ALL TIME....THE HEART BREAK KID SHAWN MICHAELS...or the MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE...REAL simple

[Spiritual Stratocaster]

Apparently Macho wanted a yearlong feud with HBK but vince said no...

 

[TNC]

And when talking about the "Longevity" of HBK, you have to consider how many smile losing breaks he took in his career. Considering years worked, Macho Man had twice as long of a career HBK had and if it wasn't for HBK's return in 2002 he would have only had what... 4-5 classic matches period? 2 Ladder matches against Razor, OG Hell in the Cell, WM12 against Bret and maybe Mind Games IYH with Mankind.....

I can't think of any other GREAT HBK matches prior to his return...

 

[TNC]

Apparently Macho wanted a yearlong feud with HBK but vince said no...

Probably would have been HBK's best feud too


But wouldn't have been a top 5 feud for Macho

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Wrestling choreography is the least important thing to me in regards to the totality of the show. You are not a better wrestler than someone else because you do more flashy stuff in the ring.

That is like sayin one player is better than another cause he got nicer handles and more flashy highlights. I would rather have the dude who scores 30 a game albeit on fundamentals than the dude who could only score 20 but on 360 dunks.

 

[Wacky D]

i gave warrior credit in prior posts.

jake was pretty damn popular. never the draw that warrior was but underplay jake.

beefcake?

duggan got really over too actually..but no he doesnt fit my criteria or logic. did he look like a superhero and get pushed to the moon at the peak of wrestling popularity (outside of nWo era)? no to both.

honestly you dont know what youre talking about. i dont like cena much but warrior matches over some of cenas? gtfoh

he gave papa shango a legacy to run with?

im not downplaying anybody. the bottom line is jake, duggan, etc werent the warrior. so if its as ABC as youre making it seem, they wouldve had the warrior's success too.

how do i not know what im talking about? ive followed cena's career since 2002, so go somewhere with that. what cena matches are seeing the warrior's classics? cena is usually a tough watch for me unless you give him weapons & props, or if hes in the ring with an elite worker. i mean, hes had his moments with stiffs too tho. him & batista gelled like legends, but they were no warrior/hogan. the thing with warrior is, he made up for his lack of skills with his showmanship & entertainment value. and he might actually be the goat in that aspect. you can throw warrior in the ring with another bad wrestler, and the match will still be amongst the most exciting on the card, even if the actual wrestling was piss-poor.

"legacy" wasnt the term i was looking for with papa shango. but surely you know what i mean. he etched shango's name in stone. name another fly-by-night wrestler that is remembered like that? dude was around for what? 3-5 months?

forgot to answer this in the previous response: what wrestlers currently in the E have already surpassed hbk & bret? i'd say punk & danielson have, at least in terms of just the singles careers. and outside of the E, i'll take kurt angle & aj styles' careers over them as well.

 

[TNC]

Wrestling choreography is the least important thing to me in regards to the totality of the show. You are not a better wrestler than someone else because you do more flashy stuff in the ring.

That is like sayin one player is better than another cause he got nicer handles and more flashy highlights. I would rather have the dude who scores 30 a game albeit on fundamentals than the dude who could only score 20 but on 360 dunks.

So the actual wrestling is the least important thing to you about wrestling???


And you said "show" instead of match, fued or product. You are sliding dangerously close to Russo territory, homie...

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

im not downplaying anybody. the bottom line is jake, duggan, etc werent the warrior. so if its as ABC as youre making it seem, they wouldve had the warrior's success too.

how do i not know what im talking about? ive followed cena's career since 2002, so go somewhere with that. what cena matches are seeing the warrior's classics? cena is usually a tough watch for me unless you give him weapons & props, or if hes in the ring with an elite worker. i mean, hes had his moments with stiffs too tho. him & batista gelled like legends, but they were no warrior/hogan. the thing with warrior is, he made up for his lack of skills with his showmanship & entertainment value. and he might actually be the goat in that aspect. you can throw warrior in the ring with another bad wrestler, and the match will still be amongst the most exciting on the card, even if the actual wrestling was piss-poor.

