Article Bashes The "Black Man's Ideal" female body...

[MostReal]

man the coli wolves went in

 

[PartyHeart]

you never asked me anything, stop it. i acknowledge women in general face systematic sexism. problem is black feminist want to join in everything white feminist are going against. like sexism in the work place. which black women face as well, but instead of charging it to white men, they want to pretend they experience the same type of sexism from black men, when you don't.

You can not contribute to sexism with every one of your beliefs and then hide your hand talking about well we don't have the power in this country so our sexism doesn't really count. And then get indignant when called out on the role you play in sexism.

You can keep denying you haven't done/said things you have because you don't want to address them, but I know it was also you who specifically said Black boys are more worthy of being invested in than Black girls because they are boys.

Some of you are so silly. You think Black women can demand equality from the white patriarchy system and that system alone when our own men don't even want us to be equal. We're not even on the same accord but you prefer Black women say nothing about it.

but black women love white men directly.

Lies keep coming. Every piece of evidence and research shows that Black women are loyal to Black men and its the reverse that is not happening.

go back to LSA then.

No

i don't know why you have all our opinions all lumped together but i never said feminist were dividing the community. white supremacy with the help of chauvinism has done away with the community a long time ago.

Fixed.

black women have zero respect for black men. atleast at some point, most of us had the utmost respect for black women. but black women show us who they really are and that kinda respect gets diminished. but at least the respect was there at some point, most black girls/women never respected black males to begin with. especially if he doesn't want to play some role or character to appease whatever fetish y'all want.

You have zero evidence for this. On the other hand, there is documented evidence that Black women and our concerns were diminished in a movement that was supposed to be about us and our children.

as for the features, thats propaganda, contrary to the "white man loves our features" train y'all like to run, black men are the biggest supporters of the black womans features.

Uh huh.

and yes, when i hear about a black woman who wants a thug; get killed by that same thug. i blame her stupidity. when women have kids by dudes who dont like them like that, i blame them when they're a single mother no one wants.

But that same thug is awarded sympathy by the community if he's shot and killed in his line of work. Probably by you too (but of course you will deny that now). And as usual you neglect the fact that he chose to get a woman who he 'didn't like that much' pregnant. Yeah, yeah I know the response. Men are the leaders by default but should not be expected to exercise good judgement, character, morality, self control, or responsibility for any of their actions. That's woman's work.

 

[marcuz]

You can not contribute to sexism with every one of your beliefs and then hide your hand talking about well we don't have the power in this country so our sexism doesn't really count. And then get indignant when called out on the role you play in sexism.

how am i contributing to systematic sexism?

You can keep denying you haven't done/said things you have because you don't want to address them, but I know it was also you who specifically said Black boys are more worthy of being invested in than Black girls because they are boys.

what am i not addressing? and yes, i did say that about black boys. contrary to popular belief, a stronger male makes for a stronger community. you can give black women the all the money in the world and the black community will still be in a shyt position because women dont build.

Some of you are so silly. You think Black women can demand equality from the white patriarchy system and that system alone when our own men don't even want us to be equal. We're not even on the same accord but you prefer Black women say nothing about it.

white patriarchy has no problem placing black women in a higher position than black women. it's the best way to disrupt the natural family order. also, what black men are trying to hold black women back? any other argument, black women have no problem telling nikkas how much better they're doing in school or their career.

Lies keep coming. Every piece of evidence and research shows that Black women are loyal to Black men and its the reverse that is not happening.

loyalty or relegated? i think black women often confuse the two.

No

then dont complain

Fixed.

no, i had it right the first time

You have zero evidence for this. On the other hand, there is documented evidence that Black women and our concerns were diminished in a movement that was supposed to be about us and our children.

my evidence is my upbringng and the upbringing of black males around me. i'm not trying to have the 400 yr old black man argument. neither you nor i were alive during the civil right era. but seeing how black women see gender first, race second. the entire civil rights movement SOULD have focused on men only. instead of fighting along side women who would later betray black men to join white feminist.

