After rewatching The Wire, I think it's safe to say Stringer>Avon.

[AnonymityX1000]

That's not true

Big dogs in real life do exactly that. They lunch legal business on the fundaments of illegal drug/weapon/human trafficking/extortion/etc... money
They convert into businessmen, into white collar criminals.
You won't see an Italian crime boss who's just hanging around the streets counting drug money and that's it... If a criminal organization is ambitious it tries to expand instead of focusing only on illegal money. They invest in real estate, constructions or anything what they can corrupt...
If they are more ambitious and they want to be more than just a street gang they start to build connections with "important people", politicans and such...


Stringer tried to do this exact same thing but he miscalculated himself plus Avon was an oldschool guy with an old honor codex and he just wanted this thing to remains a street gang relying on drug money...

That's the exception not the rule. Most criminals cannot go legit. Please name me all these former gangsters who did this successfully?

 

[FTBS]

Stringer was not built for the street aspect. He was a smart guy...had a good business mind...but the streets were just not for him. He thought he could use the streets at his convenience rather than abiding by the actual rules. It really seems like he lacked street smarts. You can't negotiate or talk your way out of everything. No doubt he was >> when it came to square shyt but they were in the streets. Avon navigated that world much better. When you think about it, that was the basis of their split. String was better suited for legit shyt and really couldn't abide by the code of the streets. Avon was better suited for the streets and really wasn't comfortable with the constraints of that legal life.

 

[Doomsday]

D'Angelo did catch that body. Where did you guys get that he didn't?

 

[reservoirdogs]

That's the exception not the rule. Most criminals cannot go legit. Please name me all these former gangsters who did this successfully?

I know more about mafia history than gangster history so I probalby won't name you American street level gangsters who did that but the fundaments and the levels are pretty much the same...

Big Italian and Italian-American crime families (but I could say Russian bratva, Triads, etc... too) were also more like bandits, gangs at the beginning but they reached out to other parts of the economy, into legitimate business and etc... so they could build up their organization... making much more money in the meantime than those ones who stayed street level.
My knowledge on American gangs is lacking compared to crime organizations but if I know it right there are (not Italian-American) American organizations too who are more than just simply street gangs/ornaizations strictly built on illegal money.


I didn't say it's easy to do btw, but that's what Stringer wanted to do, he had ambition to do so but he got played...

I doN't say that he was a good person either cause I don't think he was motivated by saving people from the drug wars with the co-op but simply as much money as possible but he was definitely one of the best characters.

Avon was also one of my favorit characters but he was an oldschool minded guy he lacked that kind of ambition Stinger had. Everyone can decides if that's a good or a bad thing.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

I know more about mafia history than gangster history so I probalby won't name you American street level gangsters who did that but the fundaments and the levels are pretty much the same...

Big Italian and Italian-American crime families (but I could say Russian bratva, Triads, etc... too) were also more like bandits, gangs at the beginning but they reached out to other parts of the economy, into legitimate business and etc... so they could build up their organization... making much more money in the meantime than those ones who stayed street level.
My knowledge on American gangs is lacking compared to crime organizations but if I know it right there are (not Italian-American) American organizations too who are more than just simply street gangs/ornaizations strictly built on illegal money.


I didn't say it's easy to do btw, but that's what Stringer wanted to do, he had ambition to do so but he got played...

I doN't say that he was a good person either cause I don't think he was motivated by saving people from the drug wars with the co-op but simply as much money as possible but he was definitely one of the best characters.

Avon was also one of my favorit characters but he was an oldschool minded guy he lacked that kind of ambition Stinger had. Everyone can decides if that's a good or a bad thing.

We are talking about two different things.
You are talking about crime organizations that are based on being a certain ethnicity and all their crime activities are to the upliftment of those people. That takes generations and is difficult to accomplish.
That's not what Avon, Stringer and Marlo were doing. They are selling drugs in their own community to their own ethnic group to enrich themselves. They and the commission Stringer set up are not in it for the long haul to 'go legitimate'. They were short sighted and didn't come at it from that angle, all they wanted was to cake off individually and keep the cops out of there business. No individual can play it like you are suggesting and make it to the end of the game that way, it takes a group that is dedicated to it generation after generation.

