Am I the only one who can't stand superhero movies?

[MartyMcFly]

It's up to you. You are the one making the claim that "most" superhero movies lack character development. I just want to know which movies you are thinking of when you say this and what your idea of character development means.

Ok cool off the top of my head, character development is something that translates from one movie to the next, not resetting itself just for the sake of story. I feel like age of ultron missed that mark and in a way wiped out tony's character development from iron man 3. spider-man 2 and 3 kept Peter in the same place that he ended at spider-man 1, although I love spider man 2, that's always been my main issue with it, along with its lack of development for MJ as a character. Any character not named wolverine in the first three x men movies lack any type of development or arc, Thor has had one bit of growth in the first thor movie but after that? Same guy, same cat.

Winter soldier so far did it the best in the sense of that it carried over. It doesn't mean that they're bad flicks at all because I love them all for the most part but at times the development doesn't carry over because you need characters to be in a certain place by the end for the next movie rather than telling a contained story

 

[TNC]

I think the feeling when complaining about comic book flicks is sometimes they tend to be very predictable just as far as the beats go and even being able to predict how each act will play out. There's a co host on fatman on batman, Marc Bernardin, very smart guy, wrote some comics, worked in television, etc, and what Marc always says is that while he loves comic book flicks because he loves comic books, he understands that there are certain things he wants from a movie that a lot of comic book flicks (not all of them) won't give him in terms of character progression, arc, real stakes, etc. but he's fine with that because he loves going along for the ride.

The difference between a typical comic book flick and something like fight club or john wick is that there are true stakes and true character progression. John starts at one place, ends in another. The narrator in fight club starts in one place, ends in a completely different place. Even James Bond, which truly had little character progression for 50 years, has now decided to progress James as a character and not just treat him as an archetype who starts and stops in the same place. Him getting married was part of that but then the series only touched on what the end of that marriage did to him and how it affected him. Whereas the outcome of Casino Royale clearly messed with him and he needed a whole movie to deal with it and that type of attention to detail and character progression is something they've seemingly wanted to focus on for this iteration of Bond and I love it.

I don't think homie was complaining for the sake of complaining, I think he wanted to get a dialogue going (or maybe I'm too optimistic and he really didn't give a shyt about dialogue and just wanted to vent) but I think there is something to be said for his point of view and people who feel that way because he's not alone. He's not the first person I've heard say something like that and I don't begrudge anyone for how they feel about comic book flicks because they can be very very formulaic

If I understand you correctly, you are kind of saying the issue with Comic book movies is the format? That viewers generally know the hero will make it out alive and that the problem will be solved at the end, etc?

I hear what you are saying with this, but its not as if comic book movies are incapable of performing this level of character progression. I'd argue a lot of the older one off comic book movies like Constantine, Blade Trilogy and 300 subvert this. I think its just some people don't like or care for the blatant fact they are going for decompressed storytelling in order to stretch franchises out to several movies and more paydays but that just the nature of business... like you feel what I'm saying here?

 

[MartyMcFly]

If I understand you correctly, you are kind of saying the issue with Comic book movies is the format? That viewers generally know the hero will make it out alive and that the problem will be solved at the end, etc?

I hear what you are saying with this, but its not as if comic book movies are incapable of performing this level of character progression. I'd argue a lot of the older one off comic book movies like Constantine, Blade Trilogy and 300 subvert this. I think its just some people don't like or care for the blatant fact they are going for decompressed storytelling in order to stretch franchises out to several movies and more paydays but that just the nature of business... like you feel what I'm saying here?

Yup I agree. The stuff that's less tied to an ongoing story and is more self contained succeed on that level. Lol again I'm not saying I don't like the movies because I do but liking something doesn't mean you can't be analytical about them or critical. Nothing is perfect. Except maybe the wire lol. I love Nas and Jay z, doesn't mean they both don't have their faults as artists..one of them more than the other

 

[Straw Hat Luffy]

Besides the batman series with Christian Bale, all of the super hero movies are forgettable to me. It's annoying that we can't get movies with actual new ideas, crazy concept right? But instead, we get remakes and super hero movies the next five years.

Not going to lie though the batman vs superman and suicide squad movies will be lit!

 

[chico25]

Ok cool off the top of my head, character development is something that translates from one movie to the next, not resetting itself just for the sake of story. I feel like age of ultron missed that mark and in a way wiped out tony's character development from iron man 3. spider-man 2 and 3 kept Peter in the same place that he ended at spider-man 1, although I love spider man 2, that's always been my main issue with it, along with its lack of development for MJ as a character. Any character not named wolverine in the first three x men movies lack any type of development or arc, Thor has had one bit of growth in the first thor movie but after that? Same guy, same cat.

Winter soldier so far did it the best in the sense of that it carried over. It doesn't mean that they're bad flicks at all because I love them all for the most part but at times the development doesn't carry over because you need characters to be in a certain place by the end for the next movie rather than telling a contained story

I disagree on Ironman in age of Ultron and said why in the official thread. At the end of Ironman 3 he didn't want to be Ironman anymore and that did carry over. Things changed in his world so he had to go back but he was working on Ultron so he could be confident the world wouldn't end if he quit again. That's why he was pushing so hard to make it work and was so willing to try again with Vision.

I didn't really like the Rami Spiderman films or the early Xmen films that much, probably because these were my favorite characters and my expectations were through the roof. The xmen films were lacking in character until First Class which is why I didn't care for them. I don't think the Spiderman movies lacked character growth, something was definitely missing but I felt like Peter and Mary Jane both changed over the series. Maybe the acting wasn't good enough to show the progression.

