Ancestry DNA Matches from Africa - Are These Questions Ok to Ask Them or Nah?

BigMan

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I think the Nigerian DNA is grossly overstated in African Americans by these DNA companies and at this point those companies are basically engaging in confirmation bias, which is based upon them only going to Nigeria or Ghana to get samples and squeezing all of their customers into one of those two groups. Literally 559 of 23andme 717 samples from West Africa come from Ghana and Nigeria. I am not joking. It is right on their website:


West African
717

Nigerian
279
Nigerian, Yoruba, Esan
Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean
280
Ivorian, Ghanaian, Liberian, Mende, Temne, Limba, Sierra Leonean

The other 158 samples covers a huge region from Senegal, Gambia and Guinea.
Senegambian & Guinean
158

Gambian, Guinean, Bissau-Guinean, Mandenka, Senegalese


There is nothing for Mali or Burkina Faso. So basically 23andme is using 717 samples as proxy for 400 million people in West Africa. Meanwhile they have over 1,000 samples for England by itself. :comeon:

As bad as 23andme is; Ancestry.com is just a flat out joke at this point. I don't even know where they are getting their samples from, but their data is worse now then it was 10 years ago.

You should know that it is confirmation bias, because as I stated we don't even see any samples for places like Burkina Faso which was a major area that contributed slaves to the USA due to the annual tribute payments in slaves that the Dagomba people (and their relatives the Mamprussi and Mossi) had to pay to the Ashanti. There were also other groups there like the Hausa and various tribes from Niger and Ivory Coast that raided villages in Northern Ghana and Burkina Faso for people. That is why the modern governments of Ghana knows where many African Americans are from because they know who captured their ancestors and who sold them and they know who they sold those people to (the British).

I am inclined to believe that what these researchers are attributing as Nigerian DNA is likely from neighboring regions to the North and West (like Burkina Faso and Mali). The researchers are clearly just lumping them all together and calling it Nigeria, even though the people to the North and West were largely Fulani, Mande and Ga people that lived in and around Mali. If you a notice that in all of these updates as they get more samples from places like Togo and Benin; the Nigerian DNA is lessening in people and the Togo and Benin results are growing which shows that they are slowly getting more samples from the Northern and western regions. I am positive that if more samples are gotten from regions like Burkina Faso, Northern Ghana, Northern Ivory Coast, Mali and then areas along the rice coast; that we are going to see an even more dramatic shift for African Americans towards the West, especially if the samples come from Mande and Fulani groups in those regions.

On a side note if you look at charts of where people were brought from then you would see that Nigeria was not a major area for the USA, because initially America was growing specialized crops like rice. That meant that America would have to take slaves from specialized groups along the Rice Coast, which is that area a between Senegal to Liberia and over into neighboring Ivory Coast. Oddly enough that is exactly where slaving records stated that most of the slaves originated from specifically places like Sierra Leone, Liberia, Gambia, Guinea and Senegal. Congo was another area that they took quite a few slaves from, because they were mixing people in the USA to lessen the likelihood of slave revolts. In any event most African Americans ancestors came to the USA between 1720-1780. So the groups were already in place and historical records were very clear on that. To make things even clearer. The USA likely received only 4 percent of all slaves. So very few people actually came to the USA and then they basically stopped importing people from Africa in early 1800. Culturally it is pretty clear where African Americans are predominantly from, because they exhibit a blues based musical tradition and their Christian churches have very strong underlying Islamic influences which is what you would expect from people that lived along the Rice Coast in modern day Burkina Faso and Northern Ghana.

Some Nigerians did come to the USA, but not in nearly the numbers that people keep overstating. Most Nigerians were taken to the Caribbean and South America, which is shown by their cultural impact in places like Cuba. What we now call Nigeria did not enter wholesale slaving until after the mid to late 1700s mostly through the Oyo people, Aro Confederacy and the Islamic leader Usman Dan Fodio. Due to unreported slave revolts like the Stono Rebellion in South Carolina, the USA had by and large stop taking slaves directly from Africa when the Nigerians were just kicking into full drive. So Nigerian DNA results look to be grossly overstated in African American by 23andme and Ancestry.com. I have slowly come to the realization that African Ancestry results are probably the most accurate, simply because they have more samples. Like I stated I don't know if they can pinpoint a specific tribe within an ethnic group, but I think that they identify the correct overall ethnic group.
two points: i could be wrong by i believe ancestrydna has more african samples than 23andme

and second, all i'm saying is the Nigerian input, while possible overrated, is not small. There is plenty of documented evidence of Nigerian groups brough to the US, specifically in the Maryland/Virginia and Louisiana.

