Bill Laimbeer says "LeBron is the GOAT" (First Take)

[#1 pick]

I suppose we both have different definitions of what we consider "aesthetic". Lebron is an excellent passer and it is the best part of his game. Not a huge fan of bully basketball tho, I prefer to watch guys who use more of their skills to get their shots off and/or score.

And the superteam point isn't moot at all. Funny U call it the FA/ player movement era without acknowledging Lebron is the face of said movement.

Effectiveness is Effectiveness. If you need fluidity and smoothness, that's on you. That's why I say, if you think XnX is better for you than that's your take. I don't like watching Harden's game but it's as effective as I've ever seen in terms of scoring.

 

[#1 pick]

Niqqa....are you talking made for tv hero ball game ending moments?

the fukk??

Some nikkas ain't even worth quoting. nikkas living live like an ESPN talking head. nikka think he Skip. Skip gets paid millions for pointless sound clips for entertainment. That doesn't mean we need to ruin topics to troll.

 

[Blurneed]

Effectiveness is Effectiveness. If you need fluidity and smoothness, that's on you. That's why I say, if you think XnX is better for you than that's your take. I don't like watching Harden's game but it's as effective as I've ever seen in terms of scoring.

I shoulda been more specific...I'm talking winners lol. Hardens game never translated to results when it mattered. Not a fan of Hardens game to be honest either although he is crafty.

I'm talking being able to be crafty and skillful AND being efficient all at once. Thats MJ. U can watch a Harden highlight video all day or even say AI, n it looks great but when u look deeper they shooting like 43%.

U see an MJ highlight video u see just as exciting if not more material, then u dig deeper n see he shooting like 50% scoring in every which way, with either hand with polish and craft,with the elite midrange game AND winning chips too. It's just way more impressive. Hes the GOAT this discussion needs to stop

 

[ISO]

I suppose we both have different definitions of what we consider "aesthetic". Lebron is an excellent passer and it is the best part of his game. Not a huge fan of bully basketball tho, I prefer to watch guys who use more of their skills to get their shots off and/or score.

And the superteam point isn't moot at all. Funny U call it the FA/ player movement era without acknowledging Lebron is the face of said movement.

Meh. LeBron is power/explosiveness, speed, I.Q., skill all in one 6’8 260 lb. package. He’s done it all. By the time his career is over and his early highlights are mastered in HD he’ll have a ridiculous highlight reel hours upon hours. 30 footers, chasedown blocks, sick passes, post fades, acrobatic lay-ups, poster dunks, windmills, gamewinners, spin moves, floaters. He’s done it all and has changed his style/adjusted to several different eras from the dead ball era to modern pace and space. U like what u like though.

LeBron didn’t start FA/player movement. By the 2000’s teams were more aggressive in pursuing trades/players in requesting them and players were leaving to other teams through free agency. There was already a “hot stove” culture around basketball free agency. How the hell did LeBron start superteams when pretty much all the dominant teams in NBA history had multiple All-Stars and Hall of Famers.

 

[Blurneed]

Meh. LeBron is power/explosiveness, speed, I.Q., skill all in one 6’8 260 lb. package. He’s done it all. By the time his career is over and his early highlights are mastered in HD he’ll have a ridiculous highlight reel hours upon hours. 30 footers, chasedown blocks, sick passes, post fades, acrobatic lay-ups, poster dunks, windmills, gamewinners, spin moves, floaters. He’s done it all and has changed his style/adjusted to several different eras from the dead ball era to modern pace and space. U like what u like though.

LeBron didn’t start FA/player movement. By the 2000’s teams were more aggressive in pursuing trades/players in requesting them and players were leaving to other teams through free agency. There was already a “hot stove” culture around basketball free agency. How the hell did LeBron start superteams when pretty much all the dominant teams in NBA history had multiple All-Stars and Hall of Famers.

