IllmaticDelta

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Aisha Tyler

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is from one of these families






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James Monroe Gregory (January 23, 1849 – December 17, 1915)






his son below


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Thomas Montgomery Gregory (August 31, 1887 – November 21, 1971)



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Charles Drew was his uncle



Charles Richard Drew (June 3, 1904 – April 1, 1950)



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Hugh Hancock



They're also connected to the Booker T Washington fam:ohhh:

@Dorian Gray
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Booker Taliaferro Washington, Jr. (top left)


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Nettie Blair Washington (Hancock) was his wife

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Their child was

Nettie Hancock Douglass (Washington)

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Her sister was


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Hugh Ella Gregory (Hancock)

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whose husband was


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Thomas Montgomery Gregory (top middle)

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invalid

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The author of Black Gotham made a related observation about the specific Black community that formed in 19th century NYC.
She detailed the various racial and ethnic groups that the patriarchs and matriarchs of the families were from. There was passage about the 3 early land/property owning families at the center of the community.

If a white writer does a better job at depicting the black elite than black writers and producers, I think I’m gonna be done..

:dead:





 
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get these nets

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If a white writer does a better job at depicting the black elite than black writers and producers, I think I’m gonna be done..

:dead:







Thanks. I might be done, too. Hehehe
Never watched Downton Abbey, but I'm interested in this show set in New York.

I used to think that the entertainment industry under estimated and miscalculated the type of Black themed projects that Black audiences + others would support.
Not sure if I still believe that.

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Here is a brief segment from a lecture by Mrs. Peterson. This character from The Gilded Age would have come from the circle she describes here + the connection to the white characters.

 
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invalid

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Thanks. I might be done, too. Hehehe
Never watched Downton Abbey, but I'm interested in this show set in New York.

I used to think that the entertainment industry under estimated and miscalculated the type of Black themed projects that Black audiences + others would support.
Not sure if I still believe that.

This goes back to our discussion about the Madame CJ Walker movie. Downton Abbey had a large black viewership which is why Julian Fellowes wanted to address some of the criticism in this new series around race. The white establishment in America and in England has long known about the black establishment because they have bumped up against the black establishment in some form or another either through charitable work or literary societies.

Downton Abbey and other period pieces have been hugely successful because there is a large demographic already into history.

So there is no need to try to make a period piece ‘hip‘ to appeal to a younger audience because they’re not really the demographic that’s going to be into this stuff either way.

Bundles should have remained true to the time and would have found both a black and white audience that would have appreciated it.
 

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The Van Salee descendants include the Vanderbilts, Astors, and many of the old money New York Knickerbocker families that took over the Upper East Side. Even Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis is a descendant and many attribute her ‘exotic’ look to being a descendant of the Van Salees.

I am a direct descendant of a Van Pelt from a union that happened in Ohio. That Van Pelt branch traces back to Knickerbocker New York and connects with the Vanderbilts and other Dutch Knickerbocker family.

The union in Ohio came so out of left field. I tried connecting with a white Van Pelt from that branch to possibly get some more information. They didn’t want to talk to me. :mjpls:
Interesting. Thanks

The Black Gotham book has moved up the different category book charts since the Downton producer shouted it out. By a LOT. Happy for the author. It's a great book.
Going to try to follow the series, they chose a great theme to base the storyline on. Old money vs New money conflicts.

When the storyline of the OKOP series was revealed, we laughed and cringed. I said that they should have had Yaya's character play a super rich new money type, like a tech entrepreneur. The script could have explored new vs old dynamic and still be relatable to different members of the audience.

I went to middle school with two unrelated Black Van Pelts. Only two people I've ever met with that last name. Small world.

About the last part, I think I remember that you said that people from other branches from your family tree have connected and bonded with white relatives. From what you know, do more of these scenarios turn out like the Van Pelt one, or the other way?

Speaking of which, the lady from the "Macaroni Pie comes to America" segment of HOTH released a book about this topic last Fall.

5 minute excerpt from the audiobook
 
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The Black Gotham book has moved up the different category book charts since the Downton producer shouted it out. By a LOT.

From where did it move? And where is at now? I tried looking but couldn’t find it on any book charts.

About the last part, I think I remember that you said that people from other branches from your family tree have connected and bonded with white relatives. From what you know, do more of these scenarios turn out like the Van Pelt one, or the other way?

I think it can turn out either way. The union with the Van Pelt was not a master/slave union but a consensual union that happened in the 1820’s in Ohio. That may be a harder pill to swallow because there was not the institution of slavery that would have brought these two people in proximity to one another. It means that black people were integrated with white people socially and were, at least on paper, on an equal footing. A lot of white people may be reluctant to acknowledge this.