But that same thug is awarded sympathy by the community if he's shot and killed in his line of work. Probably by you too (but of course you will deny that now). And as usual you neglect the fact that he chose to get a woman who he 'didn't like that much' pregnant. Yeah, yeah I know the response. Men are the leaders by default but should not be expected to exercise good judgement, character, morality, self control, or responsibility for any of their actions. That's woman's work.

who? WHO IS AWARDING SYMPATHY TO THUGS? its usually his dumb ass momma and sister on tv talking bout how lil ray ray didn't deserve to die. for the bolded, look, chick. the guy can flee, you are the one left with the baby. if black women are going to be too fukking dumb to protect their womb, anyone is going to bomb it. im not going to sit here and try to shame the nikkas y'all CHOOSE to be with. y'all are not being raped, y'all have damn near 30 forms of birth control, i have no sympathy for y'all purposely poor choices in the men you let cum in you raw. so with black women choosing to start families independent of a strong male, what am i supposed to do with that? black men like me are supposed to go on the corner and find the nikka thats fukking yall and say "hey, man, you should really take care of your kids!" i mean, really, what do you want from us?

 

[Michael9100]

I don't care how a woman looks on the outside... its whats on the inside that matters most!

 

[PartyHeart]

Before you fukks even say it...you god damn right "this nikka wrote a book".... I know how you Coli dudes are....



And how did we get here? Are you saying that black women are smarter? That black boys are lazier than black girls? Are you saying that, if black men just "pulled themselves up from their bootstraps", that they could be just as successful as white men, but that black women are simply not even in the running because they are women?

Not at all. White people would try to prevent that with every bone in their bodies. However they could excel in education as much as Black women, especially in the physical sciences and math because they are apart of the gender that is thought to be more capable and given more leeway in that area.

My take : The mechanisms that hold back blacks from educational opportunities as a group simply manifest themselves in slightly different ways for black boys and black girls. Slight is the key word here, but slight as it is, it may be there.

You on the other hand....seem to be thinking like a white conservative (when it comes to black males) on education. "Blacks with the correct qualifications get a shot" is synonymous with "Black males with the correct qualifications get a shot".

I don't think its about Black boys pulling themselves up by their bootstraps or doing it alone. There needs to be support from the community, but that starts at actually holding Black boys accountable for their choices. You don't get anywhere by excusing a Black boy for choosing a poor life path by saying "oh well if Black girls would..."

The difference between Black girls and Black men in the community is that we are not allotted those types of excuses.

Regardless of who was a couple of percentage points higher, I will guarantee that blacks *as a group* were at the very bottom. Which is what the point should be.

You could be absolutely right, but it is hard to get to the point where we can look at everything as a group when even inwardly within the group many don't believe an entire half of the group deserves the same type of opportunities and respect as the other half. That is the point. Truthfully Black feminism is not about attacking Black men. Not at all. It is about getting Black men to understand our issues as women and fight with us against them in addition to the racial issues we both face. The reason it doesn't happen is because a lot of Black men actually believe in the tenets of sexism that Black women want to fight against. That's just the plain truth.

Now I have an idea of why Black men believe in sexism so strongly, but that's a topic for another day. I'm already tired of typing.

These stories you talked about are terrible..and I am the first person upset when I see *our* women being treated like dogs by these filthy fukking white men. I have no doubt that white women would never ever be treated like this.

At least we can agree on this. It the community it often feels that the victimization of Black women is not as big of a cause for concern as the victimization of Black men. And that's beyond disheartening.

STILL....The bolded is a replica of your above mentality. If black women have an issue, it's *because* they are women. If black men have an issue, it's because something we are doing.

If you can't see how the criminal justice system is clearly ultra-oppressive towards black men I don't know what to tell you. Make no mistake, black women are right there after us, but criminal justice in this country targets black males more than anyone else. We are seen as more of a threat, partially because of cultural issues, partially because of stats, and partially because physiology simply dictates that men in general *are* more dangerous than women.

On that last point...Truthfully..you could make a case that criminal justice in general is the *single* area where women *in general* get things a bit easier than men. Historically, that has been the case at least in regards to sentencing.

