Andrew Wiggins bringing his A-game to the Madison Square Garden tonight!

[Newzz]

Again, those percentages don't take into account help defense and game situation. Wiggins defends better players and needs less help than Clarkson does. If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't be saying this nonsense.

But you just sat there and claimed I said something that I never did (that Clarkson's a better defender than Wiggins), and when I respond back saying you're making shyt up basically, you disregard THAT and continue talking about some other shyt we already went over.....just like bytches do. Jill-Scott.

Don't know what you're talking about brehs.

Wiggins' DFG% was worse last season - 47% yet as the closest defender to these players he performed as follows -

Afflalo holding him to 40%
Butler holding him to 36%
Wade holding him to 41%
Kobe holding him to 31%
Klay holding him to 36%
Hayward holding him to 31%
Kawhi holding him to 33%
Batum holding him to 37%
DeRozan holding him to 33%
Parsons holding him to 40%
Gay holding him to 33%
George holding him to 44%

Again like total DFG%, these need to have the proper context applied as well.

Once again, disregard what I said (Clarkson is a weak defender, but yet holds the opponents he's guarding to a lower FG % than Wiggins does in 2016), and start talking about some other shyt from LAST SEASON which no one was talking about last year....just like bytches do. Jill Scott.

As a man-to-man wing defender he is. Since you don't watch games and have an agenda against my views, why don't we ask someone who you trust?

@Malta what do you think about Wiggins' man-to-man defense?

Once again, ask questions with words slightly changed which reconfigure the question to some other shyt....just like bytches do. Jill Scott.


The question isn't "what do you think about Wiggins man to man defense". You said Wiggins is already an elite defender


Your question to @Malta would be "Do you agree with me that Wiggins an elite defender already?"


And finally, quit tagging nikkas to back you up.......bytch you aint gon get no extra points pulling fakkit moves

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

But you just sat there and claimed I said something that I never did (that Clarkson's a better defender than Wiggins), and when I respond back saying you're making shyt up basically, you disregard THAT and continue talking about some other shyt we already went over.....just like bytches do. Jill-Scott.

Then why bring up DFG%?

This is the problem with you, you don't know how to use stats properly, you don't know how they're formulated and you don't know how to provide the proper context behind them. What's the point in saying Clarkson holds players to a lower FG% when it doesn't even begin to detail his and Wiggins' defensive ability? Seriously, what's the point?

Once again, disregard what I said (Clarkson is a weak defender, but yet holds the opponents he's guarding to a lower FG % than Wiggins does in 2016), and start talking about some other shyt from LAST SEASON which no one was talking about last year....just like bytches do. Jill Scott.

Please don't tell me you're this slow. Wiggins has only played 24 games this season, the reason I referenced the players he guarded last season because it gives a clearer picture on ALL the players he has defended (82 games) rather than just 24 games (which NBASavant doesn't currently have the stats for). Wiggins' DFG% was WORSE last season.Are you going to tell me that Wiggins isn't the same caliber of defender he was last season or some nonsense?

Again, we wouldn;t be having this season conversation if you watched him play. Be honest, how many full T'Wolves games have you seen this year and last season?

Once again, ask questions with words slightly changed which reconfigure the question to some other shyt....just like bytches do. Jill Scott.

Once again, don't watch games and act like you know what you're talking about by bringing up selective stats like a remedial ass nikka, @Newzz

The question isn't "what do you think about Wiggins man to man defense". You said Wiggins is already an elite defender


Your question to @Malta would be "Do you agree with me that Wiggins an elite defender already?"

I stated that he's "one of the best on-ball wing defenders in the league" - in that department he's elite. He isn't quite there on help defense at this point.

And finally, quit tagging nikkas to back you up.......bytch you aint gon get no extra points pulling fakkit moves

See now, this is the problem. If you didn't have an agenda against me and you actually watched games I wouldn't need to do this. I keep telling you to watch games (which you clearly don't) and don't use stats if you don't know how they're formulated and provide proper context but you continue not to listen. I mean how else can I make you see sense?

 

[We Ready]

But how's Melvin Gordon doing Eyestradamus?


AKA bigger Jamal Charles

 

[Malta]

@Malta what do you think about Wiggins' man-to-man defense?

One of the best young defenders in the league, the Wolves ask so much of him already and dudes are judging him like he's a finished product or a superstar. The fact I see Jordan Clarkson's defense being compared to his just tells me @Newzz doesn't actually watch him play, he recently put the clamps on Rudy Gay who was coming off 36pt game and had 2pts on 1-13 vs Wiggins in the next game.

He's ahead of where Paul George was in his 2nd season, and George was older

 

[LV Koopa]

Individual defense rating isn't a player's defense, it's the team's D-RTG with them on the court.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Individual defense rating isn't a player's defense, it's the team's D-RTG with them on the court.

@Newzz doesn;t understand something as rudimentary as that.

 

[Eye Cue DA COLI GAWD]

So Wiggins stans saying we can't take stats seriously. I wonder why

Oh that right, that's because the clown has no real elite stats in his favor outside of ability to get to the free throw line. But so did a prime Kevin Martin....

But let's get back to that clown poster saying Wiggins is an elite defender. Nikka please. There are no statistical values that show this. In fact the guy has regressed on defense, mainly due to him trying to leak out and get easy buckets he can't get in the half court.

