Amazigh Berber chick takes a DNA test

[AndroidHero]

The Kemetians depicted Berber tribes as appearing pale in skin tone. (See my Peopling of Africa thread in the Root).

Berbers are probably a mix of Afro-Asiatics from East Africa and pre-existing Stone Age populations.

They also have more recent west African.

Here in the USA she would almost easily pass for a biracial. Hell I first thought she was until I heard her accent. So yes. But what I really meant is that Northwest African Berbers don't see themselves as clustering with other Africans. When ironically almost half if not all their paternal DNA comes from East Africa. But also they are intermediate between Sahelian Africans and Europeans.

And I doubt she is 20% to 25% but more 40% to 45%.

Hmm, she really doesn't look biracial, and Berbers largely cluster with other west asian populations rather than being intermediate, and I'm talking about kabyle berbers here rather than other berbers with more african ancestry like the tuareg.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Hmm, she really doesn't look biracial, and Berbers largely cluster with other west asian populations rather than being intermediate, and I'm talking about kabyle berbers here rather than other berbers with more african ancestry like the tuareg.

I'm talking about Berbers as a whole. Kaybyle Berbers are mostly European. When you look at the genetic construction of Berbers they mostly cluster with Europeans and Africans more so than West Asians. Northwest Africans are NOT intermediate with West Asians like Egyptians are. @Karbaash can expand on this one.

And speaking of Tuaregs. If I remember correctly they carry ancestral paternal Berber lineages. And she does look biracial.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

They also depicted them as black. The ones you're referring to were late comers. And those "pre-existing Stone Age populations" were not pale but most likely the same complexion as Khoisans.

Do you have any depiction of Black Berbers by Kemetians? I haven't seen any before. Also, do you have any sources for the skin colour of pre-existing stone age populations?

I surmised that since Afro-Asiatics coming from East Africa would be dark in skin-tone, perhaps the stone-age populations in pre-historic North Africa were lighter? As to how light, I am unsure.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Do you have any depiction of Black Berbers by Kemetians? I haven't seen any before.

I have many. You never of the 22nd and 23rd dynasties?

Also, do you have any sources for the skin colour of pre-existing stone age populations?

I have sources that state that they clustered more with modern Africans when it came to phenotype.

Note how DISTANT not only neotlithic Algerians but also Mediterraneans in GENERAL are from their modern counterparts in terms of phenotype. They lean more towards Africans like Northeast Africans.

I surmised that since Afro-Asiatics coming from East Africa would be dark in skin-tone, perhaps the stone-age populations in pre-historic North Africa were lighter? As to how light, I am unsure.

Skin color is difficult to tell. But the Maghreb and South Africa's climates are very similar and so we can speculate the skin tone would be similar to Khoisans.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

I have many. You never of the 22nd and 23rd dynasties?

I have sources that state that they clustered more with modern Africans when it came to phenotype.

Note how DISTANT not only neotlithic Algerians but also Mediterraneans in GENERAL are from their modern counterparts in terms of phenotype. They lean more towards Africans like Northeast Africans.



Skin color is difficult to tell. But the Maghreb and South Africa's climates are very similar and so we can speculate the skin tone would be similar to Khoisans.

I got a lot of questions. Bear with me.

- I've heard of the 'Libyan' dynasties but I've never seen images of them. Thank you. Does this mean that some 'Libyan' Berbers were mixed with the ancestral populations of the Green Sahara?

- the Natufian being so closed to the Niger-Congo branch indicates to me that they were part of the same migrations after the Sahara dried up.

- Why does Niger-Congo and Natufian branch out of pre-historic North-East Africa in the clusters?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I got a lot of questions. Bear with me.

- I've heard of the 'Libyan' dynasties but I've never seen images of them. Thank you. Does this mean that some 'Libyan' Berbers were mixed with the ancestral populations of the Green Sahara?

You welcome. And yes that would be the case. Berbers WERE apart of the Green Sahara when they migrated from East Africa. I'm talking about proto-Berbers and the the prehistoric Maghreb population. IMO the Libyan dynasty would have been similar to Siwa Berbers. Anyways, I am hearing from people MORE knowlegable than me on this on other forums that Siwa Berbers actually the "TRUE Berber linages" i.e E-M35. Me and others always thought Siwa Berbers weren't "true" Berbers because they do not carry "Berber marker" E-M81. But what people have told me is that E-M81 did not migrate into the Maghreb from the Nile Valley but that it mutated from E-M35. But E-M81 does have East African ancestry. I think Tuaregs represent the earliest split from E-M35 which is why they cluster so close to Northeast Africans like the Beja!

So all in all the Libyan dynasty would have been similar to Nile Valley Berbers like the Siwa.

Anyways here is another image of an ancient Libyan.

- the Natufian being so closed to the Niger-Congo branch indicates to me that they were part of the same migrations after the Sahara dried up.