The criminal justice system is ultra oppressive of Black men, no doubt. You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say so I will clarify. Black men are most definitely larger targets for police because they are men and assumed to be more dangerous as you said. However once Black women are in the system as well we are sentenced just as harshly. But you are correct, we are not targeted as much. I would point out though, that feminism actually fights against forcing men into the little box that causes masculinity to be viewed as so violent.

I still think that media representation is mostly a wash however.... I mean, it's mostly been so shytty for either group....hard to really pick between one or the other.

Black men are rarely given the "sexy appeal treatment" either mind you. I really think this point needs to be emphasized more. Outside of the occasional Idris or Denzel role....the media largely ignores our sexuality as well. The media may only be obsessed with light-skinned black women...but at least they get some play. The media by and large only focuses on white sexuality...those ethnic women you see here and there are nearly always made to uplift white male superiority at some point in their careers.

I would still argue that within the community Black women absolutely do a better job of promoting Black men's natural attractiveness than the reverse but to your overall point

Black men do have a big advantage in sports but 3 things need to be said :

1) I personally dislike it when we include sports culture into overall media culture; one is based *mostly* on merit and carries significantly less cultural influence (regardless of what fukking journalist try and tell you, athletes are just athletes, they don't carry the prestige of actors, musicians, writers, directors, etc). Sports are sports, media is media, imo at least.

2) One can make the argument that, in this current ESPN controlled climate...black mens prominance in sports is oftentimes a hindrance. You have fukking old cacs labeling young, hardworking, passionate black men as "lazy" or "troublemakers" or "immature" if they fukking celebrate a touch down...it's sickening. This is a completely different subject, but I think it's worth mentioning.

3) A large aspect of sports is about performance....this is another one of those physiological things; men simply perform better than women, so you can't really complain that the NBA is more popular than the WNBA. People want to see the height of human athleticism, and that mostly comes from males. To be fair, black males have always supported the Williams sisters, and other black female athletes when they reached a certain level of prominence.

Again,

It's not about want to be a victim...it's about practicality and loyalty.

What do you think? That black women are actually going to "get something" by tagging along the white feminist movement? That when they finally get that fukking siren hag Hillary in the office that it's an accomplishment that's going to benefit you or your daughters some day?

Black feminism doesn't have anything to do with white women. I need y'all to get that. More often than not Black and other WOC feminists spend a ton of time actually clowning white feminists. They claim solidarity out of one side of their mouths but refuse to acknowledge the privileges they face by being white if not down right go to bat to keep those privileges. Thats where the twitter ht :solidarityisforwhitewomen came from. The #blackpowerisforblackmen ht was borne from similar sentiment, that Black women claim to want solidarity with BW but balk at the idea of fighting against sexism along with racism, an intersectionality that Black women cannot rid themselves of no matter how much either group tries to convince us one half of us isn't that important.

If black males truly are truly "above" black women somehow, there must be such a small barrier between them that it is damn near indistinguishable.

Black feminism is asking for nothing. All of this petty nonsense aside...what do black men have that black women don't? And vice versa. Lets assume that you are right...black men have some sort of "privilege" over black women...how much higher is our glass ceiling as opposed to yours? Like 5 feet?

I could ride with this. Truthfully I don't think most Black feminist care to measure the degree to which Black men are above Black women in society, as much as we just want Black men to show empathy and help with things that directly concern us and not necessarily them. And if it is somehow too much to expect help from our counterparts at least expect y'all to not directly contribute to our troubles with intrarcial sexism.

The fact of the matter is that black women are the ones here trying to engage in some separate fight...colluding with outsiders and following the leads of cac women.

I've already said it has nothing to do with white women. Its almost as if it doesn't matter what Black women say as long as you all have something else cooked up in your head about our intentions.

And as far as engaging in a separate fight. That's exactly the issue. You all see black women fighting for something that includes all of our issues as somehow being a separate fight. We are asking you to fight with us, your refusal to do so is the only thing thats making it separate.