Another point, is that culture doesn't necessarily dictate the genetic origins of people. For example, the biggest culture I put in Afro-Jamaican culture is the Akan peoples because they were brought firsts and created a creolized culture than slaves from various parts of Africa then adopted. But after the maroon wars/various revolts, the British started bringing more people from modern day Nigeria and Central Africa so genetically Jamaicans are not as Akan as the culture suggests.

edit:
g16e02mntob31.jpg
Seen here you can that people from bight of Biafra and night of Benin were not uncommon so I would completely discounT “Nigerian“ origins.
 
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Samori Toure

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two points: i could be wrong by i believe ancestrydna has more african samples than 23andme

and second, all i'm saying is the Nigerian input, while possible overrated, is not small. There is plenty of documented evidence of Nigerian groups brough to the US, specifically in the Maryland/Virginia and Louisiana.

Another point, is that culture doesn't necessarily dictate the genetic origins of people.

Ancestry has more African samples than 23andme, but that is not saying much if you are not sampling populations in modern day countries that African Americans are known to be descended from. Therefore these companies use substitute or proxy populations for the missing populations which in this case is clearly Nigeria, Togo and Benin. Here are the populations Ancestry tests. Notice that there are 2,701 African samples, but only 1,745 are for West Africa and none of them cover Sierra Leone, Burkina Faso, Liberia, Gambia or Guinea, which were all hot spots of the slave trade for African American ancestors. You can go to Bunce Island right now in Sierra Leone and realize why Ancestry.com and 23andme testing reference panel is significantly flawed, because almost all the people transported from there as slaves were almost exclusively sent to North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida:

Building a Reference Panel
The current AncestryDNA reference panel has 44,703 DNA samples that divide the world into 70 overlapping regions and groups.
EV2019WorldMap.png

Here is the breakdown of how many individuals are in each of the 70 regions:

Region Number of Samples
Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander 24
Baltics 195
Basque 31
Benin & Togo 466
Burusho 23
Cameroon, Congo & Western Bantu Peoples 533
Central Asia-South 383
Indigenous Cuba 3,420
Cyprus 161
Dai 65
Eastern Bantu Peoples 138
Eastern Europe and Russia 1,084
Eastern Polynesia & New Zealand Maori 188
England & Northwestern Europe 1,326
Ethiopia & Eritrea 85
European Jewish 448
Finland 402
France 1,754
Germanic Europe 2,095
Greece & Albania 405
Guam 57
Indigenous Americas-Andes 139
Indigenous Americas-Central 1,232
Indigenous Americas–Colombia & Venezuela 2,500
Indigenous Americas-Mexico 720
Indigenous Americas-North 2,284
Indigenous Americas-Yucatan 156
Indigenous Arctic 36
Indigenous Eastern South America 2,873
Indigenous Haiti & Dominican Republic 2,858
Indigenous Puerto Rico 4,791
Iran / Persia 627
Ireland 732
Ivory Coast & Ghana 236
Khoisan, Aka & Mbuti Peoples 38
Korea 197
Mali 408
Malta 106
Melanesia 50
Middle East 466
Mongolia & Central Asia-North 229
Nigeria 521
Northern Africa 123

Northern Asia 43
Northern China 251
Northern India 514
Northern Italy 554
Northern Japan 150
Northern Philippines 150
Norway 642
Portugal 713
Samoa 76
Sardinia 38
Scotland 1,411
Senegal 114
Somalia 32
Southeast Asia 240
Southern Bantu Peoples 162
Southern China 298
Southern India 169
Southern Italy 971
Southern Japanese Islands 42
Southern Philippines 124
Spain 637
Sweden 740
The Balkans 824
Tonga 94
Turkey & the Caucasus 393
Vietnam 236
Wales 480
Total 44,703

