atlantic slave trade never happened

The atlantic slave trade

  • Its possible black populations existed in the "new world" prior to Columbus

    Votes: 41 77.4%
  • All blacks came on slave ships straight from west africa

    Votes: 12 22.6%

  • Total voters
    53

Spade

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I'm trying to tell you that Black people have been in the Americas WAY before any European has stepped foot on this continent. Ever read A voyage to Senegal? Here is one of the quotes "The Blacks are a kind of man destined to by Nature to inhabit Africa and America; she has created them for burning regions: let us, therefore take care not to oppose her views, or overthrow the barriers, which she has established, but let us preserve the races in their natural purity, and not permit the Negroes to inhabit Europe. Yes, they were black. They saw black people here when they arrived. They described black people when they came here. They drew black people when they found them there.

As far as Melanesians and Papua New Guineans, I will say again, many of us look just like them. In fact, a damn good bit of us do. If you set some of the people from East Timor, Christmas Islands, New Caledonia, in the hoods in America, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. And that also was noticed by Europeans talking about Melanesian Negroes and American Negroes.

I haven't personally seen a document. I was just taught this in school that this was what occurred. Until I can see it with my eyes, I will have to ask questions about it. I'm not saying I don't believe it. I simply do not know. But I still find it hard for them to grab 12 million Africans and transplant them thousands of miles across open water to the Americas. Even South America is more than 2000 miles from Africa and from my readings, it took on average 8-13 weeks just to cross the Atlantic even to Brazil.

As far as Jamaica. I don't know about Jamaica and their history like that. I just stick to North America as this is where I'm at. But who produced the figure that there were less than 20k people on the island at the turn of the 17th century?
 

Dominoes

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Africans existed in the Americas before slavery, and Europeans brought slaves over from Africa. Why is it so hard to accept that both transpired? Similar to rival African tribes enslaving one another, compared to Europeans enslaving any Africans they could. All of it happened, the real question is to what extent.

If you haven't read "They Came Before Columbus" by Ivan Van Sertima, I suggest you do; it's a quick google search away. And before anyone brings up the Olmec heads, Van Sertima said that Africans came over and mixed with the Natives, not that Africans themselves we're the only Natives. Van Sertima has non-Olmec evidence starting at page 182 but I suggest reading the whole thing. Oh and not that it should matter, but Van Sertima is mixed Native and African himself.

One thing to consider is that this book was released during a time when we used outdated and sometimes racists terms to define different groups of people; but it's not that difficult to read between the lines
 

Dominoes

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The fukked up thing about all of this is most of the Black naysayers wouldn't have as much doubt if we we're talking about the Vikings and Chinese coming to the Americas before 1492:mjpls:; but they'd be quick to :whoa: at the thought of the original people from the Motherland making it over.



Thousands of years ago Africans we're mapping out the stars and planets, building the Pyramids and Sphinx, developing spiritual systems, mathematics, and producing all the other history we try to reclaim from non-Africans; yet we lose all common sense and logic when it comes to Africans doing anything outside of the continent.
Common brehs, we're better than this





If you can read between the lines, and sift through the outdated racist terms to describe the different groups, this will shed some light.


To be clear, I am not saying that the Atlantic slave trade never happened.
I believe it did, but there's so much more to the story and it's dangerous to assume that our conquerors would give us the truth. Look what they tried to do with Egypt, and what they've already done with the Levant and Yemen. shyt, they don't even give they're own "race" the truth, yet we eat up their stories without stepping back and really thinking:jbhmm:






Don't even get me started on Abu Bakr of the Malian/West African Empire, or how the west African scholars we're persecuted while many of the books we're purposely destroyed:to:... or hidden:mjpls:
 

VegasCAC

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Africans existed in the Americas before slavery, and Europeans brought slaves over from Africa. Why is it so hard to accept that both transpired? Similar to rival African tribes enslaving one another, compared to Europeans enslaving any Africans they could. All of it happened, the real question is to what extent.

If you haven't read "They Came Before Columbus" by Ivan Van Sertima, I suggest you do; it's a quick google search away. And before anyone brings up the Olmec heads, Van Sertima said that Africans came over and mixed with the Natives, not that Africans themselves we're the only Natives. Van Sertima has non-Olmec evidence starting at page 182 but I suggest reading the whole thing. Oh and not that it should matter, but Van Sertima is mixed Native and African himself.

One thing to consider is that this book was released during a time when we used outdated and sometimes racists terms to define different groups of people; but it's not that difficult to read between the lines

See:

Pseudohistory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read:

Printed Matter -- Clarence E. Walker -- Page

Author:

Clarence Walker — Department of History


Peer reviewed article:

They Were NOT Here before Columbus: Afrocentric Hyperdiffusionism in the 1990s on JSTOR







Stop.
 

