

Still, despite heavy losses of men and equipment, Russian President Vladimir Putin is determined to push forward as the war approaches its two-year anniversary early next year and US officials are warning that Ukraine remains deeply vulnerable. A highly anticipated Ukrainian counteroffensive stagnated through the fall, and US officials believe that Kyiv is unlikely to make any major gains over the coming months.

The assessment, sent to Capitol Hill on Monday, comes as some Republicans have balked at the US providing additional funding for Ukraine and the Biden administration has launched a full-court press to try to get supplemental funding through Congress.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is in Washington on Tuesday, meeting with US lawmakers and President Joe Biden in desperate bid to secure the military and economic aid he says is vital to Ukraine’s ability to maintain the fight against Russia.

Russia has been able to keep its war effort going despite the heavy losses by relaxing recruitment standards and dipping into Soviet-era stockpiles of older equipment. Still, the assessment found that the war has “sharply set back 15 years of Russian effort to modernize its ground force.”

Of the 360,000 troops that made up Russia’s pre-invasion ground force, including contract and conscript personnel, Russia has lost 315,000 on the battlefield, according to the assessment. 2,200 of 3,500 tanks have been lost, according to the assessment. 4,400 of 13,600 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers have also been destroyed, a 32 percent loss rate.

“As of late November, Russia lost over a quarter of its pre-invasion stockpiles of ground forces equipment,” the assessment reads. “This has reduced the complexity and scale of Russian offensive operations, which have failed to make major gains in Ukraine since early 2022.”

CNN has reached out to the Russian Embassy in Washington for comment.

But it is the political environment in Washington that presents perhaps the greatest peril for Ukraine. Some Republicans are stiffly rejecting any additional funding and Senate Republicans are insisting on making it part of a broader spending package to include money for Israel, Taiwan and the US southern border. The Biden administration is warning that the US will soon be out of money for Ukraine.


“The idea that Ukraine was going to throw Russia back to the 1991 borders was preposterous,” Sen. J.D. Vance, a Republican from Ohio, said on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday. “So what we’re saying to the president and really to the entire world is, you need to articulate what the ambition is. What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?”

Other newly declassified intelligence previously reported by CNN suggests that “Russia seems to believe that a military deadlock through the winter will drain Western support for Ukraine and ultimately give Russia the advantage despite Russian losses and persistent shortages of trained personnel, munitions, and equipment,” according to a National Security Council spokesman.

“Since launching its offensive in October, we assess that the Russian military has suffered more than 13,000 casualties along the Avdiivka-Novopavlivka axis and over 220 combat vehicle losses-the equivalent of 6 maneuver battalions in equipment alone,” NSC spokesperson Adrienne Watson told CNN.

Before the invasion, Russia had a total standing military of approximately 900,000 active-duty troops, including ground troops, airborne troops, special operations and other uniformed personnel, according to the CIA. Since the start of the invasion, Russia has announced plans to increase the size of the armed forces to 1.5 million. The Russian Ministry of Defense has announced several rounds of conscription, including its regular fall conscription cycle on October 1.

Russia has also leaned heavily on convicts marshaled to the fight by the Wagner Group and has increased the age limit for certain categories of citizens to remain in the reserve of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

This story has been updated with additional details.

The same US intelligence looking for those WMD’s in Iraq still? :mjlol:
 

Mister Terrific

It’s in the name
Bushed
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
5,265
Reputation
1,458
Daps
18,913
Reppin
Michigan
Thats not the point. The point was US intelligence knowing number of russia casualties. Nobody denies russia has dead men in Ukraine we just dismissing the figures from US thats all. Now move along....:comeon:
Shut your goofy corny ass up. :mjlol: Remember when Biden came on tv and told you retards when Russia was going to invade? Down to what time, and specifically how many orcs they were invading with? How do you think the US and Britain has that information dumbass? You think the US doesn’t know down to the fireteam how many people Russia is attacking with? You think US satellites aren’t tracking Russian troop maneuvers at all time.

Not only that but we can corroborate this data with the massive piles of Russian dead. Twitter users literally spend all day counting Russian troop and machine losses in every video.

