Boiler Room: The Official Stock Market Discussion

JetFueledThoughts

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Yeah wouldn’t be surprised to see a 1 point next meeting. shyt is getting out of control. Everyday, gas prices goes up, I notice restaurants are raising their prices basically every other month.

Speak to me like I’m 6, are the factors leading to inflation vs. the factors leading to recession basically inverse?

Ie, do we need to hike rates and enter a recession to fight inflation? Other side, would we need to ignore rates and continue to let inflation skyrocket in order to avoid a recession? Is it zero sum?
 

JetFueledThoughts

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I have spoken to alot of black people who act like 2008 wasn't that bad or don't remember. I was in banking and felt the opposite. This upcoming recession will be worse than that right?

My experience is probably skewed because I was 17 in 2008, so I just watched my mom freak out. But I’ve been thinking this feels moderate compared to 2008.

Biggest fallout is still to come I think, layoffs will follow the market. But I don’t feel like this is as bad as 2008, it may be exacerbated by people losing their jobs right as prices inflate every week.
 
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Can someone explain why the market is jumping after the Fed announcement AND signaling that another 50 or 75 basis points is likely for the next Fed meeting?
 

phcitywarrior

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I have spoken to alot of black people who act like 2008 wasn't that bad or don't remember. I was in banking and felt the opposite. This upcoming recession will be worse than that right?

No one knows till it happens. But I do think the next recession may not be as sharp, but might be very prolonged, kinda like slowly letting an air out of a balloon.

I was still a teen during the last recession. I know my dad was laid off but before his lay off he got another/better job. My mom was still working at the time. Parents actually bought at the bottom of the housing crash.

Speak to me like I’m 6, are the factors leading to inflation vs. the factors leading to recession basically inverse?

Ie, do we need to hike rates and enter a recession to fight inflation? Other side, would we need to ignore rates and continue to let inflation skyrocket in order to avoid a recession? Is it zero sum?

Inflation is generally a monetary (demand) issue. Too much money chasing too few goods. However, as we’ve seen in the energy markets, there is a supply side component as well.

What the Fed is trying to do is curtail economic demand by making it more expensive to borrow money and thus limit spending (the US is a debt based economy). Interest rates being so low for so long made it “cheap” to get money aka credit. Moreover, the Fed increased the total money supply some 40% in the past 3 years give or take.

In a few months the Fed will start unwinding its balance sheet / selling its assets (bonds, MBS etc) on the open market to try “suck” money out of the system. After that it plans to destroy the money.

In theory, if there is less money chasing goods, that should slow the rate of inflation, but that drop in demand would trigger a recession. But this situation is a little tricky in that there are some aspects of the inflation out of the Fed’s hand, namely energy markets.

You could see a situation where they hike rates but inflation remains high because of the high cost of oil/energy. Since energy is an input in pretty much every industry, an increase in energy costs is almost a direct increase in production, shipping, manufacturing costs which get pushed to the consumer.

Outside chance we could see a recession, high IR, high prices AND relatively high inflation.

Also, the Fed hiking IR isn’t an exact science to cool demand. Just a tool they think will influence spending and borrowing behavior. There are external factors that it doesn’t influence.
 
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bnew

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MeachTheMonster

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Yeah I'm really not doing anything right now. I'm kind of just watching. I'll cop some stuff I wouldn't mind "holding" if it drops significantly.

But I'm under the impression that the market isn't going instantly turn fully bull in a couple weeks.

If they say our inflation is really bad, then expecting things to get a lot more turbulent from here.


Once again, I'm not a financial advisor, I'm usually wrong, just stating my bs opinion. :hubie:
Not to say i disagree with you, but inflation itself don’t make the market go down.

It’s the fear of what inflation might do to the economy that makes the market go down.

When that fear starts to go away, the market will rally. It’s pretty much impossible to call when that will happen. But i’ll guess it will be well before inflation numbers themselves turn around.
 

lib123

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Can someone explain why the market is jumping after the Fed announcement AND signaling that another 50 or 75 basis points is likely for the next Fed meeting?

Bond markets had priced in a 16% chance of a 100 bps hike, so there was some relief that it wasn't that high. Also probably a lot of dip buyers buying while potential sellers stayed on the sidelines.
 

lib123

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I have spoken to alot of black people who act like 2008 wasn't that bad or don't remember. I was in banking and felt the opposite. This upcoming recession will be worse than that right?

Unless inflation goes absolutely crazy (eg +15-20%), it probably won't be as bad. IMO a lot of this inflation aside from oil and supply-chain issues is lowkey gouging. Some companies like Chipotle have even admitted on earnings that they raised prices to test out if demand would stay the same and since they found it did kept them high. And if inflation was such a universal problem, in theory more businesses should be having profitability issues in their earnings reports which hasn't really been the case. Once consumer demand declines from less spending (eg layoffs, people fearing layoffs & saving more money, people feeling poorer from market declines & saving more money), I predict a lot of prices will "suddenly" stop rising and/or drop overnight. '08 was bad because the financial system had to work hundreds of billions worth of garbage mortgages out of the system. However, an unknown curveball is how a sudden crypto collapse could impact the wider financial system.
 

Deafheaven

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Not even concerned any more. If shyt goes into a recession it is what it is. can only control yourself. invest in non dogshyt, hope you live to see the other side of the recession. avoid options unless you are a god with them. profit. you can still go parabolic with hotboy common plays. Sidu went nuts today

may start a position in google if the price of the brick drops enough.


Anything can happen, Vlad could get offed next week and the war ends and spy goes nuts. its no point trying to time this shyt any more and I'm glad I realized that early into my investing shyt so I don't continue to make boneheaded plays.
 

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Not to say i disagree with you, but inflation itself don’t make the market go down.

It’s the fear of what inflation might do to the economy that makes the market go down.

When that fear starts to go away, the market will rally. It’s pretty much impossible to call when that will happen. But i’ll guess it will be well before inflation numbers themselves turn around.

it's also that the growing spread between rates changes investment strategies. US rates going up make treasuries more attractive than risky relatively low rate MBS's for example. or for example makes swapping to the US dollar (FX) more attractive than holding stock (which will more likely than not be affected by reduced spending. this dynamic repeats in many scenarios.
 
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