Back during ancient times, who had more power and influence?

[BlackMagnus514]

Popes. You can easily guilt trip someone with religion and trick them into giving you land and wealth.

 

[YaThreadFloppedB!]

I love the Crusades history

 

[Dave24]

I love the Crusades history

Why? I dont know shyt about it

 

[YaThreadFloppedB!]

Why? I dont know shyt about it

I think for me, it’s just an interesting period. The 2 major religions fighting over this (mainly) one single city.

a lot of Orders were formed doing this time too but chiefly among them were the Knights Templar

After the crusades were over, the majority of the Knights Templar settled in France and they grew powerful. A French king (I forgot which) was heavily indebted to this order. On a Friday the 13th he sent his army out to gather up these knights and he tortured them and got many of them to confess that they were practicing witchcraft and things against the Catholic church. Many today doubt that they were practicing witchcraft but if someone is torturing you, you’ll say whatever they want you to in order to get them to stop, and so the French king found an expedient way to erase his debt.

Once he got the confessions he burned them at the stake. Til this day Friday the 13th is associated with bad luck because of what happen to the Templars

 

[Dave24]

I think for me, it’s just an interesting period. The 2 major religions fighting over this (mainly) one single city.

a lot of Orders were formed doing this time too but chiefly among them were the Knights Templar

After the crusades were over, the majority of the Knights Templar settled in France and they grew powerful. A French king (I forgot which) was heavily indebted to this order. On a Friday the 13th he sent his army out to gather up these knights and he tortured them and got many of them to confess that they were practicing witchcraft and things against the Catholic church.

Once he got the confessions he burned them at the stake. Til this day Friday the 13th is associated with bad luck because of what happen to the Templars

Wow that sounds interesting!

 

[BlackDiBiase]

i voted kings because up until Henry the VIII the pope had the total power and control over all the lands but when he didnt grant Henry a divorce Henry made the COE and told the pope its game over. pope hasnt been a fraction of the same power ever since

+ king musa of mali is another classic tale of royal excellence.

 

[Dave24]

i voted kings because up until Henry the VIII the pope had the total power and control over all the lands but when he didnt grant Henry a divorce Henry made the COE and told the pope its game over. pope hasnt been a fraction of the same power ever since

+ king musa of mali is another classic tale of royal excellence.

Do you think the pope/papacy will ever regain the power they lost?

 

[BlackDiBiase]

Do you think the pope/papacy will ever regain the power they lost?

im not sure.

i think they still hold a poetic power and that's about it, the UN the G8 all those allegiances don't respect the popes authority.

but in times of crisis like these we will see how revered the pope is, when he gave deontay-wilder that honorary ambassador for peace title that was big news.

but the whole papal as a whole have been caught up in too many shameful things to ever regain glory.

the USA president is the most powerful man on the planet and his cabinet but once again i think its bordering on poetic power.

shyt aint real, we bout to find out though.

 

[TooLazyToMakeUp1]

Popes are the only ones still out here calling shots

 

[010101]

you can google who had the largest army & controlled the largest territory*

 

[Sukairain]

The Great Khan of the Mongols, whoever that was at any particular time.

You just need to read the letters they sent to Christian and Muslim emperors, kings, and religious leaders.

Like this one to the Pope in 1246. The Pope wrote Guyuk Khan, the newly elected Great Khan of the Mongols, asking him if he would please stop attacking Christian lands, ravaging them utterly and killing all the civilians. He also asked for Guyuk to get baptized and come to Rome and accept the Pope's divine authority over humanity.

Guyuk replied:

If bearer of this petition reaches you with his own report, you, who are the great Pope, together with all the Princes, must come in person to serve us. At that time, I shall make known all the commands of the Yasa.

Further, you have also said that there would be an advantage for me in accepting baptism. You have imparted this to me, and sent a request to this effect. This your appeal, I have not understood.

Furthermore, you have sent the following message: “You have conquered all the lands of the Hungarians and other Christians. This seems strange to me. Tell me what was their crime?” I have also not understood this message of yours. Chinggis Khan and the Great Khan Ögedey have both transmitted the order of the Eternal God that all the world should be subordinated to the Mongols. But they disregarded God’s order to such an extent that those mentioned by you even held a great council, and they behaved arrogantly in refusing, and they killed our messengers and envoys. Thus the Eternal God Himself has killed and exterminated the people in those countries. How could anybody, without God’s order, merely from his own strength, kill and plunder? And when you go on to say, “I am a Christian, I honor God.” How do you think you know whom God will absolve and in whose favor He will exercise His mercy? How do you think you know that you dare to express such an opinion?