Wiggins defensive advanced stats:

Defensive Win Shares (positive good, negative bad):
14-15: 0.3 (awful but at least it's positive lol)
15-16: 0.0 ( Towns currently got a 1.0 DWS as a rook)


Case closed.... DWS shows the effect an individual player has on D towards wins.... period.

Wiggins also sucks in steals, rebounds and assists. But that pretty obvious to tell.

The guy is not even in the top 2 of most talented players on his own team, and they suck right now.

What more you need to know?

 

[Eye Cue DA COLI GAWD]

Individual defense rating isn't a player's defense, it's the team's D-RTG with them on the court.

He plays 3/4 of the game. Great defensive players consistently effect the defense in a positive manner when on the court.

Average defensive players, like Wiggins, blend in and are more inconsequential than not to the final outcome of the game.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

So Wiggins stans saying we can't take stats seriously. I wonder why

Oh that right, that's because the clown has no real elite stats in his favor outside of ability to get to the free throw line. But so did a prime Kevin Martin....

But let's get back to that clown poster saying Wiggins is an elite defender. Nikka please. There are no statistical values that show this. In fact the guy has regressed on defense, mainly due to him trying to leak out and get easy buckets he can't get in the half court.

Wiggins defensive advanced stats:

Defensive Win Shares (positive good, negative bad):
14-15: 0.3 (awful but at least it's positive lol)
15-16: 0.0 ( Towns currently got a 1.0 DWS as a rook)


Case closed.... DWS shows the effect an individual player has on D towards wins.... period.

Wiggins also sucks in steals, rebounds and assists. But that pretty obvious to tell.

The guy is not even in the top 2 of most talented players on his own team, and they suck right now.

What more you need to know?

You truly are some special kind of dumb muhfukka. You don't use metrics to determine the defensive value/ability of a player.

Defensive Win Shares Are Completely Broken

As the flagship one metric stat of the popular website basketball-reference, win shares are heavily cited in the basketball world. Unfortunately, the stat is far from perfect, and the defensive side of the stat is particularly egregious. Defense is notoriously tricky to quantify, and win shares attempts this using the usual bevy of defensive box score stats like blocks and steals, but they also include the team's defensive rating. This means that Zach Randolph gets the same credit for defense Tony Allen and Marc Gasol do, ignoring the few defensive box score stats. The influence of team defense is huge on this stat. What's even more problematic is that it's used in the time before steals and blocks, and when defensive rebounds weren't tracked separately from total rebounds.

The best example of how the metric fails is with Ryan Anderson. Traded from the Magic, who with Howard were a perennial defensive team, to the Hornets, still reeling from tanking and poor decisions, what changed was his scenery, not his defensive skill. Obviously, motivation is important with defense, as is coaching, but his defensive rating tracks closely to this team's rating. 2012 was his breakout season, yet his defensive rating plummeted from 19th in the league, or nearly a 95th percentile, to almost exactly average. The table below has the full details where percentile is based on players that season with at least 500 minutes.

When people use defensive win shares, or win shares in general, they may not fully understand how it's calculated. This is the clearest way to illustrate that.

Need another example? Omer Asik was traded from the defensively dominant Chicago Bulls to the Houston Rockets, where he has to adjust for the mistakes from James Harden and a roster of rookies. Few people watching Asik this year would say he has dropped off significantly in defensive intensity or skill. However, the previous year his rating was 2nd and before that, his rookie season, he was 3rd. This season? 68th. The Rockets are a league average defensive team because of him; when he's off the court they're terrifyingly bad, yet win shares only sees a player who's a great defensive rebounder with some blocked shots on a mediocre defensive team.

You can see this with players traded midseason too: Tayshaun Prince went from a defensive rating of 111 to 103, effectively going from roughly one of the worst defenders in the league, roughly 10th percentile, to significantly above average. (And no, it's not effort: win shares only sees box score stats, as his defensive rebounding leveled off but his steals and blocks went up, but the major culprit to the change was Memphis' suffocating defense compared to Detroit's mess.)

Need a quick way to discredit the stat to someone? In 2013, DeJuan Blair was 7th in the league in defensive rating.

 

[Nick Barnes]

I think a lot of you guys are having unrealistic expectations for a 20 year old in his 2nd year.

I still think homie is gonna be a problem in a few years.

 

[El Bombi]

He's the next LeBron tho.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I think a lot of you guys are having unrealistic expectations for a 20 year old in his 2nd year.

I still think homie is gonna be a problem in a few years.

"A few years" is the operative word.

Remember, people were talking about this guy like he'd be the 3rd best player on an NBA champion team as a rookie.

They were calling him the next Lebron. (Lebron was averaging 27-7-7 in his 2nd year and he was a year younger than Wiggins is now.)

Or the Scottie to Lebron's Jordan.

Saying he'd be a lock-down defender on the perimeter right off the bat...the sort of guy who would be defending all-star guards in the late playoff rounds.

Maybe he'll develop like Paul George, maybe he'll develop like Kevin Martin. I think he'll be a consistent all-star eventually but not a superstar.

But we don't really know. The whole point is that he's not all that good right now, and due to the Kevin Love trade, right now is the main way he's going to measured for a little bit.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

@Eye Cue 182

Wiggins brought his A-game tonight. 32/10/6. Meanwhile Waiters still isn't doing shyt.

 

[LV Koopa]

lol Win Shares is fukking garbage

 

[Swagnificent]

He's the next LeBron tho.

Nah. He's Stretch Jordan.


I'm patenting that btw.