Hell the video I just posted has a Russian saying he came with 700 and left with 14. The fukk more proof so you need :skip:



Take your ass back to your mandem Boris the bullet dodger, this convo is beyond you :umad:
 

Artfull Dodger

All Star
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
2,089
Reputation
1,252
Daps
7,013
Shut your goofy corny ass up. :mjlol: Remember when Biden came on tv and told you retards when Russia was going to invade? Down to what time, and specifically how many orcs they were invading with? How do you think the US and Britain has that information dumbass? You think the US doesn’t know down to the fireteam how many people Russia is attacking with? You think US satellites aren’t tracking Russian troop maneuvers at all time.

Not only that but we can corroborate this data with the massive piles of Russian dead. Twitter users literally spend all day counting Russian troop and machine losses in every video.

Hell the video I just posted has a Russian saying he came with 700 and left with 14. The fukk more proof so you need :skip:



Take your ass back to your mandem Boris the bullet dodger, this convo is beyond you :umad:
:stopitslime:
1FGAuvU.png
 

itsyoung!!

Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
37,904
Reputation
6,587
Daps
108,722
Reppin
Bay Area

Russia has lost 87% of troops it had prior to start of Ukraine war, according to US intelligence assessment​

By Katie Bo Lillis, CNN
4 minute read
Updated 1:00 PM EST, Wed December 13, 2023

Russian tanks take part in a military drills at Molkino training ground in the Krasnodar region, Russia, Tuesday, Dec. 14, 2021. Russia on Tuesday carried out military exercises in the Rostov region near its border with Ukraine. Tensions between the two countries rose in recent weeks amid reports of a Russian troop buildup near the border that stoked fears of a possible invasion -- allegations Moscow denied and in turn blamed Ukraine for its own military buildup in the east of the country. (AP Photo)

File photo showing Russian tanks taking part in a military drills at Molkino training ground in the Krasnodar region, Russia, Tuesday, Dec. 14, 2021.
AP

CNN —

Russia has lost a staggering 87 percent of the total number of active-duty ground troops it had prior to launching its invasion of Ukraine and two-thirds of its pre-invasion tanks, a source familiar with a declassified US intelligence assessment provided to Congress told CNN.

Still, despite heavy losses of men and equipment, Russian President Vladimir Putin is determined to push forward as the war approaches its two-year anniversary early next year and US officials are warning that Ukraine remains deeply vulnerable. A highly anticipated Ukrainian counteroffensive stagnated through the fall, and US officials believe that Kyiv is unlikely to make any major gains over the coming months.

The assessment, sent to Capitol Hill on Monday, comes as some Republicans have balked at the US providing additional funding for Ukraine and the Biden administration has launched a full-court press to try to get supplemental funding through Congress.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is in Washington on Tuesday, meeting with US lawmakers and President Joe Biden in desperate bid to secure the military and economic aid he says is vital to Ukraine’s ability to maintain the fight against Russia.

Russia has been able to keep its war effort going despite the heavy losses by relaxing recruitment standards and dipping into Soviet-era stockpiles of older equipment. Still, the assessment found that the war has “sharply set back 15 years of Russian effort to modernize its ground force.”

Of the 360,000 troops that made up Russia’s pre-invasion ground force, including contract and conscript personnel, Russia has lost 315,000 on the battlefield, according to the assessment. 2,200 of 3,500 tanks have been lost, according to the assessment. 4,400 of 13,600 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers have also been destroyed, a 32 percent loss rate.

“As of late November, Russia lost over a quarter of its pre-invasion stockpiles of ground forces equipment,” the assessment reads. “This has reduced the complexity and scale of Russian offensive operations, which have failed to make major gains in Ukraine since early 2022.”

CNN has reached out to the Russian Embassy in Washington for comment.

But it is the political environment in Washington that presents perhaps the greatest peril for Ukraine. Some Republicans are stiffly rejecting any additional funding and Senate Republicans are insisting on making it part of a broader spending package to include money for Israel, Taiwan and the US southern border. The Biden administration is warning that the US will soon be out of money for Ukraine.


