Bill Maher: Occupy should stop camping & start participating in the political process

[HoLLaBaCK]

He is correct! All this politicians are pandering to the Tea Party bc they are out there voting. Sleeping in parks aint doing shyt! They were camped out for days b4 the media even reported it.

Politicians only care about 2 things:

1. Making backdoor money thru shady contracts and shyt like that.

2. Your vote bc without your vote they can't accomplish #1.

They give their friends deals and get under the table money. These dudes go into office well off and leave rich.

 

[TrueEpic08]

So I think the divergence in proposed methodologies boils down to you would like to see a revolution and a socialist or anarchist paradigm rise in its place, whereas I don't want to go that far.

Not that I like what we have now. But like I said, if I was starting a country from scratch, I'd probably propose going with democratic socialism of the Scandinavian variety, but I don't think this country is ideologically anywhere near desiring anarcho-syndicalism or any political system rooted in marxist thought.

I would look to more pragmatic solutions that try to make the best out of what we do have as opposed to a full-blown revolution. I think the #1 poison plaguing our system is the corporate money in politics and that should be the primary issue for OWS or any other grassroots movement that seriously wants to change things.

I respect your political ideology, but I just do not think it could realistically gain any sort of traction. America's character is one of individualism and "don't tread on me" ethos. It's always been that way. Just listen to average discourse on talk radio or the internet or at your job or wherever. Ain't nobody living in any communes outside of fringe hippies bruh, lol. I'm farther to the left than most of the people in this country, but that's not for me or anyone I know.

The main thing is messaging, communication, and education. If you can't fight money with money, you have to fight it with ideas that resonate. The candidate with the largest war chest almost always wins. So the tipping point that would need to be reached in order to offset this would be to spread the good message as forcefully and ubiquitously as possible, and expose the fact that your ideas might not have as much money-backing them, but they're superior and better for the people. If you look at the WI recall, yeah it was a massive L for public unions and a win for Walker, but you think about it, dude barely won despite having outspent the other side $34 million to $4 million. People just need to pull back the curtain and expose that. That's why it is important for OWS or whoever is serious about changing our political process to have effective organization, involvement, and messaging.

Would I like to see a revolution in action? Yeah. Do I think it will happen? Well, seeing as America was founded (as an independent country) because they got sick of George III and British Parliament restricting their trade, and that type of mercantilist and individualist attitude has persisted since, probably not anytime soon. Even on a channel like Current TV, that type of industrialist, individualist attitude is prevalent. But I'm the type of guy that starts from utopia, plans from it, then works my way back to practicality. That's just me.

That second (though they do need strategies for more structural changes, the issue of Citizens United and the like IS fresh and one thing that they can do something about immediately; that should have been the number one thing when they started out actually) and last paragraphs are correct, but one more thing needs to be kept in mind that relates to that: "Words can be turned against you," and they will be. It seems like a lot of the Occupy spokespeople are not prepared for this, and fumble when those words are turned, making the movement look more disorganized and listless than it actually is. Possibly even more than education in the issues or uniting along a single essentialist platform is the fact that whomever the persons are that represent Occupy (everybody that you can possibly train like this, actually, since channels like Fox News will just try to find an idiot in the crowd if the "official" types are too well-trained, and that's just not difficult at all) need serious media training. ESPECIALLY if you're going to be fighting money politics and Super PACs with decentralized and media concentrated tactics.

 

[Jello Biafra]

If you look at the WI recall, yeah it was a massive L for public unions and a win for Walker, but you think about it, dude barely won despite having outspent the other side $34 million to $4 million. People just need to pull back the curtain and expose that. That's why it is important for OWS or whoever is serious about changing our political process to have effective organization, involvement, and messaging.

He won by 7 percentage points which is not a small win in political terms but it is a case of money buying elections which is not a new phenomena...Obama beat McCain by the same margin in 2008 while outspending him by a wide margin. Money has been tipping the scales in election for years but no one considers it an issue until their side gets outspent and loses.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

Maher is a fukking shill for the Democratic party and anyone who doesn't see that by now is braindead.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

He won by 7 percentage points which is not a small win in political terms but it is a case of money buying elections which is not a new phenomena...Obama beat McCain by the same margin in 2008 while outspending him by a wide margin. Money has been tipping the scales in election for years but no one considers it an issue until their side gets outspent and loses.