Bunce-Island.jpg


Bunce-Island-Sign.jpg


Btw, I am not stating that Nigeria was not a place that the slaves came from. I am stating that Nigeria is completely overstated in African American DNA population groups. Benin and Togo is completely overstated, which shows that these are clearly proxy populations for places like Burkina Faso, Sierra Leone, Liberia, etc. My assumption is that the Yoruba and Igbo DNA looks similar to the other forest belt people that live in Sierra Leone and Liberia like the Limba, Kru, etc.; which makes the Nigeria forest belt people the proxy. I am not even sure Ancestry.com and 23andme know that there is a difference between the Sahelian populations and the forest belt population, which is probably why such a small area like Togo and Benin is producing such weird population outcomes. In closing both of these companies results are looking more and more comical, because they are clearly not testing reference panel populations they need in order to confidently identify African American populations.
 
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Samori Toure

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Nigerian input in ADOS is NOT uncommon; it's just lower than the Senegambian/Mande/Griot Africa + Bantu, input


slave-trade-madagascar.jpg

That graph you have is great and I will add these, because they add context to people stating that Nigerian populations are way over represented among African Americans. Senegambia and neighboring Sierra Leone and the Windward coast accounted for roughly 40-41 percent of all slaves to the United States, yet Ancestry.com and 23andme testing in those areas is pathetic. Conversely, the slaves from the Bight of Biafra are the third most shipped group to the USA, but its needs to be stated that the Igbo slaves were not the only people shipped from Biafra, because slaves from the modern day Cameroon were also shipped from there or most notable the slave forts like Bimbia; wherein slaves from the Bamoun, Bamileke and Tikar people were the largest group sold from that area.

Trade from the Bight of Benin is almost nonexistent among American slave traders so why are the Yoruba so over represented in the referecne panels when testing African Americans? Meanwhile the slave trade on the Gold Coast was huge; which aligns with the slaving records detailing the Dagomba wars in Northern Ghana and Burkina Faso and the subsequent sale of the war captives by the Ashanti. So why are the Mande and Fulani people who were overwhelmingly captured in those wars in Northern Ghana and Burkina Faso so under represented in the population testing for African Americans? And we know that African American population growth in America was due mostly to reproduction of the existing slaves, rather the constant importation of new slaves. So there were not a whole lot of new ethnic groups added that would have changed the composition of the existing ethnic groups.

Hopefully this explains why Ancestry.com and 23andme population reference panels need a lot of work, before they can be relied upon for actual ancestry testing results.

485712.jpg



columbian-exchange-andtriangulartrade-26-728.jpg
 
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IllmaticDelta

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Btw, I am not stating that Nigeria was not a place that the slaves came from. I am stating that Nigeria is completely overstated in African American DNA population groups. Benin and Togo is completely overstated, which shows that these are clearly proxy populations for places like Burkina Faso, Sierra Leone, Liberia, etc. My assumption is that the Yoruba and Igbo DNA looks similar to the other forest belt people that live in Sierra Leone and Liberia like the Limba, Kru, etc.; which makes the Nigeria forest belt people the proxy. I am not even sure Ancestry.com and 23andme know that there is a difference between the Sahelian populations and the forest belt population, which is probably why such a small area like Togo and Benin is producing such weird population outcomes. In closing both of these companies results are looking more and more comical, because they are clearly not testing reference panel populations they need in order to confidently identify African American populations.

yeah, I remember arguing with some Yourba poster on here before that Bight Of Benin is basically a non-factor in ADOS (Louisiana + Alabama being the exception) when he brought up the genetics claiming Yoruban ancestry was significant in America. I mentioned that Igbo and Yoruba must have similar looking genetics but that the real difference was in culture


compil-ng-3x.jpg


All three results show a predominant “Nigeria” amount. Indicative of a high degree of shared origins for Nigerians, regardless of ethnic background. Then again there is a major distinction between Hausa-Fulani and southern Nigerian results because of in particular the additional “Senegal” score and absence of “Benin/Togo” & “Cameroon/Congo”. Overlap between Yoruba and Igbo results is much greater but still going by proportional shares for in particular “Cameroon/Congo” still some minor differentiation can be detected.