I mean, by the time Lebrons career is over he would have amassed a lot of highlights based off years played by default. But on a game to game basis ,in the moment, MJ displayed more skills on the offensive end than Lebron. Just for example, I seen MJ kill nikkas with the post fadeaway as his go-to move for a good stretch of games in his career. Lebrons go to move has and always will be bully ball when all else fails. It requires less skill than being money from midrange. I dont think that can be argued.

Understandably Lebron has better vision and is clearly a better passer, MJ wasnt that much worse of a playmaker and he usually still made the right play just by being great and not necessarily having to control everything.

But overall it seems u prefer the powerful bully ball style over the more graceful style of basketball, I'm not gonna argue that its ur preference.

And yeah, I didnt say Lebron started superteams, I said he was the face of it. Meaning he was the first guy considered to be the best in the world to recruit other no 1 options n monopolized the East. To act like the decision wasnt the first of it's kind would be disingenuous. It clearly influenced the culture with the best of the best wanting to team up together years down the line up to this day.

 

[ISO]

I mean, by the time Lebrons career is over he would have amassed a lot of highlights based off years played by default. But on a game to game basis ,in the moment, MJ displayed more skills on the offensive end than Lebron. Just for example, I seen MJ kill nikkas with the post fadeaway as his go-to move for a good stretch of games in his career. Lebrons go to move has and always will be bully ball when all else fails. It requires less skill than being money from midrange. I dont think that can be argued.

Understandably Lebron has better vision and is clearly a better passer, MJ wasnt that much worse of a playmaker and he usually still made the right play just by being great and not necessarily having to control everything.

But overall it seems u prefer the powerful bully ball style over the more graceful style of basketball, I'm not gonna argue that its ur preference.

And yeah, I didnt say Lebron started superteams, I said he was the face of it. Meaning he was the first guy considered to be the best in the world to recruit other no 1 options n monopolized the East. To act like the decision wasnt the first of it's kind would be disingenuous. It clearly influenced the culture with the best of the best wanting to team up together years down the line up to this day.

U are dismissing LeBron as bully ball and that’s horse shyt

It’s also not about longevity LeBron’s 2010 highlights>>nikkas careers

Having a nationally televised decision was new teaming up with other players was not new. Signing to a different team wasn’t new. Requesting a trade to a better team wasn’t new. Forcing yourself to a better market for marketing/endorsements and better weather wasn’t new. And at the time Boston had a monopoly on the East with 4 All-Stars in their starting 5. LeBron, Wade, Bosh ran on one man teams and they had planned this for years. The way LeBron went about it and media narratives is the only reason LeBron is blamed for this shyt.

 

[NYC Rebel]

The way some of these dudes talk about teammates “saving them” you would think the opening tip off started with two minutes left in the game. NEVER MIND the work a superstar put in throughout the other 46 minutes to make it a game in the first place.

i hate the thought process of most NBA fans. For much of them, they value the made for TV game ending moment more than the actual work put throughout a game.

just trash

 

[Blurneed]

U are dismissing LeBron as bully ball and that’s horse shyt

It’s also not about longevity LeBron’s 2010 highlights>>nikkas careers

Having a nationally televised decision was new teaming up with other players was not new. Signing to a different team wasn’t new. Requesting a trade to a better team wasn’t new. Forcing yourself to a better market for marketing/endorsements and better weather wasn’t new. And at the time Boston had a monopoly on the East with 4 All-Stars in their starting 5. LeBron, Wade, Bosh ran on one man teams and they had planned this for years. The way LeBron went about it and media narratives is the only reason LeBron is blamed for this shyt.

It was new for the best player in the world to leave his team and go to play with a player of Wade's caliber and Bosh to a lesser extent. It was enough for the legends to comment, it was unprecedented for it's time. It's not the same as Boston clearly those guys were much closer to the end of their primes, nobody called them the best in the world at the time, nobody made Jordan comparisons with anybody in Boston....interestingly enough those 4 all stars lost to Kobes Lakers but that's a whole different discussion that would lead to derailment.