The two branches where the white family acknowledges the black side were from master/slave unions. One of the branches, that goes back to an old prominent German Atlanta family, was acknowledged back in the 60’s. My great grandfather and his brothers were invited to the white family reunion during that time. They were acknowledged, given family history books, pictures, and given papers about his father during the time that he was enslaved, who was the mulatto offspring of the patriarch.

Beside the white family having genealogist who did research, there was probably long-time whispers on that side of the family as well. It was also that, the family name from that side is a unique German name, it only comes from their family, and it probably became noticeable to the white family, that a black family, with the same name, had become very prominent in Atlanta too, in the same industry as theirs. Banking.

There were too many coincidences. White side probably thought that it would be better to acknowledge them than to act like they didn’t exist.

Beside us knowing that we were descendants of the slave owner, the white side, not having any official evidence, put two and two together having noticed the large amount of land that was given to my ancestor at his emancipation, and receipts from the patriarch paying for his education at Atlanta University, now the merged Clark Atlanta.

Today, DNA testing has 100% proved the relationship.

My mulatto ancestor built his own family cemetery for his descendants called Green Grove. And his descendants are buried there, never wanting to have been buried with the white side.

My ancestor actually hated white people and passed that hatred down to his descendants. Which is why it was curious that my great grandfather had went to attend the white reunion in Atlanta. He fled to Chicago from Atlanta in 1915 after killing a white man.

The land that his father was given by his white grandfather was on the opposite side of Atlanta from the white side of the family. The black side had originally wanted to remain on opposite sides of the city. But again, the black side became very prominent in their own right and found themselves running into their white family members at different functions. Today, the black side is one of the vaunted black business families of Atlanta and were mentioned in the Atlanta section of OKOP. Actually, my only direct family mentioned in that book.

5 minute excerpt from the audiobook

I didn’t know they were still beefing over this. DNA testing had proven their relationship back in the 90’s I believe.
 
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get these nets

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@Dorian Gray
Thanks for the details. Interesting and candid, as always. Your last post can be a separate thread.
Your point about Whites' reluctance acknowledging Blacks that they have proximity/ties to is a great one and ties into another post in this thread.

What you said about equal footing on paper was a good point.. That certain Black people were able to succeed and thrive in legal and social settings that worked against their progress, points to them being in fact superior to the whites who succeeded with no such restrictions in place. I've always felt that whites hold a special resentment towards successful Blacks because of that, subconsciously.


I checked the Amazon page last week when you posted the DA director mentioning the author, since then the kindle and paperback editions have moved way up in the categories they're listed under. Currently at
Not bad for a ten year old book. Film and tv critics and other influencers have picked it up because of the mention by that Brit. From the time the Gilded Age season ends, until the end of the Summer, I can imagine that many of the Black viewers of DA/GA will pick up the book.
They might release a new edition and Dr. Peterson might go on another lecture tour.

Ms. Jessup White picked a right time to release the book. With statues coming down, legacies being questioned, Thomas Jefferson is a hot button topic again. I think their extended family issues have been resolved, but that case makes her story especially relevant in this racial reckoning era we're in.
 
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IllmaticDelta

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The Van Salee descendants include the Vanderbilts, Astors, and many of the old money New York Knickerbocker families that took over the Upper East Side. Even Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis is a descendant and many attribute her ‘exotic’ look to being a descendant of the Van Salees.

I am a direct descendant of a Van Pelt from a union that happened in Ohio. That Van Pelt branch traces back to Knickerbocker New York and connects with the Vanderbilts and other Dutch Knickerbocker family.

The union in Ohio came so out of left field. I tried connecting with a white Van Pelt from that branch to possibly get some more information. They didn’t want to talk to me. :mjpls:


One of the founder of Boule is/was a relative by marriage

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EDWIN CLARENCE JOSEPH TURPIN HOWARD (1846-1912)



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his sister

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a direct descendant of the Van salees was


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he was an inventor




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his grandfather was



 

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One of the founder of Boule is/was a relative by marriage




EDWIN CLARENCE JOSEPH TURPIN HOWARD (1846-1912)




Damn, that Van Salee Degrasse blood ain’t nothing to play with.:wow:

I’ve been trying to see if there is a link to Neil Degrasse Tyson?

a direct descendant of the Van salees was




he was an inventor




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his grandfather was

@Get These Nets Here is a link to the “Oyster King of New York” Thomas Downing spotlighted in the HOTH doc you dropped.
 
