Bill Maher: Occupy should stop camping & start participating in the political process

[714562]

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[Yuzo]

As far as income inequality, there's no silver bullet for that. Perhaps they could rally around raising the top marginal tax rates, eliminating the loopholes, really regulating the banks, getting out of Afghanistan and elsewhere overseas, reform of campaign financing, and drastically cutting the bloated military budget, but that's where the need for real organization, vision, and participation in the political process comes in.

E.ON AG - E.ON: multi-billion-euro program for energy transformation

germany is investing 7 billion euro into clean energy technology like off shore wind farms and solar panels over the next 5 years. the government there is trying to go something like 80% energy from clean renewable sources by 2020

anyway thats probably going to create some jobs too.

can we do something like this is america?

 

[kermit da hustla]

Unless armed revolution is the option,

 

[Jello Biafra]

The bolded is complete bullshyt. The tea party is backed and funded by corporate front groups like American For Prosperity and Freedom Works. This is common knowledge. Astroturfing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Tea Party began as a grassroots movement but quickly became co-opted. I have always felt that the reason for that is the Tea Party becoming too cozy with the Republican Party and that is exactly why the Occupy movement should refuse to do what Bill Maher wants. All Maher and those like him want is a loud rabble rousing contingent to get out the vote for Democrats and make newsworthy scenes at Mitt Romney rallies. They don't really want a true movement that focuses on the economic disparity in this country and shines a light on the incestuousness relationship between elected officials and big money because that would mean that the Democrats would have to be targeted too.

 

[Serious]

Unless armed revolution is the option.

I would never instigate this in any way, but I always think about how the French revolution showed who's really in power.

Things in this country always start to get ugly when "average white people can't find jobs" A scapegoat normally comes into emission to deflect the true issue at hand . Right now it's immigration ( Hispanics ) because Joe the Plumber can't pursue his dream job of working hard at McDonald's or mowing lawns. Next it'll be all blacks, single handily, putting this country in debt through welfare and ebt.

@ the cats in that short doc.

Honestly, the best way to probably affect big name corporations, is find a way to boycott them. If you can figure out an effective way to boycott some of America's overly paid corporations "who stole" your jobs than you might be able to implement change. I guess shouting chants all day is much more effective...

 

[TrueEpic08]

Honestly in theory, i believe Occupy Wallstreet was a great movement but poorly executed.

I lost all faith in this movement after I saw this episode of MTV True Life

True Life | I'm Occupying Wall Street | MTV

It literally televised numerous people who couldn't fully diagnose the issue at hand.

Ideally, as soon as something like this happened, Occupy should have, disbanded, reformed in a different conception and given an actual set of goals to rally against. Once something like this happens, your credibility as a revolutionary, or even a reformist force in this country is shot dead.

Also, see what I mean about media training?

Honestly, the best way to probably affect big name corporations, is find a way to boycott them. If you can figure out an effective way to boycott some of America's overly paid corporations "who stole" your jobs than you might be able to implement change. I guess shouting chants all day is much more effective...

You could try something like a "don't pay" strike, where workers take over factories, transportation, stores, restaurants and the like, and give them away as needed, rather than a typical/wildcat strike or even worker's council's. Show them that you don't need them and their management and especially their extortionist practices regarding the basic means of life (privatizing transportation to squeeze more money out of us beasts with a profit margin above our heads, things like that) to be able to live as a collective society.

I know the Greeks had been trying this to some extent in regards to services and transportation.

 

[LastEmperor2k2]

Bill Maher is a fukking clown.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

...so a movement created and advertised by a Canadian magazine that's been openly criticized for its commercialized style of protest (Adbusters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), promoted by rich music celebrities, and co-signed by old lefty money wasn't astro-turfed? Hell, even Adbusters itself admits that its leaders were seduced by "old lefty cash and minor celebrity status." fukk out of here. Both movements were co-opted.

FreedomWorks got involved after the Tea Party had already begun shape. People like Graham Makohoniuk, Stephanie Jasky, and Karl Denninger had no connection to FreedomWorks at all. Hell, Karl Denninger even said he SUPPORTS the Occupy movement. Now imagine that Karl Denninger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stop it. You said in your previous post the tea party is not corporate funded. That is simply a factually wrong statement, like saying the Earth if flat.

The tea party did start as simply a group of people concerned with fiscal issues, mostly of the libertarian variety, then it quickly morphed into a rebranding of the God, gays, and guns Republican voter base by the first couple of month of 2009.

Equating some celebrities and few prominent lefty businessmen like Jerry Cohen throwing cash to and co-signing OWS to the Koch Brothers and all their corporate front groups literally providing the organizational and logistical support and funding for the Republican base activist who call themselves the tea party for the specific purpose of electing Republicans so they can enact policy changes favorable to their industries is idiotic.

