Allen Iverson type opinions on 'Black on Black' Crime - A Dialogue

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,892
Reputation
13,171
Daps
100,988
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
PREMISE:

Dismantling the stating of "black on black crime" as an argument and recycling it to rebrand "black on black crime" as strong evidence that institutional racism is the x-factor regarding dysfunction in the urban community.

TL;DR - Institutional racism is tantamount to dysfunctional societal institution. Dysfunctional institutions beget a dysfunctional community. Black communities and, in essence, black people are no more prone to violence than any other demographic. Place any other demographic and study them under similar conditions of institutional discrimination and dysfunction; you will see similar education performance and volume of crime.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Props to @Po pimp for sharing this IG post by Allen Iverson:



The thread was in the coliseum and although I posted my opinion on it, I felt I needed to create a thread on dismantling this idea that black on black crime is a valid "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" point.

It isn't. Now, I'm not going to call Iverson or those who think like him a c00n, or tom, or whatever is the trending counter productive comments that we see some of us do.

I'm not trying to entrench the people who genuinely believe there is some credence to their misguided(in my opinion) thoughts. If I cursed out the Iversons of the world and spit on them, they'll become further entrenched in there perspective. People don't like being shown they are wrong, but if the communication is respectful and doesn't feel like an attack on their pride or integrity, they is a high likelihood that they may take the information and allow it to re-calibrate their perspective.

So, regarding the Iverson post -


Allen Iverson is
DEAD fukkING WRONG IN THIS POST.


He is wrong with respect to perspective.
He is wrong with respect to his lack of nuance and sensitivity on the topic.

He is wrong with respect to "I see why people are scared of us."

The use of the terms "black on black crime" and/or "we are our own worst enemy" are


TERMS THAT ARE NEGLIGENT AND WRONG TO USE IN DISCUSSION ON THESE TOPICS.


Dysfunctional institutions that have policy based on archaic racist ideas result in dysfunctional communities which begets the symptoms of a dysfunction community such as high volume of crime and lower educational achievements.

Evidence? During the late 18th century when New York City was flooded with poor irish and italian immigrants; the xenophobia led to them having live in ghettos. Their crime rates were very similar to what we see amongst poor urban communities today.

Violent crime in the U.S. “surged” in the middle of the 19th century just as the foreign-born population reached its peak. Previous research has argued that these two phenomena were strongly linked. Eric Monkkonen (1989) found that immigrants accounted for between one-third and two-thirds of the homicides in New York City between 1852 and 1869 (p. 91). Roger Lane (1979) likewise found that the Irish were disproportionately represented in homicide indictments in Philadelphia between 1839 and 1901 (p. 103).
https://www.nber.org/papers/w16266.pdf

"Irish on Irish crime"? Or, more accurately, "Crime trends as a result of being marginalized into poverty and low social value".


When anyone says "Black on Black crime", I place them into 2 categories...
  1. The people who are genuinely un-knowledgeable about the origins of issues plaguing the communities and deserve to be maturely debated and welcome into dialogue.
  2. Or the people who are maliciously ignorant and intentionally state black on black crime because they know how it triggers people.

My post is for the people in 1.

When human beings who happen to be black are born...they are NOT prone to violence and crime anymore that the newly human being who happens to be what is considered white.

SO...what leads to the high level of violence in certain urban communities?

The history of poor institutions that were supposed to provide the basic services that any U.S citizen deserves;
  • Proper educational institutions who have high expectations for the students of the urban community
  • Proper law enforcement institutions who have broken the nexus of ideology and training passed down from generation to generation with respect to the way black people in that community are to be treated.
  • Proper financial and public assistance institutions who don't do a proper job helping indigent black residents achieve the opportunities and values that allow them to jump from lower to middle class without being "domesticated" by creating a reliance and complacency regarding public assistance programs. (This sentence was convoluted, sorry.)

