Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - "Not All Dems Are The Same"

[Professor Emeritus]

Outside of Germany, the answer is YES! France economy is in ruins LMFAO. norway and finlanders leave in hordes to come to the US for jobs (and elswhere in the EU) because the attraction for an educated workforce is higher in the US. Germany literally did this 4 years ago, so we will see how they fare....remmeber they had this almost a 100 years ago as one of the first socialist states, which gave rise to Nazi germany but you know who cares about the details.

downside to Germany free education (college)

i'm just showing that common sense will always prevail and this article highlights exactly what is common sense to me

Germany proves tuition-free college is not a silver bullet for America’s education woes

I can go on and on cuz there's much more.

I have several friends from NOrway and they are here (in cali) going to school. Why would they do that you ask? LOL

Oh, I gotta respond to this bullshyt because he's doubling down on it.

Brother, Germany has had free college since the 1960s. I don't know where you got "literally did this 4 years ago" from, that proves you know nothing of what you're talking about. Most of Germany's colleges have been free ever since it rose from the ashes of World War II, and in 1971 a federal law was set making no tuition charges compulsory. In 2004 the federal law was repealed, but German college students like the situation so much (huh, weren't you trying to claim students' hate it?) that they held massive protests and got every state one-by-one to banish tuition at the state level.

So how did Germany manage to build one of the world's top economies if they've had free education since the 1960s.

You cherry-picked a few quotes from a niche magazine that targets wealthy liberals in the business world, basically the exact neoliberals who dismiss the idea. You ignore that Germany has some of the best public universities in the world. You ignore that students from around the world, including the USA, flock to German universities. You ignore that German students love getting free university. You ignore that even when some schools briefly charged fees for a decade, the fees were far far lower than American schools. And you ignore that the "problems" you stated (lecture halls with hundreds of students, grad students instructing in courses) are the same damn things that happen in American universities that students pay $50,000 a year to go to.



And claiming that a few dozen Norwegians choosing to go to school in sunny California proves that Norwegian colleges have problems.

Tens of thousands of Americans go to medical school in fukking third-world countries in the Caribbean, what do you think that proves?

 

[FAH1223]

 

[AnonymityX1000]

She got jokes to.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

AOC lickin shots

 

[King Kreole]

chosen one

she got the damn juice y'all

 

[Perfectson]

It's not free, everyone's taxes are paying.
Since you seem to be stuck on freeloading people and 'free stuff'. How do you feel about corporate subsidies, corporate bailouts and financial institutional quantitative easing?

Bro wtf are you talking about. Of course it's free .Don't start making bullshyt up like your friend rhakim . If I don't pay for it it's free to me. You saying taxes or paying for it is just you playing semantics without making any actual point.

I'm against corporate bailouts. I would be happy to allow corporations to go bust when they make por financial decisions.

Game set and match, now go away because you're being annoying trying to manipulate things to make you feel right. You had made no actual common sense points to support your assertion and I'm doing all the work. I'm ignoring Rhakim because he's regurgitating the same shyt and doing the same manipulation of words that you just tried , saying I said Republicans didn't vote for trump ,which I NEVER said.

If we are going to debate , be honorable and don't start playing gotcha semantics and lie.

Lastly , there both free and cheap community and vocational schools. There's many in my state and I just Google others. If you're counter argument is that they aren't free because taxpayers are paying , then I'm done speaking to you. Because you know exactly the terminology we are using here when we say free.

 

[Perfectson]

This isn't a data point that demonstrates free schooling causes more laziness at all. It's an anecdote with the implication based on a Nirvana Fallacy. Because not every high school student gets good grades and some drop out, we're to assume that "free" is the problem? That's a reach. Yes, increasing the rate of students who attend college will inevitably lead to some dropping out and failing but I don't think it's safe to assume that the dropout rates will suddenly shoot through the roof (I'll repeat that I'm open to actual data that suggests otherwise).

Here's an example where opportunity and free schooling created an improvement for a community,
One Man’s Millions Turn a Community in Florida Around



Again with the framing things poorly... First Cancelling debt will free up students to spend in places they haven't been (ie: the Housing Market) and that money in circulation can have benefits that outweigh the costs. Here's a study that showed potential benefits (conclusions on page 50).
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/rpr_2_6.pdf

In terms of higher paying jobs, There's no "free stuff" framing here, you tried to frame the massive debt as an incentive for students to work harder. I'm saying that the actual incentive is the opportunities afforded by attaining a degree (which equates to higher earnings over a lifetime). Use your common sense fam; what is the main reason that students are enrolling in college today? That's the actual incentive and it doesn't change if students are charged the cost of a car, a home or if it's free.

You can't say, don't use the only free schooling ecosystem as an example, because it supports what I'm stating. You have nothing to prove otherwise. What's your data point to show that free college works and doesn't create both economic and academic problems. Imnhappy to review.

Also the link you posted was 3 year olds, which is exactly what I've stated, the investment should be in k-12 not college/university levela. So that link supports my entire point.

A lot of kids enroll into college because they have nothing else to do and are still trying to find direction in life . I can easily show you the percentage of students that change their majors. Most aren't prepared to be adults and figuring out their long term future .because highschool has not prepped them for that. You use common sense and don't just spout stuff. The preparation needs to begin in HS not college.. You're all over the place trying to defend something that isn't dependable

 

[Perfectson]

This isn't a data point that demonstrates free schooling causes more laziness at all. It's an anecdote with the implication based on a Nirvana Fallacy. Because not every high school student gets good grades and some drop out, we're to assume that "free" is the problem? That's a reach. Yes, increasing the rate of students who attend college will inevitably lead to some dropping out and failing but I don't think it's safe to assume that the dropout rates will suddenly shoot through the roof (I'll repeat that I'm open to actual data that suggests otherwise).