And Lebron's game overall isn't just bully ball. I acknowledge his court vision and passing is A1,his best skill and is an all time great in that aspect. He just dont have a go to move offensively, other than the shoulder block or stiff arm despite already being much stronger and faster than the nikka guarding him already....it is effective no doubt, I just prefer MJs well rounded offense alot more.

 

[ISO]

It was new for the best player in the world to leave his team and go to play with a player of Wade's caliber and Bosh to a lesser extent. It was enough for the legends to comment, it was unprecedented for it's time. It's not the same as Boston clearly those guys were much closer to the end of their primes, nobody called them the best in the world at the time, nobody made Jordan comparisons with anybody in Boston....interestingly enough those 4 all stars lost to Kobes Lakers but that's a whole different discussion that would lead to derailment.

And Lebron's game overall isn't just bully ball. I acknowledge his court vision and passing is A1,his best skill and is an all time great in that aspect. He just dont have a go to move offensively, other than the shoulder block or stiff arm despite already being much stronger and faster than the nikka guarding him already....it is effective no doubt, I just prefer MJs well rounded offense alot more.

It doesn’t matter how old they were. They had it on lock and were all productive with Rondo coming up. KG don’t get injured in ‘09 they look at 3 straight Finals. They had 2-3 years left as contenders. Kobe had a great squad with a HoF coach, All-Star running mate, and strong veteran role players and it was a slug fest of a 7 game series. I can’t blame LeBron for creating his own Big 3 and I can’t blame him for not continuing to waste his prime in Cleveland. He gets criticized on how he went about it and the fact he left his hometown team. How he stacked the deck and took the “easy” way. Every dynasty had multiple HoF players and All-Stars. Every single one. U think MJ is sticking around in Chicago if Pippen and Grant don’t emerge? C’mon son.

LeBron skillset way more than bullying his way to the basket he’s scored in every way imaginable. But go off.

 

[etrofllenrod504]

Without Ray Allen hes 2-7

Without having an epic collapse by the Warriors hes 1-8

basketball is a team game dominated by its top 2-3 players,those numbers will not put him over Jordan in most discussions.

Without Pippen and Phil how many playoff wins Mike got?

 

[Remote]

It doesn’t matter how old they were. They had it on lock and were all productive with Rondo coming up. KG don’t get injured in ‘09 they look at 3 straight Finals. They had 2-3 years left as contenders. Kobe had a great squad with a HoF coach, All-Star running mate, and strong veteran role players and it was a slug fest of a 7 game series. I can’t blame LeBron for creating his own Big 3 and I can’t blame him for not continuing to waste his prime in Cleveland. He gets criticized on how he went about it and the fact he left his hometown team. How he stacked the deck and took the “easy” way. Every dynasty had multiple HoF players and All-Stars. Every single one. U think MJ is sticking around in Chicago if Pippen and Grant don’t emerge? C’mon son.

LeBron skillset way more than bullying his way to the basket he’s scored in every way imaginable. But go off.

Everyone who hates the "super team" in Miami...they never say what Lebron should have done.

They don't want to say he should have stayed in Cleveland because they know it wasn't a sustainable situation.
Hell, go look at my Larry Fitzgerald thread. You have people in there saying they feel no pity for Larry staying in Arizona, even though they believe it hurt his legacy as a WR. The same could be said had Lebron stayed in Cleveland. He would have been treading water. No difference-making teammate was going to end up there.

So really, what were the options?
Stay in Cleveland and rot.
Go to Chicago.
Go to New York.
Literally every other viable contending team would have been labeled a super team.

It really just seems like people were mad Lebron didn't choose them

 

[ISO]

Everyone who hates the "super team" in Miami...they never say what Lebron should have done.

They don't want to say he should have stayed in Cleveland because they know it wasn't a sustainable situation.
Hell, go look at my Larry Fitzgerald thread. You have people in there saying they feel no pity for Larry staying in Arizona, even though they believe it hurt his legacy as a WR. The same could be said had Lebron stayed in Cleveland. He would have been treading water. No difference-making teammate was going to end up there.