Would any of you @ISO @FukkaPaidEmail @Yogi claim that the dogs who have been abused and raised in a dog fighting camp are the REASON WHY they are so violent? No, you'd look at the environment and the perpetrators of that environment.

ALL of these young men, including Nipsey, including shytty Cuz, including me, you are born with the same potential to be a law abiding citizen as anyone else. However, the factors that created the dysfunctional situation do not point the guilty finger towards the black community itself. The cause is the INSTITUTIONAL RACISM that fuels the dysfunctional policy and community services in those communities.

I'll show you it in color below:

Someone tell me when the finger of blame should be pointed at the below described black child to man:

Black Life growing in the womb:

The young mother, present in the back row of the courtroom as the father of her child is sentenced to a 20 year sentence. She is no older than 19 years old and in no way prepared to raise this child, but she does.

^We feel bad for that child, right? As we should. The child did not volunteer to be a party to this desperate situation.

The Black Child is born:
On the way home, the young mother feels a chill up her spine as she dives into this questionable future. With relatively low resources, the black child is unable to maximize development.

^ We feel bad for that child, right? As we should. The newborn black baby did not volunteer to be a party to this desperate situation.

The Black Child is Raised:

The stress of a poverty stricken life, with relatively low resources and options and lack of mental health services results in the young mother projecting her stress on the Black child. He'd better not cry, he'd better walk up, he'd better not talk back otherwise someone "will give you something to fukking cry about!" Would that young mother treat her child like that had she been afforded the proper mental health services, the proper education and the proper experience of companionship? No, but, alas, we are here. This is our situation.

^ We feel bad for that child, right? As we should. The growing black child did not volunteer to be a party to this desperate situation.


The Black Boy Learns to Not Be a Child:
That young mother may have improved her situation somewhat, she may have become a bit more controlled in handling her frustration; however, that Black child has already learned about what love is and how it looks, it was shown to him by the absence of being tucked in at night like the children in the movies, it was shown to him by the beating in public for acting like a young child, or also known as misbehaving and not listening, it was shown to him by the guardians he was left with when his mother had to work and those guardians may have been predators, those guardians may have not known how to appropriately talk and act in front of a child. He learned to not cry, he learned to not seek help and compassion when he feels hurt physically or mentally. He learns to ignore the mental hints his brain gives him when stress or sadness or anger are overloading his system. He learns that poor mental health is normal. He can't be a child, he is a black boy.

^ We feel bad for that black boy, right? As we should. The black boy did not volunteer to have his development sacrificed because of a complicated situation.

The Black Boy Learns how to Escape Being a Victim:
Our black boy sees victimization of his peers by his stronger peers and learns the normalization of bullying. Our black boy begins to understand, at the tender of of 10, how to navigate this dysfunctional environment. Our black boy sees the peer groups of victims and sees the peer group of those that victimize; he learns that for him, a fork in the road is coming that will determine which group he will belong to. And because a Black boy, like any other child, desires belonging, connection and bonding, he will look for it wherever it exposes itself, whether it be a team, a crew, or even a gang.

^ We feel bad for that black teen, right? As we should. Our black teen did not volunteer to live in an environment where escaping victimization may very well mean joining those who victimize even though, internally, it's a moral struggle.

The Black Teen Learns How to Navigate:
Our black teen is not a victim. Our black teen knows he isn't scared of ANYONE. Our black teen doesn't know that he IS scared of vulnerability. Our black teen learns that he must never NOT be on edge. He must never NOT be ready. He must never NOT be perceived as safe. He doesn't teach himself, however. He learns it from the un-mitigated dysfunction and violence around him. Again, he must NEVER be a victim, even if it means that the only other alternative is to be the one who victimizes.

^ We feel bad for that black teen, right? As we should. We knew that a child is a sponger and he has merely taken his cues from what is shown to him.

