At some point won't African immigrants just become AA?

[BigMan]

Pretty sure bouncy is from New York too

 

[BIXBY]

It's up to the person really...

If they're here, it's best they assimilate. The AA culture is the best and most refined culture outchea ... y the fukk they gonna bring they backward ass culture to the US?!


To be honest, them niqqas hate us anyway and do their best to do CAC shyt and kiss the white-man ass...

Ain't no euro-dressin assed niqqa rolling with my set.

 

[DrBanneker]

I disagree with this statement. We have been isolated for so long in america outside other African descent groups, that geneticist recognize us as our own ethnicity. I recently did a genetic break down of my DNA to try and see what ethnicities or populations in the world I mostly genetically relate to and this is what I got.# Population (source) Distance
1 African_American 8.26
2 Kikuyu 10.14
3 N.E_Bantu 11.14
4 Gambian 16.54
5 Mandinka 16.95
6 Mende 18.38
7 Esan 19.21
8 Yoruba 19.45
9 Maasai 23.97
10 Somali 47.03
11 Ethiopian 58.37
12 Algerian 88.15
13 Moroccan 88.31
14 Tunisian 88.62
15 Yemeni 91.15
16 Egyptian 97.01
17 Jordanian 100.11
18 Syrian 100.12
19 Uzbek 101.01
20 Nogai 102.01

AAs are genetically distinct since we have a unique mixture of multiple West/Central African groups as well as White admixture ranging in 10-20% and occasionally some Native American. However, though groups that are distinct by certain genetic marker combinations are often different ethnic groups, a lot of groups that are pretty similar can be different ethnicities. For example the Ethiopian, Syrian, Jordanian, etc. tags above can cover a multitude of different ethnicities that share neither language nor religion and have animosities going back thousands of years. Does it mean they are any less ethnic because they are genetically close?

But again, I wasn't arguing we aren't distinct in that way. I am talking about Old World ethnic groups that trace themselves to relatively small geographic areas, distinct languages or dialects, and often a sense of "purity". As AAs we have been making ourselves for about 400 years which doesn't make us the youngest ethnic group but one of the more relatively recent (and still less homogenous) ones. One thing that distinguishes AAs is that though you may recognize us fairly easy in genetic haplotype data, we are not really a pure group and until lately have not even tried to define ourselves as such. Remember when most N.O. creoles tried not to claim AA? Most do now in my experience. I'm just saying AA ethnicity isn't nailed down so hard yet to keep newcomers out. Even if Africans accounting for 10% of our population like @Poitier pointed to intermarried with us, that genetic data would only change slightly slowing more African ancestry.

One more thing: those genetic tests give results based on average frequencies for certain genes. They do not represent a red line for ethnic identification. Every one of those groups, including, AAs can have a large variation in a bunch of markers. AAs can go from nearly all West Africa to 20-30% White even without including mixed people. It gets even dicier when trying to declare ancestry to a particular group in Europe or Asia just based on genetic data given the history of intermarriage, migration, and war. That's why I am not a fan of declaring or changing ethnic identity based on test data like those Ancestry.com commercials push.

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

.........I'm not going back and forth and arguing with anybody when it comes to subjects like this because there are too many non black lurkers from other sites hiding in the cut for my liking. I will say this though, I don't understand how African Americans distinguishing their own ethnicity, culture and heritage equates to distancing themselves from other blacks in the African Diaspora or keeping them out. In all honesty we have been the most inclusive people in the diaspora.......to the point were even people outside the African Diaspora are a bit too comfortable when it comes to certain things regarding us. If Afro people from other nations can take pride in their ethnicity, heritage and culture then I don't see why we can't do the same.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

As AAs we have been making ourselves for about 400 years which doesn't make us the youngest ethnic group but one of the more relatively recent (and still less homogenous) ones. One thing that distinguishes AAs is that though you may recognize us fairly easy in genetic haplotype data, we are not really a pure group and until lately have not even tried to define ourselves as such. Remember when most N.O. creoles tried not to claim AA? Most do now in my experience. I'm just saying AA ethnicity isn't nailed down so hard yet to keep newcomers out.

by now, the afram ethnicity/identity is fully crystallized

 

[DrBanneker]

.........I'm not going back and forth and arguing with anybody when it comes to subjects like this because there are too many non black lurkers from other sites hiding in the cut for my liking. I will say this though, I don't understand how African Americans distinguishing their own ethnicity, culture and heritage equates to distancing themselves from other blacks in the African Diaspora or keeping them out. In all honesty we have been the most invlusive people in the diaspora.......to the point were even people outside the African Diaspora are a bit too comfortable when it comes to certain things regarding us. If Afro people from other nations can take pride in their ethnicity, heritage and culture then I don't see why we can't do the same.

I agree, you will see nothing but pride in our heritage from me. I think people are confusing my comments to say AAs are not an ethnic group. Of course we are, but as far as the range of ethnic groups go we are much less set in our ways or inflexible about identity. Though this causes problems with community and economic cooperation that we really need I am happy to do without the mindless bigotry or so-called purity tests other ethnic groups use as bread and butter.

I thought the whole point of this thread is not whether we are an ethnic group but whether we will ever expand membership to long time descendants of other Black groups such as Africans and West Indians who weren't direct descendants of American slaves. Are we going to always require proof of slave ancestry or we were just going to assimilate other Black folks in the US after a few generations.

