At this point, its getting hard to deny LeBron is the best to ever pickup a Basketball

[Professor Emeritus]

Do you think Russell is better than MJ?

No, I don't, because I'm consistent, not a ring-counting dumbass.

YOU are the ring-counters, so YOU have to argue why Russell isn't better than Jordan.

Or, even better, please tell me why Jerry West is inferior to John Havlicek. West has a 1-8 Finals record while Havlicek is 7-2, so Havlicek is clearly superior, right?

 

[fifth column]

No, I don't, because I'm consistent, not a ring-counting dumbass.

YOU are the ring-counters, so YOU have to argue why Russell isn't better than Jordan.

Or, even better, please tell me why Jerry West is inferior to John Havlicek. West has a 1-8 Finals record while Havlicek is 7-2, so Havlicek is clearly superior, right?

Do you think Lebron is better than MJ? I don’t know anything about the West/Havlicek straw man debate.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

So when Lebron was running through the weakest east ever with his super teams to 8 straight finals, I guess competition didn’t matter as much then?

Do y'all have a SINGLE argument tactic other than "move the goalposts and change the topic"?

First off, that wasn't the "weakest east ever". Late 1970s and early 2000s were both far weaker. Celtics, Heat, Cavs, and Raptors all won titles, and teams like the Bulls/Pacers who never even made it out of the East would have been East champs easy in the early 2000s.

It's hilarious that you think the 2014 Heat were a "super team", yet you want to claim that the Wade-Bosh-Deng-Dragic-Whiteside Heat who were only 19-25 in the East even before Bosh got hurt were some super weak team.

Second, since we're talking about titles, what's the point of even mentioning the East without mentioning the Finals opponents? Y'all think that making the Finals is a BAD thing unless you win the title, so now you're talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[bigde09]

No, I don't, because I'm consistent, not a ring-counting dumbass.

YOU are the ring-counters, so YOU have to argue why Russell isn't better than Jordan.

Or, even better, please tell me why Jerry West is inferior to John Havlicek. West has a 1-8 Finals record while Havlicek is 7-2, so Havlicek is clearly superior, right?

I never seen this guy say anything good about MJ. That dedication In all seriousness what do you like about Mike? I can give Bron his props and I understand if people feel like he’s goat.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Do you think Lebron is better than MJ?

I think it's impossible to compare, honestly.Their situations were too different.

I don’t know anything about the West/Havlicek straw man debate.

You don't give the impression of knowing a lot about basketball at all. Which should, you know, be something you should work on before declaring yourself an authority in basketball debates.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I never seen this guy say anything good about MJ. That dedication In all seriousness what do you like about Mike?

I think MJ had every skill in the bag other than 3pt shooting as well as a high bball IQ. I think MJ had incredible dedication to the game. I think he absolutely never backed down and never wilted in any moment. I think he did a fantastic job of changing his game over time, so that 1998 MJ was barely even comparable to 1985 MJ, but both were incredible players.

 

[fifth column]

I think it's impossible to compare, honestly.Their situations were too different.





You don't give the impression of knowing a lot about basketball at all. Which should, you know, be something you should work on before declaring yourself an authority in basketball debates.

That’s for the compliment but I’m still gonna be hard on y’all Bron stans with the dungeons and dragons argument that y’all make up

 

[fifth column]

Do y'all have a SINGLE argument tactic other than "move the goalposts and change the topic"?

First off, that wasn't the "weakest east ever". Late 1970s and early 2000s were both far weaker. Celtics, Heat, Cavs, and Raptors all won titles, and teams like the Bulls/Pacers who never even made it out of the East would have been East champs easy in the early 2000s.

It's hilarious that you think the 2014 Heat were a "super team", yet you want to claim that the Wade-Bosh-Deng-Dragic-Whiteside Heat who were only 19-25 in the East even before Bosh got hurt were some super weak team.

Second, since we're talking about titles, what's the point of even mentioning the East without mentioning the Finals opponents? Y'all think that making the Finals is a BAD thing unless you win the title, so now you're talking out both sides of your mouth.