The Black Teen Becomes what Others Tell Him a Man is Supposed to Be:
Our Black Teen begins to shed any idea that he is still learning and still in need of a guardian. Our Black Teen sees the word "teen" and grinds his teeth at it because "teen" is a child and he has learned that he can not view himself as a child. He learned that "he ain't shyt" because his mother or uncle or other family member tells him that when he stumbles the way teens stumble before learning the right way. He stumbles, however, and he is criticized for not knowing how to avoid stumbling even though no one was there to properly teach him. He must be a man now and he will use every former experience of his life, from what he heard about his father, to what he heard women liked to what he learned to admire, and he begins to be that version of a man.

^ We feel bad for this newly minted black man, right? Or maybe you wouldn't if you hadn't been forced to activate your empathy while watching him on his journey. You hope that a proper male role model comes into his life and helps reverse the effects of a dysfunctional society. You hope that despite all odds, he finds a skill or a talent that he dives into and avoid the darkness of the street. He might, and he might not...

The Black Man at the End of this Journey:
He didn't teach himself to stare down the next black man because he's learned to be suspicious of those who look like him. He didn't teach himself that sexual conquest extends further than the women in his grasp but extends to the conquering of his peer's manhood by attempting to take his companion. He didn't teach himself how to suppress empathy for the black man struggling just like him. He didn't teach himself that he didn't have value. When institutional racism and dysfunction plague our society, it becomes possible for police officers to look at the black men who walk the street as just a criminal in waiting. That dysfunction in our society allows the public education system to be of poor quality because society lacks high expectations of these black men. That dysfunction in our society allows an innocent child to learn that violence and confrontation and never backing down are just part of life. That dysfunction in our society allows the totem pole of perceived success and admiration placed those who victimize as being at the top and those who are ready to conquer their brother with no empathy as being as the top of that totem pole. And every human being wants to be near the top of the totem pole that's unique to their peer group and class.

Tell me, at which stage were you comfortable with stating "THEY are the reason why the community is so bad. The buck stops with them!"?

A recipe is now left to stew in our black man's value system and perception of morality. He didn't cook that dysfunctional stew. Who allowed those ingredients to be poured into the pot for a century? Us, those who offer no feeling of empathy for how a violent criminal could become the way he does. We have allowed that recipe as we paint those black men as their own worst enemy instead of knowing that they really are their own best friend they didn't know they had.

Yes, violent crime is enacted by members of the same demographic because of proximity. But we must also understand that the high volume of violent crime in the urban community is not unique to black people. It is unique to victims of a dysfunctional society that has no genuine support from the institutions that are supposed to be there to help foster growth.

--------------------------------------

Props to @Bone$ @Trot LaRoc and @Rev

This is not an attempt to shame. It's a plea to consider a more fleshed out perspective for the sake of progress in Black on Black Intellectuality. <---(Don't even ask me how):banderas:
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,892
Reputation
13,171
Daps
100,988
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
Because I don't want it lost in the wall of text:

I really want y'all to play the below game and tell me at which step are we supposed to NOT have empathy?

Someone tell me when the finger of blame should be pointed at the below described black child to man:

[Stage 1]Black Life growing in the womb:

The young mother, present in the back row of the courtroom as the father of her child is sentenced to a 20 year sentence. She is no older than 19 years old and in no way prepared to raise this child, but she does.

^We feel bad for that child, right? As we should. The child did not volunteer to be a party to this desperate situation.

[Stage 2]The Black Child is born:
On the way home, the young mother feels a chill up her spine as she dives into this questionable future. With relatively low resources, the black child is unable to maximize development.

^ We feel bad for that child, right? As we should. The newborn black baby did not volunteer to be a party to this desperate situation.

[Stage 3]The Black Child is Raised:

The stress of a poverty stricken life, with relatively low resources and options and lack of mental health services results in the young mother projecting her stress on the Black child. He'd better not cry, he'd better walk up, he'd better not talk back otherwise someone "will give you something to fukking cry about!" Would that young mother treat her child like that had she been afforded the proper mental health services, the proper education and the proper experience of companionship? No, but, alas, we are here. This is our situation.