“The idea that Ukraine was going to throw Russia back to the 1991 borders was preposterous,” Sen. J.D. Vance, a Republican from Ohio, said on CNN’s State of the Union on Sunday. “So what we’re saying to the president and really to the entire world is, you need to articulate what the ambition is. What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?”

Other newly declassified intelligence previously reported by CNN suggests that “Russia seems to believe that a military deadlock through the winter will drain Western support for Ukraine and ultimately give Russia the advantage despite Russian losses and persistent shortages of trained personnel, munitions, and equipment,” according to a National Security Council spokesman.

“Since launching its offensive in October, we assess that the Russian military has suffered more than 13,000 casualties along the Avdiivka-Novopavlivka axis and over 220 combat vehicle losses-the equivalent of 6 maneuver battalions in equipment alone,” NSC spokesperson Adrienne Watson told CNN.

Before the invasion, Russia had a total standing military of approximately 900,000 active-duty troops, including ground troops, airborne troops, special operations and other uniformed personnel, according to the CIA. Since the start of the invasion, Russia has announced plans to increase the size of the armed forces to 1.5 million. The Russian Ministry of Defense has announced several rounds of conscription, including its regular fall conscription cycle on October 1.

Russia has also leaned heavily on convicts marshaled to the fight by the Wagner Group and has increased the age limit for certain categories of citizens to remain in the reserve of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

This story has been updated with additional details.
Knowing, for a fact, how CNN skews the truth and at times just out right blatantly lies about the Israel vs Palestine situation, why would you trust them to be honest with this news ?
 

Chronic

All Star
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
1,795
Reputation
3,081
Daps
7,993
Knowing, for a fact, how CNN skews the truth and at times just out right blatantly lies about the Israel vs Palestine situation, why would you trust them to be honest with this news ?
That poster is a zionist, of course he believes everything CNN says about Israel vs Palestine as well.
 

Mister Terrific

It’s in the name
Bushed
Joined
May 24, 2022
Messages
5,265
Reputation
1,458
Daps
18,913
Reppin
Michigan

Sorry, I thought he's quoting Toussaint.
If it were up to me every Israeli right wing leader would be tried in The Hague, Palestinians would be given their own country and Israeli lobbying would be banned in the US.

Unlike you, I don’t simp authoritarian, hateful regimes Bing Bing.
 

Chronic

All Star
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
1,795
Reputation
3,081
Daps
7,993


If it were up to me every Israeli right wing leader would be tried in The Hague, Palestinians would be given their own country and Israeli lobbying would be banned in the US.

Unlike you, I don’t simp authoritarian, hateful regimes Bing Bing.
I actually enjoy criticizing Western hypocrisy and arrogance more than I love Russia and other regimes. Saying "fukk the Police" doesn't mean you support crimes.
 

bnew

Veteran
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
55,601
Reputation
8,224
Daps
157,071

Putin Ally Gives Ukraine Aid Package Lifeline

Dec 21, 2023 at 9:06 AM EST

Zelensky Hails 'Victory For Ukraine' In Europe As Putin Ally Stands Down

By Isabel van Brugen
Reporter
FOLLOW

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has signaled that a €50 billion ($55 billion) package from the European Union for Ukraine could pass if his country is exempted from it.

Orbán, a longtime ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, suggested Thursday that the EU can circumvent his country's opposition to a four-year financial aid package for Kyiv by striking a separate deal among the 26 other bloc members, Bloomberg reported.

Days earlier, he vetoed the aid package at a two-day summit in Brussels. That move came shortly after the EU came to an agreement on starting membership talks with Ukraine.

"It's not a question that Hungary's will can be circumvented in many areas," Orbán told reporters in Budapest on Thursday.


Russian President Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orban

Russian President Vladimir Putin is seen with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán in Beijing, China, on October 17, 2023. Orbán has signaled that a €50 billion package from the European Union for Ukraine could pass if his country is exempted from it.GRIGORY SYSOYEV/POOL/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

The Hungarian leader has frequently criticized sending Ukraine aid to assist the country in its fight against Russia's full-scale invasion, which was launched in February 2022.