 

[PartyHeart]

Black men aren't into the "Mens Right Activism", you don't see us teaming up with cacs for our "progress", but some black women think it's okay for them to create a schism. WHY? Because some white women have yet to take advantage of their absolute astonishing amount of privilege and they are dragging y'all along for the damn ride!

Plenty of Black men are into MRA and there is plenty of evidence of it on this website alone. I remember a thread about Black male MRAs getting his negro wake up call too.

I hate to say it...god I hate this phrase...but you seem to be engaging in oppression Olympics....as do a lot of black feminist. Black men speak out on the oppression that our race faces and has faced in this country for centuries, and some black women have to try and tear us apart because they have to deal with fukking weaves and we don't. It's petty and counter-productive.

Like I said, you will continue to believe what you cooked up in your head to invalidate Black women's experiences and it will continue to not be true. What I don't understand is the complaining about the division when y'all created it and continue to dig it deeper with your refusal to respect Black female issues

You'd still be the most unemployed, most locked up, most harassed by officers, least desirable, most oppressed, most despised group of people in the country.

And yet with all that considered, we'd still be better off as Black men in a patriarchal society. Think about that for a second.

I acknowledge racism against the black race.....

And there it is. In your mind thats all that matters because thats all YOU face.

 

[marcuz]

And yet with all that considered, we'd still be better off as Black men in a patriarchal society. Think about that for a second.

how? it's like you think black men and white men are in cahoots behind closed doors. black women make just as much money as the men, they dont have to deal with "oppression" from their men, because you get all of your opportunities from non-black men. black women are more likely to get loans than black men. hell, black women are only hated because they produce BLACK MEN. you are a non-threat, just an annoyance. whites will include your type in their circles because they know you hate nikkas just as much as they do.

 

[PartyHeart]

how am i contributing to systematic sexism?

By believing in sexist principles, such as that boys are more valuable than girls. Which you just admitted to below.

what am i not addressing? and yes, i did say that about black boys. contrary to popular belief, a stronger male makes more a stronger community. you can give black women the all the money in the world and the black community will still be in a shyt position because women dont build.

And he says all this after asking how he is contributing to systematic sexism

white patriarchy has no problem placing black women in a higher position than black women. it's the best way to disrupt the natural family order. also, what black men are trying to hold black women back? any other argument, black women have no problem telling nikkas how much better they're doing in school or their career.

Uh uh. You do realize, in all your infinite male leadership head of household wisdom, that systematic sexism includes women getting paid less for the same work (less value) as men. And women being afforded less opportunities in higher levels of leadership than men (because 'women don't build'). Right?

I'm sure you are still very confused about your contributions to systematic sexism though.

loyalty or relegated? i think black women often confuse the two.

No, actual loyalty. Black women are CHOOSING Black men when they don't have to. Black men are choosing others at an increasing rate because they want to run away from their Blackness thru procreation.

then dont complain

The same way you don't complain about LSA?

no, i had it right the first time

Nope you didn't.

my evidence is my upbringng and the upbringing of black males around me. i'm not trying to have the 400 yr old black man argument. neither you nor i were alive during the civil right era. but seeing how black women see gender first, race second. the entire civil rights movement SOULD have focused on men only.

In some ways it was. You clearly didn't do the education. If it wasn't, known Black female haters couldn't have made it into leadership ranks of the power movement. Notable Black female civil rights activists wouldn't have had their voices subjugated or their capability, intelligence, and strength questioned.

instead of fighting along side women who would later betray black men to join white feminist.

You have history confused. Black women only adopted Black feminism when Black men adopted chauvinism. Black women weren't and still aren't willing to trade white male rule for Black male rule. The goal is equality.

who? WHO IS AWARDING SYMPATHY TO THUGS? its usually his dumb ass momma and sister on tv talking bout how lil ray ray didn't deserve to die. for the bolded, look, chick.

By assigning them no blame you are awarding them sympathy. Hell you are awarding them beyond sympathy, you are awarding them free reign over the community. "fukk it up all you want, its ultimately some woman's fault because she blah blah blah" whatever nonsense I'm sure you are about to type next

the guy can flee, you are the one left with the baby.