Dominoes

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Creh, I get it. African's we're so stupid that they needed non-Black people to show them the world. I know plenty of Black people that think like that.
Now have you yourself read the book?
Creh, I just read that Mr. Walker doesn't believe the ancient Egyptians we're Black:wow:. How can I... I just don't know where to...

Did you even read what I said about West Africans?


Can you either read what I've provided or at least watch this lecture? Or can you point to an actual counter argument outside of the played out "afrocentrist" angle? How is your grasp of history, and which scholars do you recommend? I'm open-minded and far from an Afrocentrist. I just see through the bullshyt.

 

Dominoes

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@VegasCAC

I'll make it easy, skip to 38:30 of Akala's address, then watch the whole thing. If you don't have the time or interest, then please drop the Afro-centrist card because it only tells me and the rest of the African and Black people on this site that your main interest isn't in finding the truth, but instead keeping white supremacist tactics alive, and ignoring the evidence:yeshrug:
 

VegasCAC

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Creh, I get it. African's we're so stupid that they needed non-Black people to show them the world. I know plenty of Black people that think like that.
Now have you yourself read the book?
Creh, I just read that Mr. Walker doesn't believe the ancient Egyptians we're Black:wow:. How can I... I just don't know where to...

Did you even read what I said about West Africans?


Can you either read what I've provided or at least watch this lecture? Or can you point to an actual counter argument outside of the played out "afrocentrist" angle? How is your grasp of history, and which scholars do you recommend? I'm open-minded and far from an Afrocentrist. I just see through the bullshyt.



I don't agree with all of Dr. Walker's positions (some Egyptians were certainly black), but his point that it shouldn't matter it true (Egyptians had no conception of race as we understand it). His attack isn't on the existence of Afro-centrism, it's the fact that oftentimes Afrocentric scholarship denies historical fact.

The guy in the video mischaracterizes criticism of his book, as the author did often throughout his career. His book was universally rejected by MesoAmerican scholars. I'd encourage you to read the JSTOR article (if you can't access it I have a subscription and can PM you the text). They debate the evidence more articulately than I ever could.

In the video he does make several good points (along with being a very engaging speaker who gave a great narrative on Haiti), especially about Wilbur Wilberforce and freeing the slaves. I'd recommend reading Moral Capital by Chris Brown at Columbia if you want to know why English abolitionists were for freeing slavery (hint: it wasn't out of the goodness of their own hearts as we are often taught)

Christopher Brown - Faculty - Department of History - Columbia University

Also, his point about learning more about Henry VIII than massacres and slave revolts is ABSOLUTELY true. It's ridiculous, and I agree with him, and his people, centered, global approach to teaching that he proposed is inspiring. He is absolutely correct. History is absolutely whitewashed and its absolutely bullshyt. World history should be taught, and people of color need to be included.

But (and this is important) we need to remember that we need to stay within the REALM OF FACT. This means that we need to evaluate evidence as it exists, and not get carried away, because if you do that, logical people no longer take you seriously. Here is where he messes up. He is so eager to assign agency and importance to certain people groups that he makes huge leaps and picks and chooses certain strands of evidence out of context to bolster his argument. Here is another article discussing Van Sertima's book that discusses this published by an accredited historical journal by three professors. Hell, just by reading the first paragraph on the preview you begin to get an idea.

Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the Olmecs on JSTOR


First, no genuine article African artifact has been found in a controlled archeological excavation in the New World.
Keep reading from there.


Ultimately, his heart is in the right place and he obviously is an intelligent guy. But his agenda, in my opinion, is blinding him to practicing history correctly.

But let's put it this way: I would MUCH rather have a guy who errs on the side of Afro-centricity than the opposite : a historian who constructs narratives that bolster white supremacy. Both are wrong and need to be addressed, but one is much more harmful.
 

*Angel*

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Why do native americans not look like us anymore ?

I agree with most of this but cant get that down
The dark skinned Black Indians were killed by Cacs, but they kept the light skinned children they had with them. Today's Indians are a mixed breed of the original Black Indians, CAC, and Cac-Asian. They look nothing like us bc their bloodline has been diluted with CAC blood.

Original California Indians were South African and Black Asian mixed.

diane5.jpg


diane7.jpg


diane3.jpg
 
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If ever the truth comes out and is accepted, if all of this is ever true, these cacs better receive their deserved comeuppance. I mean if this is true, then what was school and books good for? Entire centuries of people would have been lied to.
 

Dominoes

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I don't agree with all of Dr. Walker's positions (some Egyptians were certainly black), but his point that it shouldn't matter it true (Egyptians had no conception of race as we understand it). His attack isn't on the existence of Afro-centrism, it's the fact that oftentimes Afrocentric scholarship denies historical fact.