^ We feel bad for that child, right? As we should. The growing black child did not volunteer to be a party to this desperate situation.


[Stage 4]The Black Boy Learns to Not Be a Child:
That young mother may have improved her situation somewhat, she may have become a bit more controlled in handling her frustration; however, that Black child has already learned about what love is and how it looks, it was shown to him by the absence of being tucked in at night like the children in the movies, it was shown to him by the beating in public for acting like a young child, or also known as misbehaving and not listening, it was shown to him by the guardians he was left with when his mother had to work and those guardians may have been predators, those guardians may have not known how to appropriately talk and act in front of a child. He learned to not cry, he learned to not seek help and compassion when he feels hurt physically or mentally. He learns to ignore the mental hints his brain gives him when stress or sadness or anger are overloading his system. He learns that poor mental health is normal. He can't be a child, he is a black boy.

^ We feel bad for that black boy, right? As we should. The black boy did not volunteer to have his development sacrificed because of a complicated situation.

[Stage 5]The Black Boy Learns how to Escape Being a Victim:
Our black boy sees victimization of his peers by his stronger peers and learns the normalization of bullying. Our black boy begins to understand, at the tender of of 10, how to navigate this dysfunctional environment. Our black boy sees the peer groups of victims and sees the peer group of those that victimize; he learns that for him, a fork in the road is coming that will determine which group he will belong to. And because a Black boy, like any other child, desires belonging, connection and bonding, he will look for it wherever it exposes itself, whether it be a team, a crew, or even a gang.

^ We feel bad for that black teen, right? As we should. Our black teen did not volunteer to live in an environment where escaping victimization may very well mean joining those who victimize even though, internally, it's a moral struggle.

[Stage 6]The Black Teen Learns How to Navigate:
Our black teen is not a victim. Our black teen knows he isn't scared of ANYONE. Our black teen doesn't know that he IS scared of vulnerability. Our black teen learns that he must never NOT be on edge. He must never NOT be ready. He must never NOT be perceived as safe. He doesn't teach himself, however. He learns it from the un-mitigated dysfunction and violence around him. Again, he must NEVER be a victim, even if it means that the only other alternative is to be the one who victimizes.

^ We feel bad for that black teen, right? As we should. We knew that a child is a sponger and he has merely taken his cues from what is shown to him.

[Stage 7]The Black Teen Becomes what Others Tell Him a Man is Supposed to Be:
Our Black Teen begins to shed any idea that he is still learning and still in need of a guardian. Our Black Teen sees the word "teen" and grinds his teeth at it because "teen" is a child and he has learned that he can not view himself as a child. He learned that "he ain't shyt" because his mother or uncle or other family member tells him that when he stumbles the way teens stumble before learning the right way. He stumbles, however, and he is criticized for not knowing how to avoid stumbling even though no one was there to properly teach him. He must be a man now and he will use every former experience of his life, from what he heard about his father, to what he heard women liked to what he learned to admire, and he begins to be that version of a man.

^ We feel bad for this newly minted black man, right? Or maybe you wouldn't if you hadn't been forced to activate your empathy while watching him on his journey. You hope that a proper male role model comes into his life and helps reverse the effects of a dysfunctional society. You hope that despite all odds, he finds a skill or a talent that he dives into and avoid the darkness of the street. He might, and he might not...

[Scapegoat Stage 8] The Black Man at the End of this Journey:
He didn't teach himself to stare down the next black man because he's learned to be suspicious of those who look like him. He didn't teach himself that sexual conquest extends further than the women in his grasp but extends to the conquering of his peer's manhood by attempting to take his companion. He didn't teach himself how to suppress empathy for the black man struggling just like him. He didn't teach himself that he didn't have value. When institutional racism and dysfunction plague our society, it becomes possible for police officers to look at the black men who walk the street as just a criminal in waiting. That dysfunction in our society allows the public education system to be of poor quality because society lacks high expectations of these black men. That dysfunction in our society allows an innocent child to learn that violence and confrontation and never backing down are just part of life. That dysfunction in our society allows the totem pole of perceived success and admiration placed those who victimize as being at the top and those who are ready to conquer their brother with no empathy as being as the top of that totem pole. And every human being wants to be near the top of the totem pole that's unique to their peer group and class.