Here's an example where opportunity and free schooling created an improvement for a community,
One Man’s Millions Turn a Community in Florida Around



Again with the framing things poorly... First Cancelling debt will free up students to spend in places they haven't been (ie: the Housing Market) and that money in circulation can have benefits that outweigh the costs. Here's a study that showed potential benefits (conclusions on page 50).
http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/rpr_2_6.pdf

In terms of higher paying jobs, There's no "free stuff" framing here, you tried to frame the massive debt as an incentive for students to work harder. I'm saying that the actual incentive is the opportunities afforded by attaining a degree (which equates to higher earnings over a lifetime). Use your common sense fam; what is the main reason that students are enrolling in college today? That's the actual incentive and it doesn't change if students are charged the cost of a car, a home or if it's free.

First it's the parents paying for school now it's student debt. The debt and cost of school needs to be reeled but how do you get it being free. Because they could spend money on something else? Lmfao. The students aren't paying their debts anyway !! Reel in college costs but at the end of the day someone has to pay and it's a known cost, parents and potential students have 18-19 years of planning to afford college, I'm not sympathetic for people making poor financial decisions. I see poor/brokenpeopke rocking Jordan's and Gucci belts all the time... take personal responsibility

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Bro wtf are you talking about. Of course it's free .Don't start making bullshyt up like your friend rhakim . If I don't pay for it it's free to me. You saying taxes or paying for it is just you playing semantics without making any actual point.

I'm against corporate bailouts. I would be happy to allow corporations to go bust when they make por financial decisions.

Game set and match, now go away because you're being annoying trying to manipulate things to make you feel right. You had made no actual common sense points to support your assertion and I'm doing all the work. I'm ignoring Rhakim because he's regurgitating the same shyt and doing the same manipulation of words that you just tried , saying I said Republicans didn't vote for trump ,which I NEVER said.

If we are going to debate , be honorable and don't start playing gotcha semantics and lie.

Lastly , there both free and cheap community and vocational schools. There's many in my state and I just Google others. If you're counter argument is that they aren't free because taxpayers are paying , then I'm done speaking to you. Because you know exactly the terminology we are using here when we say free.

I didn't lie. Taxes would cover the cost of free college. Sorry it hurts your brain to read it.

 

[Perfectson]

I didn't lie. Taxes would cover the cost of free college. Sorry it hurts your brain to read it.

Water is wet
Grass is green
Fire burns
Im done with you.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Water is wet
Grass is green
Fire burns
Im done with you.

Oh you're done now? Thanks for announcing it. That was definitely necessary. lol

 

[King Kreole]

I don't know why y'all arguing with @Perfectson , he doesn't believe in the progressive vision or values, so of course he doesn't understand what AOC is saying. She might as well be speaking a different language to him. Y'all aren't arguing from the same propositions.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

See, I laugh at her responses....but she gotta slow down

You can't let em see your tricks all the time. Just like Obama.

Cause once again, some vote is going to come up AND she will look dumb as hell and lack any of these responses.

Obama used his humor to remind people he still had it. AOC's humor will be used against her.

I just want her to SLOW IT DOWN.

 

[Perfectson]

I don't know why y'all arguing with @Perfectson , he doesn't believe in the progressive vision or values, so of course he doesn't understand what AOC is saying. She might as well be speaking a different language to him. Y'all aren't arguing from the same propositions.

that's not it, I totally get what she's saying.

I dont' believe that's the direction America needs to go in yet. I don't believe it's successful and I don't believe in a welfare state where everything is "free" or rather the expectation is for others to pay to the well-being of others beyond a certain point.

K-12 is free
defense is free
we have a welfare safety net
there's other socialist programs for elderly and disabled

able body adults should not be taken care of, period, and we can't afford it. I rather pull America out of the debt spending position before taxes are used to pay for one more damn thing (other than african american reparations).

 

[King Kreole]

that's not it, I totally get what she's saying.

I dont' believe that's the direction America needs to go in yet. I don't believe it's successful and I don't believe in a welfare state where everything is "free" or rather the expectation is for others to pay to the well-being of others beyond a certain point.

K-12 is free
defense is free
we have a welfare safety net
there's other socialist programs for elderly and disabled

able body adults should not be taken care of, period, and we can't afford it. I rather pull America out of the debt spending position before taxes are used to pay for one more damn thing (other than african american reparations).

Yeah this is what I mean. Y'all just have a fundamentally different view of what America should be. AOC and progressives believe that the wealthiest country on earth should pivot from being a playground for the extremely wealthy to providing all of its citizens with a standard of living on par with the wealth being produced in and by the nation, which means introducing and/or advancing social standards such as universal healthcare, updated minimum wage, free post-secondary education, affordable housing, good jobs guarantee, etc. It's a throughline continuation of the work done during the mid-20th century in which standards like child labour laws, free welfare, free social security, free socialized healthcare via medicare and medicaid, minimum wage, etc were introduced.

You seem to believe that all citizens shouldn't have the right to benefit from the enormous wealth being produced because forcing the poor and marginalized to abide by an artificially defined standard of difficulty of life under the guide of teaching them a hard lesson is more important than giving them more support. In many ways, your vision of America is the more traditional and mainstreamed vision, due to its roots in Puritanism/Calvinism. During that aforementioned mid-20th century period, there were people like you pushing back against those social reforms. The whole "no free lunch" ethos is so central to American ideology. It's deeply alienating and punishing, but that's a feature, not a bug.

So whereas you see progressive proposals as "free" (aka unearned) programs being given to the indolent and unworthy, AOC and progressives see those programs as not only earned via natural rights as a citizen, but as a moral and civic imperative to update the social contract to take stock of modern circumstances and expand the circle of who is worthy of the fruits of American wealth.