Ok let's get this out the way because I see you slipped that 'some' in there. Ancient Egyptians (the pyramid builders, mathematicians, spiritual leaders, chemists, doctors, rulers, etc) we're Black Africans from the south and west of the continent up until the Hyksos invasion. That's at least 2000 years and I'm being very conservative with the 2000 years. And it does matter in today's times because our schools and media are still white-washing or arabizing the ancient Egyptians. If race and skin tone doesn't matter, why do they go so hard to avoid and cover it up?
And historical fact? You realize that if men like Hitler had succeeded (word to Columbus, the Catholic church, and the Spanish, and British), 'historical fact' today would look a lot different. Basically, western European leaders won that war so we've been programmed to accept their version of history as fact. I bet if I claimed that books we're destroyed, scholars we're persecuted, and history altered, you would tell me that I need to provide the evidence, correct? Well if I'm in a war and using race and propaganda among other things as a tool, don't you think I'd make sure the knowledge is destroyed or at least hidden? Don't you think I'd demonize the very people I stole, and am stealing from? Don't you think I'd want to eliminate any chance of them producing more African minded warriors and scholars? I use logic and common sense. Facts can be misconstrued and interpreted in many ways.

The guy in the video mischaracterizes criticism of his book, as the author did often throughout his career. His book was universally rejected by MesoAmerican scholars. I'd encourage you to read the JSTOR article (if you can't access it I have a subscription and can PM you the text). They debate the evidence more articulately than I ever could.

I'm in the middle of reading it and will get back to it after this.
But ok let's get this straight; MesoAmerican scholars reject a half Native, half African scholar, but African scholars studying Africa aren't rewarded with the same benefit when it comes to African studies:jbhmm:. You see how deep the programming goes?


In the video he does make several good points (along with being a very engaging speaker who gave a great narrative on Haiti), especially about Wilbur Wilberforce and freeing the slaves. I'd recommend reading Moral Capital by Chris Brown at Columbia if you want to know why English abolitionists were for freeing slavery (hint: it wasn't out of the goodness of their own hearts as we are often taught)

Christopher Brown - Faculty - Department of History - Columbia University

Also, his point about learning more about Henry VIII than massacres and slave revolts is ABSOLUTELY true. It's ridiculous, and I agree with him, and his people, centered, global approach to teaching that he proposed is inspiring. He is absolutely correct. History is absolutely whitewashed and its absolutely bullshyt. World history should be taught, and people of color need to be included.

African history is world history imo. It just depends on when the interpreter wants to make the separation and say "ok the people that left the continent are African up until (insert date or time period).
Also, these so-called people of color will deny their African heritage in one breath, then try to ride the wave of Black progress the next. I told you I see through the bullshyt
:mjpls:.


But (and this is important) we need to remember that we need to stay within the REALM OF FACT. This means that we need to evaluate evidence as it exists, and not get carried away, because if you do that, logical people no longer take you seriously. Here is where he messes up. He is so eager to assign agency and importance to certain people groups that he makes huge leaps and picks and chooses certain strands of evidence out of context to bolster his argument. Here is another article discussing Van Sertima's book that discusses this published by an accredited historical journal by three professors. Hell, just by reading the first paragraph on the preview you begin to get an idea.

I understand what you're saying. I really do. But my question then is who is logical and who's facts are more validated? And why should I, a descendant of the Atlantic slave trade trust in this realm with their so-called facts on these topics? The same logical people that lied to African Americans about a medical study and instead gave them Syphilis? Or the ones that told white people that Black people become oversexed crazed animals if they smoked weed? The same ones that pretended to believe that an unarmed teenager had super-negro strength and needed to be put down by police? I can literally go on for hours.
No, I'm not saying that all white people are liars and that your elite minds haven't done some good things for humanity. I'm not saying that Africans we're all living in peace and harmony until the white man came and got us. I'm saying how can I fully trust the elites of a people that doesn't even want to give us what we're owed for our ancestors work and suffering, let alone acknowledge, and properly represent our portion of history?


Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the Olmecs on JSTOR

Keep reading from there.


Ultimately, his heart is in the right place and he obviously is an intelligent guy. But his agenda, in my opinion, is blinding him to practicing history correctly.

But let's put it this way: I would MUCH rather have a guy who errs on the side of Afro-centricity than the opposite : a historian who constructs narratives that bolster white supremacy. Both are wrong and need to be addressed, but one is much more harmful.

Ivan Van Sertima is part Native himself, but that seems to be conveniently skipped over. He isn't robbing anything; in fact European and Anglo-American leaders already did that, and convinced good natured white folk like yourself that it wasn't as bad as it seems, and our reaction as Africans and African descendants is based on some need to feel important or included in world history.
Nah creh, it goes waaaay deeper than that.
 
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