 

[reservoirdogs]

We are talking about two different things.
You are talking about crime organizations that are based on being a certain ethnicity and all their crime activities are to the upliftment of those people. That takes generations and is difficult to accomplish.
That's not what Avon, Stringer and Marlo were doing. They are selling drugs in their own community to their own ethnic group to enrich themselves. They and the commission Stringer set up are not in it for the long haul to 'go legitimate'. They were short sighted and didn't come at it from that angle, all they wanted was to cake off individually and keep the cops out of there business. No individual can play it like you are suggesting and make it to the end of the game that way, it takes a group that is dedicated to it generation after generation.

I know that but that this was Avon's and Marlo's motivation, Stringer however actually wanted to "level up" himself and the organization but he failed to do so. He bought a legit shop which actually functioned, he bought plenty of real estate, made "friendships" with politicans and etc...
I can definitely see this as a motivation to get richer and more subtle, a little away from the streets.
I mean... That's what his whole character about in the thirs season and that's his conflict with Avon.
I don't say that he wanted to build a crime family but he definitely wanted to be more than "just a street gang". He eventually failed though

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

D'Angelo did catch that body. Where did you guys get that he didn't?

we are talking about avon's girl... he said HE did it

then when the cops got on him, he admitted he was just told to go see her and wasn't even told there was gonna be a murder


then weebay verified the story that he did it without even knowing D snitched....



D was just telling nikkas in the pit a bunch of bullshyt to look hard

 

[Doomsday]

we are talking about avon's girl... he said HE did it

then when the cops got on him, he admitted he was just told to go see her and wasn't even told there was gonna be a murder


then weebay verified the story that he did it without even knowing D snitched....



D was just telling nikkas in the pit a bunch of bullshyt to look hard

LOL! You nikkas are slow no offense.

D'Angelo did catch that body. This is one of those situations where as an audience you are guilty of the same thing D'Angelo was speaking on: stereotyping. You look at D and his character and assume he ain't built like that therefore he wasn't worthy of respect. Thats what the clash with Bodie was all about.

D'Angelo was told what to say, to put all of the bodies on Weebay and Weebay knew what it was as well. Watch that scene again: the black detective rolled his eyes at D'Angelo, he knew D did it but there was no way to put him on the body when Weebay took all charges. Weebay had already took the charge but the detective wanted the actual killer to confess. D'Angelo caught a body, put it on Weebay as instructed, and took the other charges and didn't snitch throw anyone under the bus even though that's what Avon and his sister was afraid of.

D'angelo character was a clean honorable nikka being forced into living the live of a dirty nikka. A chess master with a gun. He did everything he was supposed to do. As an audience, no one liked D'Angelo because they watched the wire to see grimy heartless nikkas and he wasn't that. The director knew that as well. which is why the characters on-screen where equally annoyed by him. It's easy to assume he didn't catch that body because you feel a way about D'Angelo as a character. I'm humorously surprised there are people who think he lied when the narrative of the season let you know he did it. You guys need to pay more attention when you watch shyt. It wasn't in D'Angelo's character to lie about catching a body. If D was a snitch he woulda put ALL charges on Avon and Weebay and skated, but he didn't.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

LOL! You nikkas are slow no offense.

D'Angelo did catch that body. This is one of those situations where as an audience you are guilty of the same thing D'Angelo was speaking on: stereotyping. You look at D and his character and assume he ain't built like that therefore he wasn't worthy of respect. Thats what the clash with Bodie was all about.

D'Angelo was told what to say, to put all of the bodies on Weebay and Weebay knew what it was as well. Watch that scene again: the black detective rolled his eyes at D'Angelo, he knew D did it but there was no way to put him on the body when Weebay took all charges. Weebay had already took the charge but the detective wanted the actual killer to confess. D'Angelo caught a body, put it on Weebay as instructed, and took the other charges and didn't snitch throw anyone under the bus even though that's what Avon and his sister was afraid of.

