At this point, its getting hard to deny LeBron is the best to ever pickup a Basketball

[Conan]

Anyone saying he isn't the greatest ever is just an established and rooted hater. It is what it is...

Thru 13 seasons, like Mike's Chicago career, was 2016. He's been the greatest of all time since then...

15 total years like Mike was 2018. Nighas be like "longevity is irrelevant", nikka he was the GOAT before all this added time. Bron coulda retired in '16, '17, or '18 and it was already established in my eyes...

as I've said aplenty, what he's done since then, is just created separation...

Mike could played longer, he didn't want to. We not penalizing no one for being greater at a later stage than Mike was, fukk outta here. And if Mike would've played longer he wouldn't have looked like this...

There was bound to be someone to come along greater than Mike, and there's bound to be someone to come along greater than LeBron. This bar is super fukking high, though. This nikka still in his prime. Longest prime ever, arguably highest peak ever, arguably most dominant player ever, arguably greatest postseason player ever...

It's a high bar. The person who challenges that on an All-Time scale is gonna be mind-blowing...

Greatness isn't solely about accomplishments, it's about the narrative. And what you have to realize is that MJ's story is unbeatable, so much so that for a certain demographic that grew up on MJ, you're NEVER proving that LeBron is greater, to them. You gon have to wait until they die out

I say that without having a dog in the fight, and recognizing that LeBron has a valid case for being recognized as the greatest player of all time. There won't be universal consensus on that until enough people die, for other valid reasons.

 

[In The Zone '98]

Two 3peats

 

[Rell84shots]

isnt it all kinda relative? does MJ have 2 3peats if he gets drafted by the cavs in 2003?

He was drafted by the Bulls who were god awful and a complete joke in the league.

 

[Rell84shots]

Anyone saying he isn't the greatest ever is just an established and rooted hater. It is what it is...

Thru 13 seasons, like Mike's Chicago career, was 2016. He's been the greatest of all time since then...

15 total years like Mike was 2018. Nighas be like "longevity is irrelevant", nikka he was the GOAT before all this added time. Bron coulda retired in '16, '17, or '18 and it was already established in my eyes...

as I've said aplenty, what he's done since then, is just created separation...

Mike could played longer, he didn't want to. We not penalizing no one for being greater at a later stage than Mike was, fukk outta here. And if Mike would've played longer he wouldn't have looked like this...

There was bound to be someone to come along greater than Mike, and there's bound to be someone to come along greater than LeBron. This bar is super fukking high, though. This nikka still in his prime. Longest prime ever, arguably highest peak ever, arguably most dominant player ever, arguably greatest postseason player ever...

It's a high bar. The person who challenges that on an All-Time scale is gonna be mind-blowing...

Hypotheticals are the sign of a weak argument. The 2011 finals will always keep him from being the GOAT in mine and plenty of other people's eyes.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

If he’s the better player how comes he ain’t win as much or dominate his era like MJ did his?

Why didn't MJ dominate his era as much as Bron from 1983 to 1990? Funny how the "domination" only took place under certain team conditions, eh?


Imagine what LeBron would have done playing in an expansion era that was so diluted after adding 6 teams in 6 years that they had to move the 3pt line in.

Imagine what LeBron would have done with costars that stayed healthy every season.

Imagine what LeBron would have done against illegal defense rules when teams weren't allowed to hedge into his driving and passing lanes.



Remember, Jordan for his entire run had an MVP candidate as his #2 in Pippen, a borderline all-star level #3 option in Grant/Rodman, deep squads and one of the GOAT coaches. Who did he face?


Magic's #2 was an injured Worthy who couldn't even finish the series, #3 was rookie Divac and coach was Mike Dunleavy
Drexler's #2 was Terry Porter, #3 was Jerome Kersey and coach was Rick Adelman
Barkley's #2 was Kevin Johnson, probably the best #2 any MJ opponent had. But their defense was horrid and 1st-year coach Paul Westphal did nothing to adjust all series.
Seattle's #1a/1b were Payton and Kemp, neither of them averaged even 20ppg. And the team had zero depth and George Karl fukking up as coach
Malone's #2 was 36yo John Stockton averaging 11ppg.

If you don't think LeBron would have smashed a man defense against every one of those teams, especially playing with Pippen/Grant or Pippen/Rodman and shooters....

 

[Blurneed]

At this point, the GOAT converstation has been over with the consensus being MJ. But great news tho, Lebron has officially established himself as the G.O.N.A.T. Greatest Old nikka of All Time. Most certainly the best player ever for players 36+. Longevity stats gonna be remarkable when it's all said and done

 

[Professor Emeritus]

He was drafted by the Bulls who were god awful and a complete joke in the league.