Through the power of God, all empires from the rising of the sun to its setting have been given to us and we own them. How could anyone achieve anything except by God’s order? Now, however, you must say with a sincere heart: “We shall be obedient, we, too, make our strength available. You personally, at the head of the Kings, you shall come, one and all, to pay homage to me and to serve me. Then we shall take note of your submission. If, however, you do not accept God’s order and act against our command, we shall know that you are our enemies.

This is what we make known to you. If you act against it, how then can we know what will happen? Only God knows.

Nobody else ever had the balls to speak to a Pope like that

 

[Sukairain]

And here's a letter sent by Hulagu Khan to the Caliph of Baghdad in 1257. The Caliph claimed a Pope-like authority over all Muslims. It's not quite the same as being a pope, Islam is different. But basically this guy was the biggest fish in the Muslim world, and the Mongols said to him:

At the time of the conquest of the castles of the Heretics, we sent envoys to you seeking for reinforcements. You replied that you were our subordinate, yet you did not send troops. The sign of subordination and concord is that you send troops when we ride against the enemy, but you did not do so and sent only excuses. Even though your family is august and venerable and your House has experienced rule and fortune, could the Moon have shone so brightly that it eclipsed the blazing Sun?

Surely by now you have heard from both commons and nobles what has befallen the world and its inhabitants from the time of Genghis Khan up to now, and what humiliation was visited upon great houses such as the Khwarazmshahs, the Seljuqs, the kings of Daylam, the Atabaks, and others through the power of the Everlasting Eternal God. The gates of Baghdad were never closed to any one of those groups, and they all had seats of power there. With all our strength and might, how can they be closed to us?

Previously we have advised you, and we do so again now: refrain from rancour and obstinacy, do not attempt what is impossible nor ignore what is manifest, for you will only succeed in hurting yourself. In any case, let bygones be bygones. Now, destroy your walls and fill in your moats; entrust the rule to your son, and come to us in person. Should you not wish to come yourself, send the Minister, Sulayman Shah, and the Marshal—all three—so that they might deliver our message to you verbatim.

Indeed, when our order is obeyed, it will not be necessary to exact retribution and you shall retain your land, army, and subjects. If you do not heed our advice and intend to oppose and resist us, ready your army and choose the battlefield, for we are prepared and girded for battle. When I lead my army against Baghdad in fury, whether you hide in the heavens or on earth:

I will bring you down from the spinning spheres;
I will toss you in the air like a lion.
I will leave no one alive in your realm;
I will burn your cities and put your country to the torch.

If you wish to spare yourself and your venerable family, listen to my advice with the ear of intelligence. If you do not, let us see what God has willed.

I love the threatening tone of these letters but it goes to show you who was really the boss. Caliphs and Popes weren't shyt. Yeah they could boss Muslim and Christian monarchs around, but if they ran into somebody who was more powerful than all the Christian and Muslim world combined - the Mongols - then Pope and Caliph had to be on their

 

[HabitualChiller]

First off, you need to state what you mean by ancient times. That's such a broad term that could mean anything. The 1500's could be considered ancient time.

Second, in what region? The Pope had/has no pull over in Asia. Ghengis Khan is one of the 10 most powerful people in history (not counting U.S. presidents), so him being an emperor, he would surely be your answer.

Edit: According to The Merriam-Webster dictionary, the first known use of the phrase "ancient times" was in 1555, so, for arguments sake, I'll say that anything before that could be considered it. In that case, and in terms of positional power and influence, the title of pope would be your answer.

Remember, not every emperor was fukking with Genghis Khan and his successors, but the pope was powerful as fukk since the 6th century.

Edit again: I'm wrong as fukk. Any time before 1555, so that means ancient Rome, Egypt, and such. The answer would be emperor.

3rd Edit: Holy fukk, I suck. By definition, an emperor/empress is one that rules an empire dolo. Therefore, Egyptian rulers wouldn't be so because it was a king and queen that had power (in most cases, I believe.)

 

[Dave24]

First off, you need to state what you mean by ancient times. That's such a broad term that could mean anything. The 1500's could be considered ancient time.

Second, in what region? The Pope had/has no pull over in Asia. Ghengis Khan is one of the 10 most powerful people in history (not counting U.S. presidents), so him being an emperor, he would surely be your answer.

Good points breh didnt really think of it like that.

 

[HabitualChiller]

Good points breh didnt really think of it like that.

I edited my answer. Thanks btw.