Its only talking in terms of phenotype. In terms of paternal DNA the Natufians cluster more with AA speaking Africans than Niger-Congo speaking Africans. Especially AA speakers from Egypt/Sudan.

- Why does Niger-Congo and Natufian branch out of pre-historic North-East Africa in the clusters?

Again its going by phenotype.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

You welcome. And yes that would be the case. Berbers WERE apart of the Green Sahara when they migrated from East Africa. I'm talking about proto-Berbers and the the prehistoric Maghreb population. IMO the Libyan dynasty would have been similar to Siwa Berbers. Anyways, I am hearing from people MORE knowlegable than me on this on other forums that Siwa Berbers actually the "TRUE Berber linages" i.e E-M35. Me and others always thought Siwa Berbers weren't "true" Berbers because they do not carry "Berber marker" E-M81. But what people have told me is that E-M81 did not migrate into the Maghreb from the Nile Valley but that it mutated from E-M35. But E-M81 does have East African ancestry. I think Tuaregs represent the earliest split from E-M35 which is why they cluster so close to Northeast Africans like the Beja!

So all in all the Libyan dynasty would have been similar to Nile Valley Berbers like the Siwa.

Anyways here is another image of an ancient Libyan.

Its only talking in terms of phenotype. In terms of paternal DNA the Natufians cluster more with AA speaking Africans than Niger-Congo speaking Africans. Especially AA speakers from Egypt/Sudan.



Again its going by phenotype.

Fascinating.

The Peopling of Africa is a difficult subject to study. Too many things to consider/re-evaluate.

Why do you think Afro-Asiatics in Africa have such differing phenotypes compared to Niger-Congo speakers? Or do you think that isn't the case?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Fascinating.

The Peopling of Africa is a difficult subject to study. Too many things to consider/re-evaluate.

Why do you think Afro-Asiatics in Africa have such differing phenotypes compared to Niger-Congo speakers? Or do you think that isn't the case?

Yeah Africa is a VERY complex region to study. I'm constantly having to update my views on African anthropology/genetics.

Anyways, becareful because AA and NC are just language families and people(including me) have a habit of racializing them. The Fulani while they do have SOME Berber admixture speak a NC language but they have narrow features like Horners. Not only that but when it comes to paternal DNA Nigerian Fulanis carry E1b1a at 100%! E1b1a which is associated with "Niger-Congo" Africans.

The differences has mostly to do with climate. I notice AA speakers live in more drier climates which is suitable for those features. However, narrow features can be found THROUGHOUT Africa. Even in the most deepest "Sub Sahara" parts of Africa like Rwanda, Uganda and Tanzania. But narrow features are just more concentrated in the Horn/Northeast Africa due to the climate there being suitable for those features. In Ethiopia it was VERY dry and cold.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Anyways @MansaMusa if @Gebor comes back here then he can answer your questions MUCH better than I can. He's an actual Tuareg/Berber.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Yeah Africa is a VERY complex region to study. I'm constantly having to update my views on African anthropology/genetics.

Anyways, becareful because AA and NC are just language families and people(including me) have a habit of racializing them. The Fulani while they do have SOME Berber admixture speak a NC language but they have narrow features like Horners. Not only that but when it comes to paternal DNA Nigerian Fulanis carry E1b1a at 100%! E1b1a which is associated with "Niger-Congo" Africans.

The differences has mostly to do with climate. I notice AA speakers live in more drier climates which is suitable for those features. However, narrow features can be found THROUGHOUT Africa. Even in the most deepest "Sub Sahara" parts of Africa like Rwanda, Uganda and Tanzania. But narrow features are just more concentrated in the Horn/Northeast Africa due to the climate there being suitable for those features. In Ethiopia it was VERY dry and cold.

The Fulani and Tutsi ethnic groups do indicate that language-family should remain as a possible indicator and not the sure thing when determining ancestral lineages/population histories. Indo-Europeans are another good example. Comparing an Irish person and a Marathi would reveal phenotype differences. For Austronesians too if you were to compare a Malagasy to a Maori.

 

[Cadillac]

Dindt watch but shes black huh.

 

[Emoryal]

Too bad scientific sources support what I say especially on their paternal DNA.

Now what does a dumb Coli poster has to counter?

Not what I was laughing at but you do you breh

 

[3rdWorld]

They also want to prove that they are African but they dont want to be African if you catch my drift.

That's because they are occupying Black land and feel guilty so to speak but need to justify why they are in Africa.

 

[Karb]

That's because they are occupying Black land and feel guilty so to speak but need to justify why they are in Africa.

They're not occupying black lands breh. This type of rhetoric needs to stop.

 

[3rdWorld]

They're not occupying black lands breh. This type of rhetoric needs to stop.

They are not truly indigenous to the area as a people.