On January 27 Orbán suggested that Western nations have already "drifted" into becoming active participants in the war by providing weapons and money to assist Kyiv. Western countries should instead pursue "a ceasefire and peace talks," he said on Hungarian state radio.

Orbán has built strong economic and political ties with Russia but Hungary has condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine and has gone along with a number of EU sanctions packages.

Hungary has refused to supply Kyiv with weapons, despite appeals from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to Western leaders for military supplies.

Hungarian Defense Minister Kristóf Szalay-Bobrovniczky said in February that his country does not want to see an escalation of the war in Ukraine. He said Hungary wants to remain on the side of peace and that it provides humanitarian aid to Ukrainians fleeing the war.

"We live in a time of danger," he said at the time.

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar told reporters on December 15 that Ukraine will get its €50 billion aid package with or without Orbán's approval.

"It's possible for the 26 member states to provide the money on a bilateral basis," Varadkar said. "A bit of time and space over the Christmas period might help."

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told Politico he was "fairly confident" EU leaders could come to a compromise early in 2024.

Orbán said in January that he believes EU countries that have promised or have provided Ukraine with weapons are "not only in danger, they have already been swept away."

"If you send weapons, if you finance the entire annual budget of one of the belligerents, if you promise more and more weapons, more and more modern weapons, then you can say whatever you want. No matter what you say, you are in the war," he said.
 

bnew

Veteran
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
55,601
Reputation
8,224
Daps
157,071

Putin Quietly Signals He Is Open to a Cease-Fire in Ukraine​

Despite its bravado in public, the Kremlin has indicated its interest in striking a deal to halt the war — so long as it could still declare victory.

By Anton Troianovski, Adam Entous and Julian E. Barnes

Dec. 23, 2023

President Vladimir V. Putin’s confidence seems to know no bounds.

Buoyed by Ukraine’s failed counteroffensive and flagging Western support, Mr. Putin says that Russia’s war goals have not changed. Addressing his generals on Tuesday, he boasted that Ukraine was so beleaguered that Russia’s invading troops were doing “what we want.”

“We won’t give up what’s ours,” he pledged, adding dismissively, “If they want to negotiate, let them negotiate.”

But in a recent push of back-channel diplomacy, Mr. Putin has been sending a different message: He is ready to make a deal.

Mr. Putin has been signaling through intermediaries since at least September that he is open to a cease-fire that freezes the fighting along the current lines, far short of his ambitions to dominate Ukraine, two former senior Russian officials close to the Kremlin and American and international officials who have received the message from Mr. Putin’s envoys say.

In fact, Mr. Putin also sent out feelers for a cease-fire deal a year earlier, in the fall of 2022, according to American officials. That quiet overture, not previously reported, came after Ukraine routed Russia’s army in the country’s northeast. Mr. Putin indicated that he was satisfied with Russia’s captured territory and ready for an armistice, they said.

Mr. Putin’s repeated interest in a cease-fire is an example of how opportunism and improvisation have defined his approach to the war behind closed doors. Dozens of interviews with Russians who have long known him and with international officials with insight into the Kremlin’s inner workings show a leader maneuvering to reduce risks and keep his options open in a war that has lasted longer than he expected. While deploying fiery public rhetoric, Mr. Putin privately telegraphs a desire to declare victory and move on.

“They say, ‘We are ready to have negotiations on a cease-fire,’” said one senior international official who met with top Russian officials this fall. “They want to stay where they are on the battlefield.”

There is no evidence that Ukraine’s leaders, who have pledged to retake all their territory, will accept such a deal. Some American officials say it could be a familiar Kremlin attempt at misdirection and does not reflect genuine willingness by Mr. Putin to compromise. The former Russian officials add that Mr. Putin could well change his mind again if Russian forces gain momentum.

In the past 16 months, Mr. Putin swallowed multiple humiliations — embarrassing retreats, a once-friendly warlord’s mutiny — before he arrived at his current state of relaxed confidence. All along, he waged a war that has killed or maimed hundreds of thousands while exhibiting contradictions that have become hallmarks of his rule.