Making the finals is a good thing if your are not good enough as of yet to win it, example Lebron 2007. Proclaiming yourself the goat after losing 6 of 10 finals with hand picked superstar teammates is a delusional thing.

 

[Sccit]

LMAOOOOO

LEBRON IS THE KING OF CONTROLLING NARRATIVES

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY HE TREATED THE IN-SEASON TOURNY LIKE THE NBA FINALS

HE KNEW IT WAS HIS LAST CHANCE TO CREATE A FORCED TALKING POINT FOR THE WEIRDOS WHO LIVE TO BOLSTER HIS LEGECY

PELS AND PACERS.. THATS WHO ELSE WAS TRYN

 

[murksiderock]

I just want to say how dumb this is. Anyone who says Lebron is the 2nd greatest or 3rd is an established and rooted hater?

As someone who has jordan first, I don’t agree with people who say wilt or kareem. But I also wouldn’t call them haters for having jordan second.

It’s subjective in some respects. Even in hockey goat gets debated a bit, even though Gretzky is way far ahead in most measures. Lebrons averages just aren’t as dominate.

You had him as goat in 2016? Cool, most people that had knowledge of basketball history didn’t at that point.

Will someone pass jordan, definitely. To me and some others, it just hasn’t happened yet. Walking away in prime after 3peat, in part due to not feeling challenged is wild. If bron had won more maybe he’s looking for new challenges too.

Well I didn't mean that literally, I meant it more as, anyone who doesn't believe he belongs in the conversation as the greatest is a hater...

Bron is a basketball prodigy, his life path and personality are different from Mike. He didnt have a love affair with baseball or golf like Mike did to want to try his luck in another sport. He isn't into partying and gambling. LeBron's challenge has always been basketball, as great as he is at it, he isn't bored with it, it's all he knows...

Basketball was never the only thing Mike was good at or all he knew...

No, but 10 years of Pippen will get you further than 4 years of broken Wade.

And then you have to look at the opponent.

Wade is better but the gap between he and Pippen isn't large. As a #1 Wade led his teams beyond the Semifinals a whole one time---->2006. And he had far more opportunities at it than Pippen had...

I dont think its a stretch to say that Pippen, in his lone year as a #1 was a Top 5 MVP finalist and led his team to G7 of the Semis; if Pippen had a longer stretch of being the best player on a team, its more than feasible he gets them beyond that round at least once...

Whether he was ever good enough to be the best player on a championship team is a different consideration and is something that may have always separated Wade from him, even in an alternate reality. But we also saw Wade's entire career and he was only good enough to go beyond Rd2 one time as his team's best player, there are a list of guys popularly thought of as inferior to Wade, who did this more times than Wade (get to a conference finals or further, as a #1 at least twice): Zeke, Ewing, Pettit, Nash, Harden, Mikan, Kidd, this list is a pretty lengthy one...

Wade was better but there isnt a trenendous gap between he and Pippen at all...

Do you think Russell is better than MJ?

If you don't believe Russell to be better than Mike, care to explain why you don't? You place a lot of stock in Mike accomplishing more in less time than Bron, so if that standard is consistent with you, I'm sure you're aware of Russell accomplishing mire than Mike in less time---->and in an era where they didn't do FMVP or DPOY or All-Defense teams, otherwise the gap in accomplishments would be astronomical and more than the "HOF career gap" between Mike and Bron...

Mind you, I'm asking you, because I'm not the guy who says tge guy with the most rings or most accomplishments is the best player ever. That's your argument, not mine. At least, that's what you argue with Bron/Mike, I'm interested in your correlation with Mike/Russell...

 

[Ozymandeas]

yeah....YEAH his ALL STAR team mates form an L backwards

It's disgusting

I won't bring up Jordan because Jordan would've won 10 rings with all that talent but, imagine if Kobe got to play with all these nikkas. He'd at least have 7.

 

[fifth column]

Well I didn't mean that literally, I meant it more as, anyone who doesn't believe he belongs in the conversation as the greatest is a hater...