D'angelo character was a clean honorable nikka being forced into living the live of a dirty nikka. A chess master with a gun. He did everything he was supposed to do. As an audience, no one liked D'Angelo because they watched the wire to see grimy heartless nikkas and he wasn't that. The director knew that as well. which is why the characters on-screen where equally annoyed by him. It's easy to assume he didn't catch that body because you feel a way about D'Angelo as a character. I'm humorously surprised there are people who think he lied when the narrative of the season let you know he did it. You guys need to pay more attention when you watch shyt. It wasn't in D'Angelo's character to lie about catching a body. If D was a snitch he woulda put ALL charges on Avon and Weebay and skated, but he didn't.

smart dumb nikka coming in to tell us how we are all dumb



It seemed so out-of-character for the series -- Simon and Burns rarely misled viewers about something that big, for that long -- and so I asked Simon why he chose to do it that way:


"There are clues in HOW D'Angelo tells the story -- his dramatic hesitation at the moment of truth, when it comes time to actually describe him shooting her in the face after the tap tap tap -- he hesitates, can't say specifically what he did next. A character was lying, taking credit for being more gangster than he actually is. No way to show this without simply throwing the lie out there. It would be lame and false to have him confess his lie in the next moment, even to someone else. People don't behave that way. So he lies. But in the writing and performance there are clues to a careful viewer that something is amiss with D'Angelo's account. And ultimately, when we hear the true story, we are certain (or should be certain) what it is. He is telling Wee-Bey's story, claiming it for his own. It works with the Pit Crew -- save perhaps for Bodie, who still doubts. But even D'Angelo, as he lies, is taken aback by his own claims of brutality. Watch the performance again.

We didn't have Wee-Bey recount it because it was a better window into the soul of D'Angelo to watch him use it falsely and stumble through it emotionally. Wee-Bey would've just told the story, serving the overt plot only."


http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2008/06/wire-season-1-episode-4-old-cases_20.html


then look at this... he tells on weebay WAY before avon told him to put it on weebay.. and he was offered immunity to give up all his crimes so there was no reason to lie on it

 

[Doomsday]

smart dumb nikka coming in to tell us how we are all dumb

You are. The narrative makes it clear D'Angelo caught that body. He had motive and everything. You don't like D'Angelo as a character so your bias makes you think he didn't do it when he clearly did.

It seemed so out-of-character for the series -- Simon and Burns rarely misled viewers about something that big, for that long -- and so I asked Simon why he chose to do it that way:

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2008/06/wire-season-1-episode-4-old-cases_20.html


then look at this... he tells on weebay WAY before avon told him to put it on weebay.. and he was offered immunity to give up all his crimes so there was no reason to lie on it

Wrong, and you quoting a random blog doesn't mean anything lol.

That doesn't make sense. Why the hell would Avon tell him to put it on Weebay if D'Angelo already did that? Stupid they would know he put it on Weebay already and woulda said something about it in that case. They tell D'Angelo to put it on Weebay then tell Weebay to take all charges. They both do as instructed it doesn't matter who gets interrogated first. Just admit you are wrong. The detective already looked into it and knew D'Angelo did it. D'Angelo didn't lie or snitch, if that was the case he woulda told EVERYTHING and SKATED but he ended up getting locked up. Why the fukk would someone HALF-WAY snitch? Lol stupid.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

You are. The narrative makes it clear D'Angelo caught that body. He had motive and everything. You don't like D'Angelo as a character so your bias makes you think he didn't do it when he clearly did.






Wrong, and you quoting a random blog doesn't mean anything lol.