While obsessed with Russia’s battlefield performance and what he sees as his historic mission to retake “original Russian lands,” he has been keen for most Russians to go on with normal life. While readying Russia for years of war, he is quietly trying to make it clear that he is ready to end it.

“He really is willing to stop at the current positions,” one of the former senior Russian officials told The New York Times, relaying a message he said the Kremlin was quietly sending. The former official added, “He’s not willing to retreat one meter.”

Mr. Putin, the current and former officials said, sees a confluence of factors creating an opportune moment for a deal: a battlefield that seems stuck in a stalemate, the fallout over Ukraine’s disappointing offensive, its flagging support in the West, and, since October, the distraction of the war in Gaza. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity, like others interviewed for this article, because of the sensitive nature of the back-channel overtures.

Responding to written questions after declining an interview request, Mr. Putin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, said in a voice message that “сonceptually, these theses you presented, they are incorrect.” Asked whether Russia was ready for a cease-fire at the current battle lines, he pointed to the president’s recent comments; Mr. Putin said this month that Russia’s war goals had not changed.

“Putin is, indeed, ready for talks, and he has said so,” Mr. Peskov said. “Russia continues to be ready, but exclusively for the achievement of its own goals.”

Ukraine has been rallying support for its own peace formula, which requires Moscow to surrender all captured Ukrainian territory and pay damages. President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday that he saw no sign that Russia wanted to negotiate.

“We just see brazen willingness to kill,” he said.



Early Talks​

Mr. Putin first explored peace talks in the early weeks of the war, but they fell apart after Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine came to light. Then, in the fall of 2022, after Russia’s embarrassing retreat from northeastern Ukraine, Mr. Putin again sent messages to Kyiv and the West that he would be open to a deal to freeze the fighting, American officials say.

Some of Ukraine’s supporters, like Gen. Mark A. Milley, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, encouraged Kyiv to negotiate because Ukraine had achieved as much on the battlefield as it could reasonably expect. But other top American officials believed it was too soon for talks. And Mr. Zelensky vowed to fight on until the entire country had been freed from Russia’s grasp.

By early 2023, gloom had settled over Moscow. On eastern Ukraine’s frozen plains, much of Russia’s prewar professional force had been decimated, leaving poorly trained draftees and convicts recruited from prisons to be gunned down in haphazardly planned infantry storms.

Mr. Putin said little in public about the war, stoking questions about his plans and motivations. In private, though, Mr. Putin embraced his role as commander in chief with an almost messianic determination during these months, the people close to the Kremlin contend. One said last February that the president held two videoconferences a day with military officials who briefed him on the minutiae of movements on the battlefield.

The war was “impossible to stop,” the person said, describing a conversation with a top Russian military official, because Mr. Putin “remains consumed by all this.”

“People want to tell him only good news, and there’s not much of that,” the person said. “So you have to lie.”

Sergei K. Shoigu, the Russian defense minister, made clear in a private meeting earlier this year that, despite his setbacks, Mr. Putin was determined to keep fighting. According to the senior international official, who was present, Mr. Shoigu gave statistics showing Russia’s advantage in tanks and warplanes and its plans to increase defense production. He boasted that Russia could mobilize as many as 25 million men, the official recalled.

“For Putin, it’s about Russia versus the U.S. and the West,” the official said after the meeting. “Putin can’t afford to back down.”
 

bnew

Veteran
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
55,601
Reputation
8,224
Daps
157,071

Turning Points​

As Ukraine launched its long-anticipated counteroffensive in June, Mr. Putin appeared tense, anxious for battlefield updates, people close to the Kremlin said. In public, Mr. Putin became a live commentator of the fight, eager to claim incremental successes.

“The enemy is trying to attack,” Mr. Putin said onstage at his marquee St. Petersburg International Economic Forum on June 16, describing a battle happening “right now.” “I think the armed forces of Ukraine have no chance.”