Stage 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8?
 
Last edited:

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,892
Reputation
13,171
Daps
100,988
Reppin
Old Brooklyn

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,892
Reputation
13,171
Daps
100,988
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
Ima read this later but...breh how tf yall be havin time to do all this shyt? :russ:
I'm an attorney. When I'm in court or in hearings, I'm ghost.

But when I'm in the office or waiting for my case to be called...
tenor.gif


:lolbron:Yesterday, I ain't have time, but, on crip, TODAY I GOT TIME.
 

TL15

Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
16,451
Reputation
13,491
Daps
134,806
"Black on Black crime" is a myth. The number 1 indicator of crime perpetrated from one individual unto another in the United States is proximity.

"Black on black crime" insinuates that black people are looking for and targeting specifically black people. Just like "white on white crime". When actually, gang violence, neighbor disputes, etc. are more based upon demographics of the area. There is crime in all areas. In areas with highly concentrated numbers of black people, black people commit crimes against other black people. In areas with highly concentrated numbers of white people, white people commit crimes against other white people.

"Black on black crime" was a way for someone who is not black to point a finger at black people, and it worked sadly :snoop: Instead of looking at police brutality (the abuse of power from someone meant to serve the public) we are shown numbers of criminals committing crimes and told to focus on the race of those involved, a completely unrelated argument.

Black people should not say "we need to end black on black crime" because that is just "crime". What we need to focus on is changing gang culture in African American communities. We need to be specific with our conversations, our plans, and our actions, instead of just saying "black on black crime"
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,892
Reputation
13,171
Daps
100,988
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
"Black on black crime" was a way for someone who is not black to point a finger at black people, and it worked sadly :snoop: Instead of looking at police brutality (the abuse of power from someone meant to serve the public) we are shown numbers of criminals committing crimes and told to focus on the race of those involved, a completely unrelated argument.
Co-fukking-sign
 

OliviaTwist

All Star
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
1,251
Reputation
385
Daps
5,642
Reppin
The Souf
I'm an attorney. When I'm in court or in hearings, I'm ghost.

But when I'm in the office or waiting for my case to be called...
tenor.gif


:lolbron:Yesterday, I ain't have time, but, on crip, TODAY I GOT TIME.
:pachaha::pachaha::pachaha:

I 100% agree and I hate when the “wHy DoNt bLaCk LiVeS MatTeR To bLaCk PeOpLe” crowd comes out of the woodwork during certain times, but I also feel that we should be able to be introspective of certain aspects of our culture (rap music/ gang activity) that helps normalize and desensitize us to violence. I just don’t think it’s a conversation that needs to be had in front of white people. They lack the nuance and historical contexts that you stated to understand why on the outside looking in things appear that way.
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,892
Reputation
13,171
Daps
100,988
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
:pachaha::pachaha::pachaha:

I 100% agree and I hate when the “wHy DoNt bLaCk LiVeS MatTeR To bLaCk PeOpLe” crowd comes out of the woodwork during certain times, but I also feel that we should be able to be introspective of certain aspects of our culture (rap music/ gang activity) that helps normalize and desensitize us to violence. I just don’t think it’s a conversation that needs to be had in front of white people. They lack the nuance and historical contexts that you stated to understand why on the outside looking in things appear that way.
Absolutely agreed.

I think alot of people who hear a perspective such as mine are afraid that I'm somehow making excuses for or taking the share of shame that violent elements in the community away.

Not at all.

We definitely need to adjust certain glorifications and normalizing of dysfunction.

That being said, if this country is not made aware of how dysfunction comes from ineffective gov't service... We'll be essentially attempting to climb up a smooth rock while it's raining; very difficult.
 
Last edited:
Top