  • Hausa-Fulani can clearly be distinguished from both Igbo & Yoruba because of their considerable “Senegal” scores (min. 15% – max. 35%). Which are practically unique to them (in this 3-way comparison). And in fact the same goes also for their “Africa North”, “Middle East” and “Southeastern Bantu” scores. To be explained in the first place as a reflection of the (partial) Fula origins of my Hausa-Fulani survey group. But also more ancient ancestral connections with Chadic/Nilo-Saharan speakers to the east.
  • The Igbo and Yoruba, combined being southern Nigerians, can clearly be distinguished from the Hausa-Fulani because of their additional regions “Benin/Togo” and to a lesser degree “Cameroon/Congo”. Which are practically absent or negligible for my Hausa-Fulani survey group (on average). Merely speculating but perhaps to be explained by an ancient split-of between northern and southern Nigerians. Only afterwards giving rise to outgoing migrations, departing from southern Nigeria into Benin and beyond by the early ancestors of Gbe/Kwa speakers. And eastwards to Central & Southern Africa by Bantu speakers. Resulting in genetic similarity being picked up for southern Nigerians by way of so-called “Benin/Togo” and “Cameroon/Congo” proxies but not so for northern Nigerians.
  • The Igbo can be distinguished from the Yoruba when going by more pronounced “Cameroon/Congo” scores and relatively less significant “Benin/Togo” scores. Even when in fact for both groups “Benin/Togo” is their main secondary component. But the Igbo have greater maximum scores for “Cameroon/Congo” (34%) while also the difference in median scores is statistically significant (12% vs. 3% for Yoruba). On the other hand among Yoruba it was much more frequently seen that “Benin/Togo” ended up in first place (7/18). And again the difference in group averages is quite big (36% versus 20% for Igbo). Presumably to be explained by geography in the first place. The Igbo being closer to Cameroon. While Yorubaland is bordering and even extending into Benin! But probably also an indication of different paths of ethnogenesis taken after leaving their assumed common place of origin somewhere around the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers.
 

Samori Toure

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yeah, I remember arguing with some Yourba poster on here before that Bight Of Benin is basically a non-factor in ADOS (Louisiana + Alabama being the exception) when he brought up the genetics claiming Yoruban ancestry was significant in America. I mentioned that Igbo and Yoruba must have similar looking genetics but that the real difference was in culture


compil-ng-3x.jpg


All three results show a predominant “Nigeria” amount. Indicative of a high degree of shared origins for Nigerians, regardless of ethnic background. Then again there is a major distinction between Hausa-Fulani and southern Nigerian results because of in particular the additional “Senegal” score and absence of “Benin/Togo” & “Cameroon/Congo”. Overlap between Yoruba and Igbo results is much greater but still going by proportional shares for in particular “Cameroon/Congo” still some minor differentiation can be detected.





    • Hausa-Fulani can clearly be distinguished from both Igbo & Yoruba because of their considerable “Senegal” scores (min. 15% – max. 35%). Which are practically unique to them (in this 3-way comparison). And in fact the same goes also for their “Africa North”, “Middle East” and “Southeastern Bantu” scores. To be explained in the first place as a reflection of the (partial) Fula origins of my Hausa-Fulani survey group. But also more ancient ancestral connections with Chadic/Nilo-Saharan speakers to the east.



    • The Igbo and Yoruba, combined being southern Nigerians, can clearly be distinguished from the Hausa-Fulani because of their additional regions “Benin/Togo” and to a lesser degree “Cameroon/Congo”. Which are practically absent or negligible for my Hausa-Fulani survey group (on average). Merely speculating but perhaps to be explained by an ancient split-of between northern and southern Nigerians. Only afterwards giving rise to outgoing migrations, departing from southern Nigeria into Benin and beyond by the early ancestors of Gbe/Kwa speakers. And eastwards to Central & Southern Africa by Bantu speakers. Resulting in genetic similarity being picked up for southern Nigerians by way of so-called “Benin/Togo” and “Cameroon/Congo” proxies but not so for northern Nigerians.