Obama outspent McCain 3-1. Walker outspent his opponent 9-1. I didn't realize Walker won by that big of a margin though.

 

[OsO]

You don't know anything at all about the political process at all though. You admittedly do not even pay attention to politics in the slightest. You're speaking from a perspective of total ignorance. You don't even understand how any of the problems take root in the first place because you refuse to educate yourself, so you couldn't possibly envision any solutions.

once again vic, you dont know wtf youre talking about. i dont form concrete opinions on topics i havent studied thoroughly unlike your smart-dumb-nikka ass.

not only do i study politics, but it is my study of politics that has led me to the conclusion that mobilizing for political participation should not be the main focus of any movement seeking real social change.

and notice i said MAIN focus, because it's not that political power should be ignored all together, but rather it should not be emphasized more than other initiatives, especially not mobilizing for ECONOMIC power.

and let me tell you why...

1) the folks at occupy originally mobilized under an ECONOMIC premise. if there was one consistency with OWS it's that everyone wanted more accountability and equality when it came to the $.

but on the political side the people of OWS are about as diverse politically as regular society is, so asking them to unanimously support a consistent political platform is not realistic.

but despite their differences in political opinion, everyone at OWS could rally around an ECONOMIC message, so thats the first reason they should organize economically instead of politically

2) what is it people hope to accomplish by actively participating in the political process? they hope to influence the politicians who will influence the laws which will influence society in such a way that positively affects the quality of their life, correct?

but why deal with a middle man? why depend on the government to increase your quality of life when you can accomplish it by simply uniting and organizing in an economic cooperative?

would being guaranteed food, water, shelter, basic healthcare, etc, positively change the quality of people's lives? or would an extra $2000 or $5000 of income per month greatly increase the quality in one's life? i think so... AND you wouldnt have to wait for the good ol boys in congress to make it happen, cuz fukkin with them it might NEVER happen

this is about unity and economics breh, pointblankperiod.

3) the political system was historically designed to be a system of checks and balances where inequalities and injustices cannot happen or are rare. but currently it operates under the paradigm that the people with the most money influence policy the most. youre trying to compete with the people who are running the game, designed the game, and know every loophole and shortcut in the game.... the political arena is not a level playing field.

the political system itself is full of corruption. they will re-draw districts and boundaries, they will bombard the public with propaganda and misinformation, they will sell dreams and promises to the people... or worse come to worse they will simply not count your vote like they did those negroes in florida. but this is the social improvement strategy with which you wanna place ya faith?

so the solutions i support are simple. and better yet they have been proven to work. everybody can eat off community-based economics... this is proven historical fact.

so you go ahead and teach people about PACs and voting in elections and that's fine... and i'll teach the people about owning land, community entrepreneurship, and community economics, and we'll see what happens

 

[newarkhiphop]

I participated LIGHTLY in occupy NY and the now defunct occupy Newark and as much as people hate to say this i think what the Occupy movements need the most is some type of semi organized leadership if you have ever been to any of these the one thing you will notice is that there isn't any cohesiveness, yea the whole "we are all leaders" sound symbolically nice but it doesnt help them move forward

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

once again vic, you dont know wtf youre talking about. i dont form concrete opinions on topics i havent studied thoroughly unlike your smart-dumb-nikka ass.

not only do i study politics, but it is my study of politics that has led me to the conclusion that mobilizing for political participation should not be the main focus of any movement seeking real social change.

and notice i said MAIN focus, because it's not that political power should be ignored all together, but rather it should not be emphasized more than other initiatives, especially not mobilizing for ECONOMIC power.

and let me tell you why...