So really, what were the options?
Stay in Cleveland and rot.
Go to Chicago.
Go to New York.
Literally every other viable contending team would have been labeled a super team.

It really just seems like people were mad Lebron didn't choose them

Exactly. I’m a Knicks fan we were lobbying hard for LeBron.

We had cleared cap space to bring in 2-3 max free agents. We ended up only landing Amar’e and then traded for Carmelo. Our intention was to create a “superteam”.

Chicago planned to add hometown D-Wade and LeBron on top of the up and coming D-Rose.

Nobody was going to Cleveland.

Teams planned to create dynamic duos and Big 3’s and “superteams”. The point is to win.

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Without Pippen and Phil how many playoff wins Mike got?

Pip came in 87 and rode the bench that year.
Phil became head coach in 89.

So I'm not sure why you're tying the 2 together as if they came in together and all of a sudden Jordan started winning playoff games.

 

[Remote]

Exactly. I’m a Knicks fan we were lobbying hard for LeBron.

We had cleared cap space to bring in 2-3 max free agents. We ended up only landing Amar’e and then traded for Carmelo. Our intention was to create a “superteam”.

Chicago planned to add hometown D-Wade and LeBron on top of the up and coming D-Rose.

Nobody was going to Cleveland.

Teams planned to create dynamic duos and Big 3’s and “superteams”. The point is to win.

People are acting like XYZ player would never have joined another star on another team. Many retired players even say this now to criticize today's players.

But how could they know unless they are presented with that situation? How could they know unless the landscape of the league was such that you essentially needed that kind of depth to win?

The casual fan is obsessed with ring count. And the media does its best to drill in the perceived importance of it. So generations are raised believing that's all that matters.
And we're supposed to be surprised that players will do anything in their power to increase their odds of getting those rings? Elite athletes at the top of their game....some of the most competitive people on earth?

Let's keep it 100 here...

 

[Primetime]

U watched compilations of fouls and overdramatized clips not actual games. The Pistons were dirty but it’s made to seem like MJ couldn’t do shyt without getting shanked.

The Celtics would foul LeBron hard he would routinely get 10+ FTA and would be walled off in a zone seeing not just multiple double and triple teams but roaming help defenders or what would be illegal defenses in Mike’s era.

The Celtics teams LeBron beat in ‘11 and ‘12 were better than the ‘91 Pistons that MJ beat. Isiah Thomas wrist injury in ‘91 ended his prime he was washed at that point. The Celtics defenses were better than the Pistons defenses and it was a different, lower paced era than that late 80’s era.

i hate arguing with dudes who watch compilation videos. They arent watching the 12 hours worth of full games we watched in real time.
It be tne same dudes who think every 90s NBA game was a street fight.

shyt is so see through

This is THE example of that too. Every single one of the guys that posts that shyt is under 40 and wasn't seeing none of that in real time. Pistons would foul a lot but those reckless fouls didn't even happen once a game, they talk like that was an everyday occurrence. They ain't even ever seen a normal regular season game from that era beginning to end, they just watch NBA classics and assume every game went that way.

I kinda wonder where it stems from. Why do these 17 to mid-20s year-olds be so obsessed with over-dramatizing past events they weren't alive to witness? Maybe it's because of these older retired players that they see as "objective" history teachers when really they're just the stereotypical drunken uncle with half-baked tall tales about "back in my day.." shyt.

"The nba today is soft with players flopping and trying to bait the refs instead of playing the game the right way..."


as if Rodman, Danny Ainge, and Divac weren't flopping like fukking fishes 25-30 years ago. Horry, Ginobli, Fisher, etc. 15-20 years ago. Reggie Miller flopping on 3s before Harden. Duncan doing that swing through bullshyt to bait the officials before Harden and Durant were in the league. Baron Davis was doin that Chris Paul shyt before Chris Paul lol.

But shyt, 10 years from now these born in 2010 nyggas really gon think Chris Webber was better than Tim Duncan tho because a 60 year-old shaq still gon be running his mouth on TNT