As a 2-State Solution Loses Steam, a 1-State Plan Gains Traction in Israel/Palestine

GnauzBookOfRhymes

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I agree with Bill Maher 100%.
The peace/land deal is never going to get as good for the Palestinians as it was in years past. Imagine how strong their bargaining position would be today if they had taken the deal in 1947....the Arabs went to war and lost. Israel will never give back land gained through war...those who disagree are free to start another war.
I'm getting close believing these people don't want peace. They have fumbled the bag way too many times on the negotiation table.
'Yesterday's price is not today's price'...

What is so fukked up about the situation is how obvious it is that the Arab countries never actually gave a fuk about the Palestinians. They didn't start the war bc they cared about establishing a Palestinian state, they did so for their own various national interests.

Jordan had a secret deal with Israel to support their independence, in exchange for Israel allowing them annex the West Bank, parts of Syria and E. Jerusalem (which they held until they lost it to Israel after participating in the 1967 6 day war).

Egypt and Saudis were trying to counter balance each other. The mufti asked the Arab countries not to directly attack but instead give him weapons/fighters etc, which they refused bc none of them actually wanted a fully independent Palestinian state that wasn't under their control.

Bc the Arabs didn't really give a fukk, and were unsure of the goals, they half assed the attack and contrary to what many people believe, ISRAEL SIGNIFICANTLY OUTNUMBERED ARAB forces. And to make matters worse, many of the Israeli fighters were stone cold, professional killers who were veterans of WW2 and/or the decades long insurgency against the British mandate. If the Arabs wanted they could've flooded the region and won by sheer numbers, but they didn't.

After that, you have to realize that Arab nationalism, which became the dominant movement in the region in the 50s and beyond, depended on the status quo of an Israeli occupation and a stateless Palestinian people. That is because even as everyone proclaimed themselves as Arab nationalists, the only thing the Arab governments could ever agree on was PUBLIC opposition to Israel and claiming to care for the Palestinians. Of course privately they all had secret agreements/understandings with Israel and were constantly backstabbing each other to try and gain additional influence in the region.
 

FAH1223

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To be fair, that’s not the point of contention is it? Isn’t it merely that it was never a self ruling Palestinian state for nearly 500 years prior to Israel?


:gucci:

:mjlol:

Of course that’s true. Anyone with a brain knows the Ottomans ruled for 400 years with an interruption due to the Muhammad Ali dynasty in the 19th century.

It’s like saying there were no Arab states cause they were part of the Ottoman (or Byzantine or whatever Empire was there before).
 

Pressure

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:mjlol:

Of course that’s true. Anyone with a brain knows the Ottomans ruled for 400 years with an interruption due to the Muhammad Ali dynasty in the 19th century.

It’s like saying there were no Arab states cause they were part of the Ottoman (or Byzantine or whatever Empire was there before).
I think it’s merely saying that using the claim of Palestinian statehood as a measure to undermine the legitimacy of Israeli statehood doesn’t have legs historically.

In what other scenario do we play this game?
 

FAH1223

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I think it’s merely saying that using the claim of Palestinian statehood as a measure to undermine the legitimacy of Israeli statehood doesn’t have legs historically.

In what other scenario do we play this game?

I don’t get this questioning of Israeli legitimacy

The whole world recognizes Israel with the borders of June 4, 1967. The Arab Peace Plan two decades ago preached this. Oslo did. It’s done. The Arab states aren’t and can’t fight a war with Israel. Before Assad had a civil war, he even was having a peace talks with Israel about formally ending that war.

Fatah isn’t trying to destroy Israel. They coooerate and the Israelis facilitate more settlers to steal Palestinian land.

Hamas and PIJ are the only ones left fighting. And they’ll be “defeated” but the mindset of resistance will continue with blockades and occupation in a place like Gaza.

You have both approaches of surrender (Fatah) and fighting (Hamas).
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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What is so fukked up about the situation is how obvious it is that the Arab countries never actually gave a fuk about the Palestinians. They didn't start the war bc they cared about establishing a Palestinian state, they did so for their own various national interests.