 

[DrBanneker]

by now, the afram ethnicity/identity is fully crystallized

Sure, I agree. I'd actually argue it's been crystallized for at least 100 years or even back to a generation after slave importation ended depending on your definition. But that's not the final word. Cultures change all the time and whether or not AA is defined as strictly as it is now 100 years from now is unknown. Maybe it will only be people with clear ancestry to American slaves. Maybe it will be a mix of those people and assimilated descendants of later immigrants. It is really unknown at this point.

 

[Poitier]

Its important to remember African Americans come from a small stock of enslaved Africans. We are very closely related.

We can't do it now because not enough African Americans get ancestry test, but it should be fairly easy to see who is and isn't AA in the future when we get complete genetic profiles.

I don't see how any of this thread is "an attack on Africa" because African Americans are asserting our own unique identity within the diaspora.

Furthermore, I don't see any African American saying Black immigrants can't assimilate into the broader African American community through intermarriage. The idea that being Black and simply being born in America won't fly though as more African Americans start coming into contact with Black immigrants and coming into conscious about ethnic identity.

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

I agree, you will see nothing but pride in our heritage from me. I think people are confusing my comments to say AAs are not an ethnic group. Of course we are, but as far as the range of ethnic groups go we are much less set in our ways or inflexible about identity. Though this causes problems with community and economic cooperation that we really need I am happy to do without the mindless bigotry or so-called purity tests other ethnic groups use as bread and butter.

I thought the whole point of this thread is not whether we are an ethnic group but whether we will ever expand membership to long time descendants of other Black groups such as Africans and West Indians who weren't direct descendants of American slaves. Are we going to always require proof of slave ancestry or we were just going to assimilate other Black folks in the US after a few generations.

I understand your point of view, I may not agree with everything you've said but I respect how you express your opinions with diplomacy, respect and reason unlike one particular poster in here who is being obtuse. I'm just going to put it like this lol! When all the lions come together to make Voltron, the green and blue lion ain't arguing with the black lion on some "why can't I be black" shyt. Because they all know together they form an entity that can defend they kingdom. We all Voltron even when we are individual lions. Lmao!

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Its important to remember African Americans come from a small stock of enslaved Africans. We are very closely related.

We can't do it now because not enough African Americans get ancestry test, but it should be fairly easy to see who is and isn't AA in the future when we get complete genetic profiles.

I don't see how any of this thread is "an attack on Africa" because African Americans are asserting our own unique identity within the diaspora.

Furthermore, I don't see any African American saying Black immigrants can't assimilate into the broader African American community through intermarriage. The idea that being Black and simply being born in America won't fly though as more African Americans start coming into contact with Black immigrants and coming into conscious about ethnic identity.

THIS....

The African-American museum in DC was a VERY good start.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Sure, I agree. I'd actually argue it's been crystallized for at least 100 years or even back to a generation after slave importation ended depending on your definition. But that's not the final word. Cultures change all the time and whether or not AA is defined as strictly as it is now 100 years from now is unknown. Maybe it will only be people with clear ancestry to American slaves. Maybe it will be a mix of those people and assimilated descendants of later immigrants. It is really unknown at this point.

....I see no reason why it would change after it fully crystallized after heightened, self and historic awareness that was hardened through Jim Crow/Civil Rights/Black Power era's.

 

[bouncy]

As a Haitian-American I disagree. I saw more divide and hate from other black groups than I do now. That might be your experience but my experience being raised in NYC which has the most diverse black diaspora says otherwise.

I only saw that in young people, older people wasn't like that, as far as African Americans. Older foreign blacks were a different story. I remember my aunt going off on them when they used to act stuck up. She is a proud woman, so she used to get offended when some of them would think she was supposed to be low class, and they were better. I grew up with them, so I didn't see it like that, but now that I'm older, I guess she did have a point with some of the things she used to say, and how they used to act. I'm from NYC as well, and I do admit Haitians got it bad from everyone, but again that was when we were young. By the mid 90's no one cared, at least in Brooklyn.

I now know that most people who leave their country, and live a better life, tend to have narcissistic traits so that alone causes issues. It's really no different then blacks from the south moving up north, and getting money, but I think foreigners were a little too arrogant, and they passed that onto their children. It's hard to be cool with someone who think they are better then you, when they grew up with you, and do damn near the same things you do!

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

I only saw that in young people, older people wasn't like that, as far as African Americans. Older foreign blacks were a different story. I remember my aunt going off on them when they used to act stuck up. She is a proud woman, so she used to get offended when some of them would think she was supposed to be low class, and they were better. I grew up with them, so I didn't see it like that, but now that I'm older, I guess she did have a point with some of the things she used to say, and how they used to act.

I now know that most people who leave their country, and live a better life, tend to have narcissistic traits so that alone causes issues. It's really no different then blacks from the south moving up north, and getting money, but I think foreigners were a little too arrogant, and they passed that onto their children.

This is interesting reading everybodies experiences in regards to how people of the diaspora interact and view each other. From what I've wittinessed growing up is African Americans have been the most willing to jump into the Pan Africanism/back to Africa/Say it loud I'm black and I'm proud mentality. We even invented Kwanzaa for gods sake.....Kwanzaa. It was never African American history month it was alway Black history month, that is until Trump tried to change it proving that even white folk make distinctions between black ethnicities and African American is not a catch all term to them either.

 

[Phitz]

what is your ethnic background?

African

 

[BigMan]

African