1) the folks at occupy originally mobilized under an ECONOMIC premise. if there was one consistency with OWS it's that everyone wanted more accountability and equality when it came to the $.

but on the political side the people of OWS are about as diverse politically as regular society is, so asking them to unanimously support a consistent political platform is not realistic.

but despite their differences in political opinion, everyone at OWS could rally around an ECONOMIC message, so thats the first reason they should organize economically instead of politically

2) what is it people hope to accomplish by actively participating in the political process? they hope to influence the politicians who will influence the laws which will influence society in such a way that positively affects the quality of their life, correct?

but why deal with a middle man? why depend on the government to increase your quality of life when you can accomplish it by simply uniting and organizing in an economic cooperative?

would being guaranteed food, water, shelter, basic healthcare, etc, positively change the quality of people's lives? or would an extra $2000 or $5000 of income per month greatly increase the quality in one's life? i think so... AND you wouldnt have to wait for the good ol boys in congress to make it happen, cuz fukkin with them it might NEVER happen

this is about unity and economics breh, pointblankperiod.

3) the political system was historically designed to be a system of checks and balances where inequalities and injustices cannot happen or are rare. but currently it operates under the paradigm that the people with the most money influence policy the most. youre trying to compete with the people who are running the game, designed the game, and know every loophole and shortcut in the game.... the political arena is not a level playing field.

the political system itself is full of corruption. they will re-draw districts and boundaries, they will bombard the public with propaganda and misinformation, they will sell dreams and promises to the people... or worse come to worse they will simply not count your vote like they did those negroes in florida. but this is the social improvement strategy with which you wanna place ya faith?

so the solutions i support are simple. and better yet they have been proven to work. everybody can eat off community-based economics... this is proven historical fact.

so you go ahead and teach people about PACs and voting in elections and that's fine... and i'll teach the people about owning land, community entrepreneurship, and community economics, and we'll see what happens

Sirius question, WHY THE F*CK DO YA'LL CARE ABOUT POLITICS?!? - ProjectCOVO.com Global Forum

 

[Scustin Trillberlake]

They need to transform themselves into a viable third party based on the principles of democratic socialism.

 

[88m3]

occupy in Europe is doing well


screw maher

 

[Serious]

Honestly in theory, i believe Occupy Wallstreet was a great movement but poorly executed.

I lost all faith in this movement after I saw this episode of MTV True Life

True Life | I'm Occupying Wall Street | MTV

It literally televised numerous people who couldn't fully diagnose the issue at hand.

Point blank, we live in a society ( America ) where many people are not properly educated ( includes college graduates )

Knowledge and critical thinking are underrated.

Poverty is real and corruption is rampant. The American Political System is outdated, it's like trying to put a band aid over a shotgun wound that requires intensive surgery to heal.

@ having modern day Supreme Court Justices, who try to interpret the constitution in the same light, Americas founding fathers did, in the 18th century....

 

[88m3]

I know many people my age who can discuss at length the issues that effect the United States, the world, and positive step to remedy the issues. Don't let a select few people effect your thoughts on what is happening in this country, how some people see the issues at hand, and what people are willing to do to work towards a solution. A lot of people I've met the last few years I've found truly reassuring for myself in knowing that I'm not alone when it comes to change for political and social issues in the United States and throughout the world.

 

[714562]

.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Occupy can't "participate" because they have nothing to participate for. They're a bunch of smarmy, white college kids with liberal arts degrees and no real education who can't find jobs suitable enough for their egos. They're too busy forming committees that differentiate between "females" and "female bodied people" to form any coherent or reasonable set of demands.

The Tea Party on the other hand, had one very clear agenda: fukk Barack Obama and everything about him. And no, they were not corporate sponsored. At least no more than Occupy was. Just stupid in a sort of parallel way.

The bolded is complete bullshyt. The tea party is backed and funded by corporate front groups like American For Prosperity and Freedom Works. This is common knowledge. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

 

[ogc163]

Honestly in theory, i believe Occupy Wallstreet was a great movement but poorly executed.

I lost all faith in this movement after I saw this episode of MTV True Life

True Life | I'm Occupying Wall Street | MTV

It literally televised numerous people who couldn't fully diagnose the issue at hand.

Point blank, we live in a society ( America ) where many people are not properly educated ( includes college graduates )

Knowledge and critical thinking are underrated.

Poverty is real and corruption is rampant. The American Political System is outdated, it's like trying to put a band aid over a shotgun wound that requires intensive surgery to heal.

@ having modern day Supreme Court Justices, who try to interpret the constitution in the same light, Americas founding fathers did, in the 18th century....

@ the cats in that short doc.