Thor is the same guy at heart but is driven by new motivation. He starts sure that he is more than ready to be king only to be humbled and shown he had a lot to learn. After learning what it will take to be a great king decides he'd rather be a good soldier.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I disagree on Ironman in age of Ultron and said why in the official thread. At the end of Ironman 3 he didn't want to be Ironman anymore and that did carry over. Things changed in his world so he had to go back but he was working on Ultron so he could be confident the world wouldn't end if he quit again. That's why he was pushing so hard to make it work and was so willing to try again with Vision.

I didn't really like the Rami Spiderman films or the early Xmen films that much, probably because these were my favorite characters and my expectations were through the roof. The xmen films were lacking in character until First Class which is why I didn't care for them. I don't think the Spiderman movies lacked character growth, something was definitely missing but I felt like Peter and Mary Jane both changed over the series. Maybe the acting wasn't good enough to show the progression.

Thor is the same guy at heart but is driven by new motivation. He starts sure that he is more than ready to be king only to be humbled and shown he had a lot to learn. After learning what it will take to be a great king decides he'd rather be a good soldier.

Nah once peter develops in the first movie, he stops..that's it. His growth is effectively over. He's the same cat who just learns lessons but the character and the portrayal of said character doesn't change and that's what always blows me about it especially as a spider man fiend. And the MJ thing..yeah nothing at all. I agree with you on x men wholeheartedly. First Class and days of future past were the first times they chose to do anything with anyone other than wolverine and have it stick from movie to movie rather than just having them reset or be whatever was needed for the next installment.

And my issue with Thor is just that: he grew in the first movie over a brief period of time and then in the 2nd movie, there was nothing left for him. Just felt kinda aimless to me

 

[Jazzy B.]

They're action/action adventure movies where the main character and villain just happen to wear capes.

No different to when there was an abundance of action movies in the 80's/90's.

Closest we'll ever get that period, when the likes of Nick Cage, Bruce Willis, Arnold, Wesley Snipes, Harrison Ford, Kurt Russel, Mel Gibson, Sylvester Stallone, Steve Segal etc were in every action movie and playing similar characters who always won and got the girl. Just replace the names of the actors with a superhero. Post 90's Hollywood have failed to make new action stars(Butler, Worthington, Kitsch, Pine, Brody, Klein etc) creating a vacuum that has been filled in by superhero characters and their alter-egos.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Besides the batman series with Christian Bale, all of the super hero movies are forgettable to me. It's annoying that we can't get movies with actual new ideas, crazy concept right? But instead, we get remakes and super hero movies the next five years.

Not going to lie though the batman vs superman and suicide squad movies will be lit!

A completely original idea is very rare most movies are like other movies with one or two changes. And when a completely original idea does come about no one knows how the public will receive it. They are risky bets financially, and the financiers decide what does and doesn't see the light of day.

It sounds good to say, 'the movie industry should come up with more original ideas." but it is way easier said than actually done.

 

[chico25]

Nah once peter develops in the first movie, he stops..that's it. His growth is effectively over. He's the same cat who just learns lessons but the character and the portrayal of said character doesn't change and that's what always blows me about it especially as a spider man fiend. And the MJ thing..yeah nothing at all. I agree with you on x men wholeheartedly. First Class and days of future past were the first times they chose to do anything with anyone other than wolverine and have it stick from movie to movie rather than just having them reset or be whatever was needed for the next installment.

And my issue with Thor is just that: he grew in the first movie over a brief period of time and then in the 2nd movie, there was nothing left for him. Just felt kinda aimless to me

I felt like in Thor 2 he became a Simp whose goal was to get Jane. He was going through the motions on the things he had to do but that was just a front. Once age of Ultron started we see him happy enjoying battle and life again. It's not great development for the character but it's there.

 

[CACarot]

I fully expect you to be on the neg train from this

 

[MartyMcFly]

I felt like in Thor 2 he became a Simp whose goal was to get Jane. He was going through the motions on the things he had to do but that was just a front. Once age of Ultron started we see him happy enjoying battle and life again. It's not great development for the character but it's there.

But is it there if it bends to whatever the story needs? You build a story around your characters, not the other way around

 

[chico25]

But is it there if it bends to whatever the story needs? You build a story around your characters, not the other way around

It was built around him, his love/simping for Jane is an established part of his character from the first movie. He dies to keep her safe, it's mentioned that he misses her when the movie ends and in Avengers he has Coulson make sure she is in a safe place. This simping isn't something that came out of nowhere. Him deciding to put his simping over being king was the development and that was based in what happened in story. Him realizing the type of responsibility and choices he would have to make as king weren't worth giving up his happiness.

 

[Killigraphy]

I still agree that many of them are money grabs. I still detest RDJ's performance as Iron Man, somewhat tolerable in Avengers, but still a bad choice for what should've been Tom Sellick's role. Very few of them are passion projects ala X-Men first class and Days of Future Past, instead the industry is inundated with trash like; Wolverine Origins, Spiderman #3201, Fantastic Four, etc. These days if you want to enjoy the film you first have to research the director, and even then, it can prove to be a shyt-tastic adventure.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

I still agree that many of them are money grabs. I still detest RDJ's performance as Iron Man, somewhat tolerable in Avengers, but still a bad choice for what should've been Tom Sellick's role. Very few of them are passion projects ala X-Men first class and Days of Future Past, instead the industry is inundated with trash like; Wolverine Origins, Spiderman #3201, Fantastic Four, etc. These days if you want to enjoy the film you first have to research the director, and even then, it can prove to be a shyt-tastic adventure.

This nicca said he would rather Tom Selleck over RDJ?!

Besides Three Men and A Baby I don't think any movie featuring Selleck has made money. lol I mean individual taste needs no explanation but this is a head scratcher.

 

[dizzy4111]

I'd say about 1 in 10 is worth a shyt.