Only, and I mean only in the Black community is a man abandoning his children a simple fact of life to be expected. And look at all the wonders this mentality has brought us. The next minute you will be lamenting the position of Black men but do nothing to empower them that they can be any better than the lowest common denominator. That they can be anything more than the very worst that anyone that comes near them 'allows' them to be.

Box Cutta, you want to know how the gap between Black boys and girls in educational attainment and other instances came to be, this attitude is the reason for it. It begins when the community refuses to assign Black boys/men even the smallest, most basic human responsibility, which is to take care of their own damn children as opposed to putting it on women. That breeds lack of accountability into Black boys from the onset, creates the mindset that Black women are supposed to do everything for them, and leads to them abandoning their children the same way their father abandoned them. This results in a cycle of underachievement and holding up the wrong ideals as masculine for Black boys.

Instead of having sex with any woman that obliges you being seen as optional/a choice, being a father to the children you created is

i mean, really, what do you want from us?

Accountability for your actions, as an individual and in the community at large. That includes everything from acknowledging and correcting your role in sexism in the community to taking care of your children and taking responsibility for where you choose to put your seed (or admonishing Black men who don't, rather than blaming Black women solely like some idiot who doesn't understand biology).

And when I say you I don't mean you specifically. I know you're beyond bitter and a hopeless case. I mean you as in Black men that are salvageable and don't hate Black women.

 

[PartyHeart]

black women make just as much money as the men

It would be nice if you actually attempted to be accurate in your claims or gracefully bowed out of this debate. Literally nothing you've typed in this thread thus far has any basis in reality. You would be hard pressed to even find a study that validated the foolishness you just typed.

 

[marcuz]

By believing in sexist principles, such as that boys are more valuable than girls. Which you just admitted to below.




And he says all this after asking how he is contributing to systematic sexism

look at the black community. it's not a coincidence that the boys aren't being invested in, and nothing is being built to change it's surroundings. it's funny, when black women do date outside their race. they talk about how the men treat them better, and it's like, yeah, because you're dealing with men that were raised with patriarchal values.

if you don't believe a community needs strong men in order to thrive, i don't know how to convince you other wise. i guess we're just doomed to watch black women produce the type of men they claim to hate.

Uh uh. You do realize, in all your infinite male leadership head of household wisdom, that systematic sexism includes women getting paid less for the same work (less value) as men. And women being afforded less opportunities in higher levels of leadership than men (because 'women don't build'). Right?

I'm sure you are still very confused about your contributions to systematic sexism though.

and once again, look at the gap between all other races, then at the salary gap between black men and black men. it's barely noticeably, but either way, i support equal pay.

No, actual loyalty. Black women are CHOOSING Black men when they don't have to. Black men are choosing others at an increasing rate because they want to run away from their Blackness thru procreation.

some black women are choosing, but for a lot of black women who can, they are leaving. i've never seen a women plot on getting men like black women do with cacs, it's sad and sickening. just type in black women white men on youtube and you get hundreds of women basically begging white men to love them. y'all out here writing books, making blogs and forums on how to get white men. it's really a reflection of how poor of a job black men are doing.

The same way you don't complain about LSA?

i dont go to LSA and complain about LSA.

In some ways it was. You clearly didn't do the education. If it wasn't, known Black female haters couldn't have made it into leadership ranks of the power movement. Notable Black female civil rights activists wouldn't have had their voices subjugated or their capability, intelligence, and strength questioned.

considering how easy black women got gamed up by white feminist, their intelligence and LOYALTY should have been questioned. as far as strength, when dealing with cacs that were beating nikkas asses and sicking dogs and water hoses on them; why would i want to subject my woman to that?

You have history confused. Black women only adopted Black feminism when Black men adopted chauvinism. Black women weren't and still aren't willing to trade white male rule for Black male rule. The goal is equality.

when exactly did we adopt chauvinism? do you have a date?