Jordan had a secret deal with Israel to support their independence, in exchange for Israel allowing them annex the West Bank, parts of Syria and E. Jerusalem (which they held until they lost it to Israel after participating in the 1967 6 day war).

Egypt and Saudis were trying to counter balance each other. The mufti asked the Arab countries not to directly attack but instead give him weapons/fighters etc, which they refused bc none of them actually wanted a fully independent Palestinian state that wasn't under their control.

Bc the Arabs didn't really give a fukk, and were unsure of the goals, they half assed the attack and contrary to what many people believe, ISRAEL SIGNIFICANTLY OUTNUMBERED ARAB forces. And to make matters worse, many of the Israeli fighters were stone cold, professional killers who were veterans of WW2 and/or the decades long insurgency against the British mandate. If the Arabs wanted they could've flooded the region and won by sheer numbers, but they didn't.

After that, you have to realize that Arab nationalism, which became the dominant movement in the region in the 50s and beyond, depended on the status quo of an Israeli occupation and a stateless Palestinian people. That is because even as everyone proclaimed themselves as Arab nationalists, the only thing the Arab governments could ever agree on was PUBLIC opposition to Israel and claiming to care for the Palestinians. Of course privately they all had secret agreements/understandings with Israel and were constantly backstabbing each other to try and gain additional influence in the region.
If people didn’t peep how Turkey, Erdogan specifically was just trolling Israel over nuclear weapons and other things but then not offering to do anything substantive to naturalize Palestinians or give them jobs etc then you know its just them using islam and arabization or some mix of the two to appeal to their bases.

its cynicism to its core

AGAIN…the Kurds outnumber Palestinians by 2-3x. NO ONE is talking about home.

People have a BIG Kurdish hole in their arguments if you let pro-kurd media tell it:



 
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☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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I don’t get this questioning of Israeli legitimacy

The whole world recognizes Israel with the borders of June 4, 1967. The Arab Peace Plan two decades ago preached this. Oslo did. It’s done. The Arab states aren’t and can’t fight a war with Israel. Before Assad had a civil war, he even was having a peace talks with Israel about formally ending that war.

Fatah isn’t trying to destroy Israel.
They coooerate and the Israelis facilitate more settlers to steal Palestinian land.

Hamas and PIJ are the only ones left fighting. And they’ll be “defeated” but the mindset of resistance will continue with blockades and occupation in a place like Gaza.

You have both approaches of surrender (Fatah) and fighting (Hamas).
:comeon:
 

GnauzBookOfRhymes

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the go-to republican dunk on twitter is "why the fukk aren't these rich arab countries taking these people in"? and there's zero answer for that :dead:

Palestinians have no desire, rightfully so, to be Egyptian/Jordanian/Saudis etc. It's one of those questions that many people wouldn't even respond to because the underlying assumption is so disrespectful.

It's like when some idiot yells "durr if you don't like _________ (some random policy that someone might disagree with) then go live in _______ (some random European country 😂).
 

the cac mamba

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Palestinians have no desire, rightfully so, to be Egyptian/Jordanian/Saudis etc. It's one of those questions that many people wouldn't even respond to because the underlying assumption is so disrespectful.
can't be much of an "open air concentration camp" then :ehh:

from what i've heard of prisons and concentration camps. i think i'd rather be a saudi arabian
 

LOST IN THE SAUCE

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if its not about islam (is he a muslim? :jbhmm:) :sas1:

and its not about being Arab (because he’s not) :sas1:

Then why is @FAH1223 supporting Hamas? :patrice:
Maybe he doesn't support Hamas, he's just against genocide?

We've had this conversation before. Empathy is a foreign concept to you. Seeing you struggle to understand other people's capacity for empathy is incredibly rough to watch. Before you ask why someone would have empathy, you should probably just go to therapy and figure out why you don't have any.
 

hashmander

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They want the US to stop backing Israel so Arab countries can finally win that war.

They want the other genocide sir.
man please, even without US backing israel would body slam all those weak arab countries at the same damn time. they just get aid from america because they can, it's a reminder to us about who runs this shyt.
 
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