Bron is a basketball prodigy, his life path and personality are different from Mike. He didnt have a love affair with baseball or golf like Mike did to want to try his luck in another sport. He isn't into partying and gambling. LeBron's challenge has always been basketball, as great as he is at it, he isn't bored with it, it's all he knows...

Basketball was never the only thing Mike was good at or all he knew...


Wade is better but the gap between he and Pippen isn't large. As a #1 Wade led his teams beyond the Semifinals a whole one time---->2006. And he had far more opportunities at it than Pippen had...

I dont think its a stretch to say that Pippen, in his lone year as a #1 was a Top 5 MVP finalist and led his team to G7 of the Semis; if Pippen had a longer stretch of being the best player on a team, its more than feasible he gets them beyond that round at least once...

Whether he was ever good enough to be the best player on a championship team is a different consideration and is something that may have always separated Wade from him, even in an alternate reality. But we also saw Wade's entire career and he was only good enough to go beyond Rd2 one time as his team's best player, there are a list of guys popularly thought of as inferior to Wade, who did this more times than Wade (get to a conference finals or further, as a #1 at least twice): Zeke, Ewing, Pettit, Nash, Harden, Mikan, Kidd, this list is a pretty lengthy one...

Wade was better but there isnt a trenendous gap between he and Pippen at all...

If you don't believe Russell to be better than Mike, care to explain why you don't? You place a lot of stock in Mike accomplishing more in less time than Bron, so if that standard is consistent with you, I'm sure you're aware of Russell accomplishing mire than Mike in less time---->and in an era where they didn't do FMVP or DPOY or All-Defense teams, otherwise the gap in accomplishments would be astronomical and more than the "HOF career gap" between Mike and Bron...

Mind you, I'm asking you, because I'm not the guy who says tge guy with the most rings or most accomplishments is the best player ever. That's your argument, not mine. At least, that's what you argue with Bron/Mike, I'm interested in your correlation with Mike/Russell...

Russell is the goat of the pre-modern NBA over players like Wilt and Jerry West because of the 11 chips in which he was the leader of the team. He belongs in the top 5 of all time.

He is not greater than Mike because his game is not all round, he is more of a defensive player. He is more comparable to Hakeem for the goat defender.

BTW the 6 rings/accolades is not the only reason why Mike is greater than Lebron. He was more dominant in his era over his peers. He led a dynasty with 2 3-peats. Lebron has failed to lead a dynasty. He led a team with 70+ wins and the chip. His impact on the game is greater than Lebron’s. His influence on basketball is greater than Lebron’s. His style of play is more aesthetically pleasing than Lebron’s.

I’m sure we all saw and heard the players talk about how the room changed at the 75 anniversary when Mike entered the building. That’s the goat. Remember I’m not trying to convince you or any Bron stan of anything, just reminding y’all. We gave ya mans 20+ years and he ain’t get there.

 

[Ripp]

If he’s the better player how comes he ain’t win as much or dominate his era like MJ did his? We went from rewarding someone that does more in less time to making exceptions for someone that does less with more time

This should end the thread

 

[Rigby.]

Here's a crazy stat: even though this is his 21st season in the league, LeBron has finished in the top 3 of MVP voting more than half of all the seasons he's played (11 top 3 finishes, which is the record and two times more than MJ).

Prob never reaches this stratosphere again (I don't see how any respectable top 3 ballot doesn't contain at least Jokic and Joel for the forseeable future with the pace they continue playing at), but it is a real shame he had that Solomon Hill injury a couple years back. That was going to probably be his swan song 5th MVP and/or 5th title season.

It was just a sudden drop from tier 1, still somewhat in the best player conversation, to tier 2 almost outside of the top 10

 

[Rigby.]

As good as LeBron's career is - possibly the best ever considering he still may be the second best "I'll take him over anyone in one game" dude in the league at 40 - he def got a lil bit snake bitten/bad luck to his certain points of his career. The whole way Rose as MVP went down, not getting a DPOY in Miami, the cramping shyt against Spurs in game 1, Kyrie AND Love getting hurt, JR Smith stuff, etc etc.

I know most top level stars have moments like this, but it's just something worth highlighting with him since he's pretty much the only Mt Rushmore guy we have in the league right now