    • The Igbo can be distinguished from the Yoruba when going by more pronounced “Cameroon/Congo” scores and relatively less significant “Benin/Togo” scores. Even when in fact for both groups “Benin/Togo” is their main secondary component. But the Igbo have greater maximum scores for “Cameroon/Congo” (34%) while also the difference in median scores is statistically significant (12% vs. 3% for Yoruba). On the other hand among Yoruba it was much more frequently seen that “Benin/Togo” ended up in first place (7/18). And again the difference in group averages is quite big (36% versus 20% for Igbo). Presumably to be explained by geography in the first place. The Igbo being closer to Cameroon. While Yorubaland is bordering and even extending into Benin! But probably also an indication of different paths of ethnogenesis taken after leaving their assumed common place of origin somewhere around the confluence of the Niger and Benue rivers.

Togo Benin results are not just Nigeria and Ghana as these testing companies keep implying. That is where these research companies are doing a great disservice to the public that buys their test kits. Results for Togo and Benin is likely a greater indicator of the populations to the North like Burkina Faso and Northern Ghana. If the Togo and Benin results were just basically Nigeria and Ghana forest belt people as these testers are implying then it would not be distinguishable from the other Forest Belt people in Nigeria and Ghana. Since it is distinguishable then it is clearly different DNA.

7431E5DC73F94A868525705B004BB6CD-icrc_PRG_civ010705.jpg


I think the Benin Togo results point to the northern parts of Benin, Togo, Ghana and Ivory Coast. They area are basically Sahelian Muslim populations. When coupled with Mali, Niger and northern Nigeria that whole area produced a lot of slaves yet it is underrepresented by DNA testing companies samples.
 

Samori Toure

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I just saw my updated results
119474217_10102500375285392_6282846890227991080_o.jpg


I was a little surprised to see Sweden and Cyprus thrown in there since they had little to do with the transatlantic slave trade. So you guys are saving that the Nigerian percentage is overblown that that should belong to Ghana, Mali and Sierra Leone?

It should definitely be more towards modern day Burkina Faso and Northern and Central Ghana. The modern countries of Mali, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Guinea and Senegal should also have large percentages among African Americans.

These testing companies are just not getting samples out of those regions. Burkina Faso is an easy region to figure out due to the Dagomba people having to pay a yearly tribute in slaves to the Ashanti. The Ashanti in turn sold those captured people as slaves to the English from the dungeons on the Gold Coast. That does not even include other people that became slavers in that area.

"...In 1723 Opoku Ware led-Asante Army defeated the Bono and Dagomba Kingdoms burning the latter capital Yendi. The British consul at Kumasi in 1827, M. J. Dupuis, records in his “Journal a Residence in Ashantee” that the Dagomba capital Yendi and other large towns of the country paid to Ashantee an annual tribute of 500 slaves, 200 cows, 400 sheep and cloths and that smaller towns are taxed in proportion. In 1732, Dr Claridge named Opoku Ware as the Conqueror of Dagomba in his “History of the Gold Coast and Ashanti”. Moreover Gbunja, a Muslim Chronicler recorded in February 1745 that “the Cursed Unbeliever, Opoku Ware entered the town of Yendi and Plundered it”. All these enlisted the defeat of Dagomba by King Opoku Ware which is been disputed by Dagbon state... "


Asante History; Akyem Abuakwa And Dagomba Wars—Part 1
Asante History; Akyem Abuakwa And Dagomba Wars.
 

BigMan

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can some one link the thread for domestic migration; i had a question about MS to FL connection...
 

IllmaticDelta

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On ancestry, why am I seeing many ADOS (from the south) with north american-mexican indigenous rather than indigenous-north?:dahell:
 

IllmaticDelta

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Looking at the additional communities segment, Im wondering how do they figure a generic area of Mid Atlantic Coast ADOS vs let's say, something more specific to Virginia, North Carolina, Delaware, DC etc....when their Mid Atlantic Coast grouping covers all those regions?


E7EStig.png
 
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