"legacy" wasnt the term i was looking for with papa shango. but surely you know what i mean. he etched shango's name in stone. name another fly-by-night wrestler that is remembered like that? dude was around for what? 3-5 months?

forgot to answer this in the previous response: what wrestlers currently in the E have already surpassed hbk & bret? i'd say punk & danielson have, at least in terms of just the singles careers. and outside of the E, i'll take kurt angle & aj styles' careers over them as well.

im not wasting anymore time in this thread so ill leave it like this:

goldberg >>> warrior deal with it

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

So the actual wrestling is the least important thing to you about wrestling???


And you said "show" instead of match, fued or product. You are sliding dangerously close to Russo territory, homie...

The story behind the match to me is more important the match itself. A match without story and without stakes is just 2 male ballerinas performing a staged dance.

So yes I would rather watch a hogan match over a hbk match any day of the week. they just feel bigger. you feel like you're actually watching the best.

 

[TNC]

The story behind the match to me is more important the match itself. A match without story and without stakes is just 2 male ballerinas performing a staged dance.

So yes I would rather watch a hogan match over a hbk match any day of the week. they just feel bigger. you feel like you're actually watching the best.

I hear what you saying bruh, but the psychology is PART of the technical ability. In ring skills really only come down to 3 things, Technical ability, Workrate and Psychology but ALL of that together is what makes a quality wrestler. I think you are just getting the terminology a lil twisted is all.

 

[Wacky D]

im not wasting anymore time in this thread so ill leave it like this:

goldberg >>> warrior deal with it

deal with what? since when was anybody even talking about goldberg?

this has to be the worst runaway copout post ive ever seen in the history of the internet.

And when talking about the "Longevity" of HBK, you have to consider how many smile losing breaks he took in his career. Considering years worked, Macho Man had twice as long of a career HBK had and if it wasn't for HBK's return in 2002 he would have only had what... 4-5 classic matches period? 2 Ladder matches against Razor, OG Hell in the Cell, WM12 against Bret and maybe Mind Games IYH with Mankind.....

I can't think of any other GREAT HBK matches prior to his return...

that boring ass iron man match was nowhere near a classic.

most overrated match ever.

 

[ZEB WALTON]

Goldberg > warrior?...no

 

[TNC]

deal with what? since when was anybody even talking about goldberg?

this has to be the worst runaway copout post ive ever seen in the history of the internet.




that boring ass iron man match was nowhere near a classic.

most overrated match ever.

I mean, I was trying to be lenient lol

But where are all of these "prime" HBK classics people talk about? I was a fan of HBK back then but he wasn't having better matches than Bret was

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

I hear what you saying bruh, but the psychology is PART of the technical ability. In ring skills really only come down to 3 things, Technical ability, Workrate and Psychology but ALL of that together is what makes a quality wrestler. I think you are just getting the terminology a lil twisted is all.

Right. I'm with you.

Perfect example, the hogan/warrior match. Those guys don't perform a single punch or even attempt a single slam until several minutes in. But they BUILD that tension. They fukkin had the crowd goin crazy just off staredowns and feats of strength. You don't care that they ain't doin shyt cause you could just feel the electricity in the air.

If they had just rushed into the bodyslams and the suplexes right from the start, the match would have flopped. Instead they told a gradually building story.

No flips, no table spots, just pure working the crowd.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

And when talking about the "Longevity" of HBK, you have to consider how many smile losing breaks he took in his career. Considering years worked, Macho Man had twice as long of a career HBK had and if it wasn't for HBK's return in 2002 he would have only had what... 4-5 classic matches period? 2 Ladder matches against Razor, OG Hell in the Cell, WM12 against Bret and maybe Mind Games IYH with Mankind.....

I can't think of any other GREAT HBK matches prior to his return...

vs Marty Jannetty in 1993 (PWI match of the year that year, ranked #3 on this list of the best matches ever on Monday Night Raw)
vs Jeff Jarrett of all people at a random In Your House PPV in 1995 for the IC title
Rockers vs Orient Express at the Royal Rumble 1991

So taking the 5 you mentioned, plus the 3 I just listed, all of which took place between Jan 1991 and Dec 1997.... That's a 1.143 classic match per year average



What are all the Savage classics? And don't be listing no matches that are just GOOD, cause I've left a ton of debatable HBK ones out (vs Bulldog multiple times, vs Bret in 92, vs Nash at IYH after WM12, vs Mr. Perfect at KOTR, etc)

 

[R=G]

Lol..they'll say anything to justify their fake ass single minded perception of something that never was.

lol@Michaels vs Nash or Perfect....nobody has seen that bullshyt in 20 years and they don't want to.