The same day, a delegation of African leaders arrived in Kyiv hoping to broker peace. At one point, Ukrainian officials rushed them into a shelter, warning of an attack. The next day, in St. Petersburg, President Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa asked Mr. Putin whether he had really bombed the Ukrainian capital while the African leaders were there.

“Yes, I did,” Mr. Putin responded, according to two people close to Mr. Ramaphosa, “but I made sure it was very far from where you were.”

He still tried to play the gracious host, taking the leaders on a dinner cruise. A member of the African delegation said Mr. Putin seemed interested in preparing a channel for future talks.

“It’s not that I want to negotiate,” the person said, describing Mr. Putin’s stance. “But I need to have ready, when the time will come, a very well-conceived, intelligent, capable channel of negotiations.”

A week later, the mercenary warlord Yevgeny V. Prigozhin launched his failed mutiny.

After Mr. Prigozhin accepted a deal to retreat to Belarus, Mr. Putin proceeded to spin what seemed to be one of the most humiliating moments of his 24 years in power into a victory. He declared in a lavish Kremlin ceremony that the failure of the rebellion demonstrated the strength of the Russian state. It offered a hint of what Mr. Putin might do if he fell short of his original goals in Ukraine: declare victory and move on.

The Kremlin’s analysis appeared to be that public support for the war was broad, but not deep — meaning that most would accept whatever Mr. Putin termed a victory. One of the government’s pollsters, Valery Fyodorov, said in a September newspaper interview that only 10 to 15 percent of Russians actively supported the war, and that “most Russians are not demanding the conquest of Kyiv or Odesa.”

By the end of the summer, events were shifting in Mr. Putin’s favor. Mr. Prigozhin’s death in a plane crash, widely seen as the Kremlin’s doing, eliminated his most dangerous domestic foe. On the battlefield, Russia already appeared to be successful in repelling Ukraine’s counteroffensive.

Mr. Putin and his government exuded stability and confidence. The president continued to go for his morning swims, several people with knowledge of his schedule said. Top Kremlin officials had gone back to taking vacations.

“They’ve calmed down already,” Prime Minister Akylbek Zhaparov of Kyrgyzstan said in an interview in October, referring to the surprise and worry among many Russian officials and the elite when Mr. Putin invaded Ukraine last year. After first seeing Mr. Putin’s war as a “catastrophe,” he added, “they’ve now gotten used to it.”



Kremlin Confidence​

On a Saturday in October, Mr. Putin marked his 71st birthday with the leaders of Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, two Central Asian countries that have tried to take a neutral stance in the war. When they arrived at his suburban Moscow residence, Mr. Putin got behind the wheel of a new Russian-made limo, showing off one of the ways in which, in the Kremlin’s telling, Russia is becoming more self-sufficient.

Once indoors, the three leaders spoke about a plan to sell Russian gas to Uzbekistan. A person present recalled Mr. Putin’s calm confidence and relaxed body language.

“He doesn’t look like a man who’s waging war,” the person said.

Only after a birthday lunch did they grasp the full significance of events elsewhere. It was Oct. 7.

The terrorist attack by Hamas that day — and Israel’s fierce military response — proved to be a propaganda boon for Russia, pulling attention away from Ukraine and allowing Mr. Putin to line up with much of the world in condemning the bombardment of Gaza and American support for Israel.

“He sees that the attention of the West is turning away,” said Balazs Orban, an aide to Prime Minister Viktor Orban who participated in the Hungarian leader’s meeting with Mr. Putin in October.

In late October, Grigory A. Yavlinsky, a liberal Russian politician, waited past midnight for an audience at the Kremlin. He said he tried to impress upon Mr. Putin the scale of the Russian deaths in Ukraine, which dwarfed Soviet losses over a decade of war in Afghanistan.

Then Mr. Yavlinsky made what he said was his central pitch in the 90-minute meeting: If Mr. Putin were prepared “at least to think about a cease-fire,” Mr. Yavlinsky, who was born in western Ukraine, would be ready to act as a negotiator.

“The fact that he agreed to talk to me for so long speaks for itself,” he said.