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Well, not exactly......
A’lelia Walker married three times but was not able to bear children. Her daughter, Mae Walker Perry, was adopted.

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Mae Walker Perry’s only daughter was A’lelia Mae Perry Bundles, who is A’lelia Bundle’s mother. This is her with her husband - S. Henry Bundles.

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Legacy Is at the Root of This New Scalp-Centric Hair Line
Madam C.J. Walker’s great-great-granddaughter is ushering her hero product into a new era


What does legacy mean to the team behind Madam by Madam C.J. Walker? In essence, it’s everything. For journalist and historian A’Lelia Bundles, helping to build a beauty startup is basically joining the family business. As the great-great-granddaughter of Madam C.J. Walker, a career in beauty was always peeking on the periphery, even as she followed other career paths. “I grew up in a household where my mother was vice president of the original Madam C.J. Walker Manufacturing Company and my dad was president of another Black hair company called Summit Laboratories,” she tells Coveteur.

Madam Walker’s story is well worth telling. Today, she’s known as the early-20th-century beauty juggernaut who spun hair-care products into gold at a time when products tailored to Black women were particularly scarce. By the time of her death in 1919, she was the first American woman to achieve self-made millionaire status. This sets the scene for Bundles’ seminal 2001 biography on Madam Walker, On Her Own Ground. Now, alongside Sundial Brands (the company behind Shea Moisture) and Walmart, she’s helping to write a new chapter of Madam Walker’s legacy with Madam, an 11-product scalp-centric hair-care line geared toward coarse and curly textures.

How did your partnership come to be?

Cara Sabin: “As we sat down to brainstorm what this line would be, A’Lelia had sent us a wealth of information: articles, historic ads, and a treasure trove of history on Madam C.J. Walker and her legacy. A’Lelia’s a historian, so it was really rich information and we were immediately drawn to the Wonderful Hair Grower, which is really the iconic product [from Madam C.J. Walker’s initial line]. When we started to build out the line, that was the crown jewel. From there, we took cues from a lot of her original formulations, which paid a lot of attention to the health of the scalp. We didn’t see anything in the market that was addressing textured hair’s scalp care, so that was the initial impetus.”

A’Lelia Bundles: “Cara really tapped into Madam Walker’s core mission from the beginning, and because Cara has such an extensive background from working in the beauty industry, she totally got a way to differentiate this line from everything else that’s on the market by looking at the scalp, healthy hair, and ways that give women styling versatility. We’re putting all those things together with new science, technology, and innovation, so this is a really revolutionary line of products that takes Madam Walker’s original idea of healthy scalp and hairstyling versatility and adds 100 years of research and development.”

How are the self-care philosophies that Madam Walker evangelized woven into the brand’s DNA?

AB: “When she was starting, she realized that there weren’t many commercially available products for Black women. She was also trying to solve some of her own issues—she was having problems with dandruff and scalp infections, so she knew that she couldn’t have healthy hair unless she had a healthy scalp. That’s directly related to the products and formulas now. She knew that women not only wanted products that worked, but they wanted to feel empowered and confident about the rest of their lives.”

CS: “At Sundial, we talk a lot about legacy, and our mission to create generational wealth, so imbued in the way we operate is this great respect and care for legacy. In this instance, it was obviously the legacy of Madam C.J. Walker, with A’Lelia’s very generous time and brainpower. But even the legacy of the Dennis family, who founded Sundial Brands. So for me, this was exciting to bring to life because of the importance that Madam Walker has in our lives and in history, not only for Black people but for Americans. It felt like we were doing something really, really important.”

How has this changed what legacy means to you?

AB: “I grew up in the hair business, but my passion was writing, so I’ve been able to take those skills that I learned as a journalist and tell Madam Walker’s story. It has evolved this last year as we’ve been creating this line because I felt like I had a partner who got what I was trying to tell on the written page and could translate that into products that would be attractive to women.”

CS: “My grandmother, who has since passed away, was a writer as well. She took meticulous notes, kept photos, and was a historian of our family’s legacy. So, I could really connect to A’Lelia’s great love and care for legacy and her attention to detail. If you know anyone who is a historian, you know you have to get the facts right and you have to do them justice.”

Why do you think that Madam C.J. Walker’s story is still so resonant?

AB: “I think that it’s her perseverance, her courage, and her belief in herself. She said, ‘I got my start by giving myself a start.’ But the beauty of it, for me, is that she had been mentored by other women and then she was able to mentor other women in turn.”
 
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