The tea party is nothing more than big corporations using the angst and fear of a certain voter demographic as a tool to enact policy that increases their profit at this point. OWS at this point still is a grassroots movement. The whole point of the thread debate is to determine where it should go from here, and should it be part of the political game that the tea party is already firmly entrenched in.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

The Tea Party began as a grassroots movement but quickly became co-opted. I have always felt that the reason for that is the Tea Party becoming too cozy with the Republican Party and that is exactly why the Occupy movement should refuse to do what Bill Maher wants. All Maher and those like him want is a loud rabble rousing contingent to get out the vote for Democrats and make newsworthy scenes at Mitt Romney rallies. They don't really want a true movement that focuses on the economic disparity in this country and shines a light on the incestuousness relationship between elected officials and big money because that would mean that the Democrats would have to be targeted too.

Yeah, but I'm not even co-signing Bill Maher or the claim that they fold into the Democratic party. I do think that at some point they are going to have to get involved in the process or become irrelevant. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to become Democrats. They could run as independents. Or as Democrats if that's the best route for that particular election. But if any of them do link with the Democrats, they would need to make the Democrats come to them and meet them on their grounds. The threat of primarying them either as Democrats or independents could be a useful tool.

Either that or up. New age Reign of Terror? - ProjectCOVO.com Global Forum

Sleeping in tents and doing performance arts in the street

 

[ogc163]

I would never instigate this in any way, but I always think about how the French revolution showed who's really in power.

Things in this country always start to get ugly when "average white people can't find jobs" A scapegoat normally comes into emission to deflect the true issue at hand . Right now it's immigration ( Hispanics ) because Joe the Plumber can't pursue his dream job of working hard at McDonald's or mowing lawns. Next it'll be all blacks, single handily, putting this country in debt through welfare and ebt.




Honestly, the best way to probably affect big name corporations, is find a way to boycott them. If you can figure out an effective way to boycott some of America's overly paid corporations "who stole" your jobs than you might be able to implement change. I guess shouting chants all day is much more effective...

Boycotts work if there are viable alternatives in the wings waiting. But you can't expect people to abandon companies if that company is relatively speaking the "best" as it relates to the services they provide. The current issue with realistically decreasing the market share of incompetent/corporatist financial firms is that market entry is relatively difficult and expensive for upstarts.

 

[THEANGEL&THEGAMBLER]

The sad thing for the left is that the Wisconsin vote had a great turnout for the base. The reality is that the Dem base only make up about 21% of the electorate the rest are Moderates and Conservatives. So more people need to actually register and get involved.

The Tea party and Religious right have had their success using a very righteous and paranoid style that is take no prisoners but I don't think the left can have success using that method when they are out numbered by Conservatives at almost 2-to-1 in voting.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Boycotts work if there are viable alternatives in the wings waiting. But you can't expect people to abandon companies if that company is relatively speaking the "best" as it relates to the services they provide. .

Word. Those boycotts and sit-ins in the 60's had no chance of working. National City Lines was the best at providing bus travel in Montgomery, AL. I hear Woolworth's had some good 2 for 1's too.

 

[Serious]

Boycotts work if there are viable alternatives in the wings waiting. But you can't expect people to abandon companies if that company is relatively speaking the "best" as it relates to the services they provide. The current issue with realistically decreasing the market share of incompetent/corporatist financial firms is that market entry is relatively difficult and expensive for upstarts.

Honestly, I'm no finance / econ major ( waits someone to take this out of context) .

The only point I was trying to make, was instead, being unorganized (IMO) standing around singing kumbaya, maybe the OWS protesters should have developed an innovative leadership. Which inturn could make the necessary connections to stage a nation wide boycott through some loophole. There's bound to be a few if you search hard enough....

How the heck do you expect to see change, and command a revolution if you don't take the necessary steps in becoming a bit radical.

 

[ogc163]

Word. Those boycotts and sit-ins in the 60's had no chance of working. National City Lines was the best at providing bus travel in Montgomery, AL. I hear Woolworth's had some good 2 for 1's too.

 

[ogc163]

Honestly, I'm no finance / econ major ( what's someone to take this out of context) .

The only point I was trying to make, was instead, being unorganized (IMO) standing around singing kumbaya, maybe the OWS protesters should have developed an innovative leadership. Which inturn could make the necessary connections to stage a nation wide boycott through some loophole. There's bound to be a few if you search hard enough....

How the heck do you expect to see change, and command a revolution if you don't take the necessary steps in becoming a bit radical.

I was thinking more in terms of there ability to strongly convince the average American to step away from the likes of Chase,BofA, Wells Fargo etc. If the average joe sees the flaws in the current setup but does not see a realistic alternative then they are likely to maintain a relationship with those who represent the status quo. That would entail focusing in on consumers having more options as it relates specifically to financial services.