Which is why the Bulls got 6 picks in the top-11 over the next five years, which they flipped into Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, B.J. Armstrong, and Will Purdue. Plus lucking into Toni Kukoc in the 2nd round.

Three straight 1st-round sweeps and the random draft pick fukkery that used to occur in the 1980s is the recipe for a quick come-up.



Cavs were a joke too, but LeBron made them too good too fast. They only got ONE lottery pick during Bron's entire tenure, which they wasted on Luke Jackson. In fact, their 2nd highest pick in his entire Cleveland career was J.J. Hickson at #19.

 

[Reggie]

It's been a legit argument for years now. Grew up on Mike. Followed Bron since he was in high school. My personal opinion is STILL Mike but 10-15 years from now kids are going to look at the numbers and records and might come to a different conclusion. And there will be nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Hypotheticals are the sign of a weak argument.

Lack of understanding of context is actual sign of a weak argument. WYSIATI is one of the classic cognitive fallacies that comes from not being able to consider hypotheticals.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lost everything there is to lose also.

Every player who has ever picked up a basketball has lost everything there is to lose. Do you think other guys gets credit for not advancing?

 

[Elim Garak]

Every player who has ever picked up a basketball has lost everything there is to lose. Do you think other guys gets credit for not advancing?

I don't recall Jordan losing a Finals series.

 

[murksiderock]

Greatness isn't solely about accomplishments, it's about the narrative. And what you have to realize is that MJ's story is unbeatable, so much so that for a certain demographic that grew up on MJ, you're NEVER proving that LeBron is greater, to them. You gon have to wait until they die out

I say that without having a dog in the fight, and recognizing that LeBron has a valid case for being recognized as the greatest player of all time. There won't be universal consensus on that until enough people die, for other valid reasons.

I've always said the strongest argument for Mike over Bron is the 2011 Finals never happened to Mike, and I maintain its the singular strongest argument for Mike over Bron. Its a fair counter...

For me, the total body of work for Bron overcomes that. I dont believe Mike was a better total basketball player. I don't believe Mike was a better defensive player, I don't believe he played superior competition. I do believe he was a superior scorer but I think the gap isn't as substantial as people let on and I think it's the only basketball measurable he has over Bron...

Bron was the greater floor raiser, and played in a more competitive era with significantly greater players across the board, in the same way i feel like Mike's NBA was more competitive with better across the board players than Russell's. But I dont hear people say, "well Russell won 11, cant be worse than a guy like Mike with fewer rings". We dont say that shyt...

I have no hypotheticals, and I dont have an issue with people who favor Mike. The reasoning behind why they favor Mike is often weak, but in and of itself, of course Mike has a highly credible case as the GOAT. I have zero issue on that at all...

Hypotheticals are the sign of a weak argument. The 2011 finals will always keep him from being the GOAT in mine and plenty of other people's eyes.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I don't recall Jordan losing a Finals series.

Jordan lost in 9 out of 15 seasons in the NBA.

Unless you think only 1 team loses the championship each year, and not 29.


Imagine bragging about losing earlier than someone else did.

 

[Elim Garak]

Jordan lost in 9 out of 15 seasons in the NBA.

Unless you think only 1 team loses the championship each year, and not 29.


Imagine bragging about losing earlier than someone else did.

I still don't recall Jordan losing a finals series. Let me know when LeBron can get to .500 and we can talk.

 

[Conan]

I've always said the strongest argument for Mike over Bron is the 2011 Finals never happened to Mike, and I maintain its the singular strongest argument for Mike over Bron. Its a fair counter...

For me, the total body of work for Bron overcomes that. I dont believe Mike was a better total basketball player. I don't believe Mike was a better defensive player, I don't believe he played superior competition. I do believe he was a superior scorer but I think the gap isn't as substantial as people let on and I think it's the only basketball measurable he has over Bron...

Bron was the greater floor raiser, and played in a more competitive era with significantly greater players across the board, in the same way i feel like Mike's NBA was more competitive with better across the board players than Russell's. But I dont hear people say, "well Russell won 11, cant be worse than a guy like Mike with fewer rings". We dont say that shyt...

I have no hypotheticals, and I dont have an issue with people who favor Mike. The reasoning behind why they favor Mike is often weak, but in and of itself, of course Mike has a highly credible case as the GOAT. I have zero issue on that at all...

Better is different from greatest.

LeBron's case for being the better player over Jordan is stronger because that simply boils down to stats and skillsets.

Greatest? It becomes more subjective. For example. "no losses in the finals". Like someone mentioned, that ignores the other times he didn't make it, and retardedly infers it's better to not make the finals, than make the finals and then lose. But that's canon for many people and it fits into the Jordan greatness narrative. Good luck convincing them otherwise. Add to that LeBrons decision followed by the 2011 loss... That's a death blow (to many).