By assigning them no blame you are awarding them sympathy. Hell you are awarding them beyond sympathy, you are awarding them free reign over the community. "fukk it up all you want, its ultimately some woman's fault because she blah blah blah whatever nonsense you are about to type"

it's like you want us to put out a fire in the house, but black women are still pouring gasoline all over the place. i think we all understand it takes two to procreate, but at what point do you factor in the choices the woman makes? women go out here, fukk a nikka that's covered in tats, has no legal income, has several kids already; but somehow he's supposed to flip it and turn into barack obama just cus he got YOU pregnant. i mean thats all well and good in a perfect world, but in reality; the guy is going to keep doing him regardless. the women are producing these unwanted children purposely. once again, ~30 forms of birth control, y'all have NO reason getting pregnant by men who probably will hate you in 9 months -- and the crazy part, most dont even learn after the first kid. y'all repeat the same patterns several times with the same type of guys.

what happened to the days of women having standards? a man having to show he can support a family before you even let him inside you? black women dont want traditional family units, they want a baby and a check -- and later, an authoritarian fwhen the kids in their teen.

Only, and I mean only in the Black community is a man abandoning his children a simple fact of life to expected. And look at all the wonders this mentality has brought us. The next minute you will be lamenting the position of Black men This is what happens when you refuse to assign them even the smallest, most basic human responsibility, which is to take care of their own damn children.

oh, you mean those men that came from those big bad evil PATRIARCHIES? like i said, black women pick and choose when they want to hate the idea of a man running shyt.

and only in the black community are the worst type of men glorified amongst the women. black women will shyt on their best, while spreading for the nikkas that hate them --- then bytch to the other guys that they should somehow force the deadbeats to take care of their kids. and if not that, we should be mentoring their b*stard kids. it never ends

Accountability for your actions, as an individual and in the community at large. That includes everything from acknowledging and correcting your role in sexism in the community to taking care of your children and taking responsibility for where you choose to put your seed (or admonishing Black men who don't, rather than blaming Black women solely like some idiot who doesn't understand biology).

my opinion that boys need to be invested in more than the girls isn't sexism. i stated my reason, i stand by it. but i dont see why it matters when black women are being invested in more than the boys, and the entire race will continue to suffer because of it.

and once again, black women are making the choice to start a family. growing up fatherless fukks up a lot of black womans ability to pick a proper mate.

And when I say you I don't mean you specifically. I know you're beyond bitter and a hopeless case..

i get the same feeling from your post :todd:

 

[marcuz]

It would be nice if you actually attempted to be accurate in your claims or gracefully bowed out of this debate. Literally nothing you've typed in this thread thus far has any basis in reality. You would be hard pressed to even find a study that validated the foolishness you just typed.

like i said, look at all the other races; then go back the black race. you basically make the same amount.

 

[emoney]

what am i not addressing? and yes, i did say that about black boys. contrary to popular belief, a stronger male makes more a stronger community. you can give black women the all the money in the world and the black community will still be in a shyt position because women dont build.

Excellent point!

Women are not builders, never will be builders. They need accept that.

Just look at Oprah, a billionaire Black woman....what has she built for our race? How many employees does she even have? The two biggest people she put on were two white men (Dr Phil and Dr Oz).

 

[iBrowse]

lol, its always funny reading the first page then fast forwarding to the last page to see the dramatic thread turn.

Truth.com

 

[iBrowse]

2013 Black Feminism = Hate Black men & White women, ignore White men & watch Scandal.

 

[Vashti]

-



that doesn't sound like me at all and whats the point of wasting money on low budget fashion show that'll be forgotten the next day?


your father sounds like an incredible person, but whats your point? brooklyn is still a dump, ny in general is shytting on black folks while they're being gentrified down south.

how are we as black men, born in the 70s,80s, responsible for the failures of the generations before us? hell, society is already blaming 90s nikkas for failures of the black community. if you cant acknowledge white supremacy has severely crippled the black community far beyond any one mans reach, you're tap dancing to another tune. :ehh

You sound like such a defeatist.. Hell if the fashion show encourages even one little black girl to embrace her natural hair, then isnt that a win? And obviously it takes more than one person to repair the black community. Don't be glib. The point is what have you done as a black man to help?