Cease-Fire Opening​

Since at least September, Western officials have been picking up renewed signals that Mr. Putin is interested in a cease-fire.

The signals come through multiple channels, including via foreign governments with ties to both the United States and Russia. Unofficial Russian emissaries have spoken to interlocutors about the contours of a potential deal that Mr. Putin would accept, American officials and others said.

“Putin and the Russian army, they don’t want to stretch their capacity further,” said the international official who met with top Russian officials this fall.

Mr. Putin has also made vague public comments about being open to negotiations, which have largely been dismissed by Western commentators.

Some analysts argue that Mr. Putin benefits from a long war, and that he wants to delay any negotiation until a possible return to office by former President Donald J. Trump, the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination in 2024. The former Russian officials said that Mr. Putin would prefer to strike a deal sooner, given the uncertainty inherent in war.

They said that Mr. Putin’s propaganda could easily spin the status quo as a victory, celebrating a land corridor to Crimea, an army that withstood Ukraine’s Western-supplied counteroffensive and Russia’s claimed annexation of four Ukrainian regions — papering over the fact that Russia doesn’t fully control them.

The ideal timing, one of the people said, would be before Russia’s presidential election in March. Mr. Putin is certain to secure another six-year term, but he cares deeply about the election as a marker of his domestic support.

Publicly, Mr. Putin has stuck to his aggressive stance, saying he is resisting a West seeking to destroy a 1,000-year-old Russian civilization.

But American officials see a shift in Mr. Putin’s position, noting that he is no longer demanding the departure of Mr. Zelensky’s government. They said that the cease-fire being floated by Mr. Putin would maintain a sovereign Ukraine with Kyiv as its capital, but leave Russia in control of the nearly 20 percent of Ukrainian territory it has already conquered. They added that while Mr. Putin is telegraphing that he is open to such a deal, he is waiting to be brought a more specific offer.

Among the many likely sticking points is Mr. Putin’s determination to keep Ukraine out of NATO. But one of the former Russian officials said a disagreement on that score would not be a deal breaker for Mr. Putin, because the alliance is not expected to admit Ukraine in the foreseeable future.

Still, senior American officials said they did not believe that any prominent Ukrainian politician could agree at this time to a deal leaving Russia with so much Ukrainian territory.

Another potential impasse stems from Mr. Putin’s efforts to put the United States at the center of any negotiations.

The U.S. and Russian governments have channels for communications on issues that include prisoner swaps. But William J. Burns, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Sergei Naryshkin, the director of Russia’s foreign intelligence service, last met about a year ago in Turkey, officials said. And U.S. officials say the United States has not and will not negotiate on behalf of Ukraine.

American officials argue that regardless of Mr. Putin’s overture, Ukraine must demonstrate its staying power, and the United States must show it is willing to support Ukraine to puncture Mr. Putin’s confidence that time is on his side and to force concessions in any negotiations.

Many in the West are skeptical of a cease-fire because they say Mr. Putin would rearm for a future assault. President Edgars Rinkevics of Latvia argued in an interview that Mr. Putin was committed to war because he dreams of “re-establishing the empire.”

“They never honored any agreements,” Mr. Rinkevics said of the Russians, “and they have violated them immediately when they saw it was convenient.”

Reporting was contributed by Neil MacFarquhar, John Eligon, Declan Walsh, Andrew E. Kramer and Valerie Hopkins.


Anton Troianovski is the Moscow bureau chief for The Times. He writes about Russia, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Central Asia. More about Anton Troianovski

Adam Entous is a Washington-based investigative correspondent and a two-time Pulitzer Prize winner. Before joining the Washington bureau of The Times, he covered intelligence, national security and foreign policy for The New Yorker magazine, The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal. More about Adam Entous

Julian E. Barnes covers the U.S. intelligence agencies and international security matters for The Times. He has written about security issues for more than two decades. More about Julian E. Barnes
 

Chronic

All Star
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
1,795
Reputation
3,081
Daps
7,993
At this point it's better for Ukrainian draft dodgers to escape to Russia and Belarus. At least they won't repatriate you to Ukraine.


 
Top