That doesn't make sense. Why the hell would Avon tell him to put it on Weebay if D'Angelo already did that? Stupid they would know he put it on Weebay already and woulda said something about it in that case. They tell D'Angelo to put it on Weebay then tell Weebay to take all charges. They both do as instructed it doesn't matter who gets interrogated first. Just admit you are wrong. The detective already looked into it and knew D'Angelo did it. D'Angelo didn't lie or snitch, if that was the case he woulda told EVERYTHING and SKATED but he ended up getting locked up. Why the fukk would someone HALF-WAY snitch? Lol stupid.

random blog

that's david simon.... the creator of the fukking show breh in the quotes



second.. D was snitching 1-2 eps before avon knew a damn thing... and it was his mother who simply told him not to snitch.. therefore he never signed the statements, therefore they couldn't use the statements against anyone


what the hell show was you watching bro


edit: as a matter of fact, avon never even spoke to d after that

avon tells d to get the drugs from nyc... they pick it up on the mic in the office.. they pull over d... they tell him to snitch and wallace is dead... d doesn't believe it.. stringer visits and he asks "where's wallace string" he then dumps levy as his lawyer...

that's when you get the scene i posted... he was snitching straight up for immunity and his kid and his girl to start over.... was gonna have the new lawyer look it over and sign it in the AM


mom finds out where the cops is hiding him.. goes to visit... d tells her he can start a new life... she convinces him that's a bad idea... she never tells avon he was gonna snitch cause she knew avon would kill him... just says he's gonna stand tall

weebay gets arrested on the info that d tells the cops... the location... but not that murder.. he's arrested for shooting gregs actually

avon gets word to weebay to take all the charges... still never speaks to D about blaming the shyt on weebay... weebay eats the charges... THEY NEVER FIND OUT D IS THE ONE WHO SNITCHED CAUSE D NEVER SIGNED THE PAPERWORK



this is why in season 3, mcnaulty goes to d's mom and says "honestly i didn't think you'd care.. i mean you was the one who got him to recant his story right?" and his mom is all sad and shyt cause it's true







again..... take what i said... or rewatch it... or take what the creator said.... or keep on with your fairytales

but either way you slice it, you dead wrong

 

[Doomsday]

random blog

that's david simon.... the creator of the fukking show breh in the quotes



second.. D was snitching 1-2 eps before avon knew a damn thing... and it was his mother who simply told him not to snitch.. therefore he never signed the statements, therefore they couldn't use the statements against anyone


what the hell show was you watching bro

That's not David Simons blog its a random blog with a random quote. D'Angelo caught the body and was told to put everything on Weebay. That's why the detective was disappointed because he wanted D'Angelo to confess to his body.

If he verbally confessed they can use it against him. You need to watch the show again.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

That's not David Simons blog its a random blog with a random quote. D'Angelo caught the body and was told to put everything on Weebay. That's why the detective was disappointed because he wanted D'Angelo to confess to his body.

If he verbally confessed they can use it against him. You need to watch the show again.

 

[SchrodingersStrapped!]

Italians did it

Russians , Chinese and Japanese tew

 

[Verbal Kint]

Stringer was not built for the street aspect. He was a smart guy...had a good business mind...but the streets were just not for him. He thought he could use the streets at his convenience rather than abiding by the actual rules. It really seems like he lacked street smarts. You can't negotiate or talk your way out of everything. No doubt he was >> when it came to square shyt but they were in the streets. Avon navigated that world much better. When you think about it, that was the basis of their split. String was better suited for legit shyt and really couldn't abide by the code of the streets. Avon was better suited for the streets and really wasn't comfortable with the constraints of that legal life.

Ya'll keep saying this nonsense and completely ignore that String was the 1A in the biggest drug operation in the city. How can you not have streetsmarts and get to that point? Avon even talks about when they was young nikkas shoplifting so it ain't like he came around later, String was there from the jump. He was handling business, ordering hits, doing all sorts of stuff and the police were nowhere near touching him. All his mistakes came from trying to clean up the mess when he went behind Avon's back with the Prop Joe stuff. nikkas act like cause they saw String as a grown man trying to make different moves that he'd never been in the streets. He was trying to do what all those that actually make it out/profit from that game do and use it to launch to bigger things. Just like those organized crime cats do. They eventually get far away from the day to day. Shoot look at the Greeks in the show. They were far removed from the nitty gritty of what they did, just had meets here and there