African lion vs Salt water crocodile

[Farrinto]

How can anyone with rational thinking capabilities believe that in the 1850's, a healthy, full sized African Lion was imported to a then rural California, and made to fight a Grizzly Bear only to find that the Lion had thin skulls?

There are Humans that fight off bear attacks with knives lol... I don't think anyone can fight off a Lion with just a knife.

QI : Quite Interesting

"They used to pit grizzlies against bulls, but the bearsalways won easily by using their paw as a club. Tired with the lack of suspense, they shipped in Africanlions to raise the stakes. The lions had a reputation for rushing fiercely into the attack and looking very promising at the outset, but in the event the grizzlies killed them as easily as they did the bulls.

The bear’s edge lies in deploying its enormously strong bone density against the thin skull of the lion (lion strength is more muscular than structural).Lions and tigers bring down their prey by applying a windpipe lock, but they never got the chance to use this technique as the bears would flatten them with a hammer blow first."

It's a documented fact that lions have a light bone structure.

 

[Broke Wave]

QI : Quite Interesting

"They used to pit grizzlies against bulls, but the bearsalways won easily by using their paw as a club. Tired with the lack of suspense, they shipped in Africanlions to raise the stakes. The lions had a reputation for rushing fiercely into the attack and looking very promising at the outset, but in the event the grizzlies killed them as easily as they did the bulls.

The bear’s edge lies in deploying its enormously strong bone density against the thin skull of the lion (lion strength is more muscular than structural).Lions and tigers bring down their prey by applying a windpipe lock, but they never got the chance to use this technique as the bears would flatten them with a hammer blow first."

It's a documented fact that lions have a light bone structure.

that is a weak source

 

[Sword]

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5804796/a-brief-history-of-bears-fighting-lions

"Modern lion skulls are thin enough that one decent blow from a bear will crush it, killing the lion
instantly."

"California settlers during the Gold Rush found this out the cruel way, as they organized fights between bears and various other animals as a rather sick way to pass the time, eventually shipping in African lions in a futile attempt to give the bears a challenge."

California Gold Rush Bear Fights

"They imported African lions to fight bears because none of the other animals were lasting very long. I would love to see someone try to explain that situation at customs today. The Gold Rushers thought that if there was one creature that could stand up to a bear, it must be the King of the Beasts. Unfortunately, after several attempts, they realized that lions' skulls are actually quite thin and before they could get anywhere near the bear, it would bop it on the head like a Whack-A-Mole and kill it."

lol You even had to enlarge the letters? Ha ha, well for one, this story is actually repeated on over 200 books, over the past century, whats the problem with books? They could be published by anyone without having to be fact checked, but now in this era, we have things called newspaper archives, so we can fact check things our selves. Lets check that out:

That source you got there got it from QI, which even ask a biologist web site admitted they got it from QI, heres them stating so themselves:
adult male lion vs. grizzley bear (Page 1) - Mammals - Ask a Biologist Q&A

QI stated they got it from tevis, tevis is quoted in the great bear almanac:

The Grizzly Almanac

The fight didnt happen in californias gold miners, one of the books who cited it was just called California's gold rush, hence the BS added in story, tevis even cites the lions name....parnell.

The books written, decades to centurys later... none were even alive at the time, and they just changed the written stuff as the decades had re-written them, and the articles to the date it happened showed it wasnt the bear that killed Parnell but the bull panthera, the fight wasnt even that fair, they basically handicapped parnell, the 4th bull fight they lassoed parnell and basically leading him in like a sitting duck:
Meriden Daily Republican - Google News Archive Search

Kentucky New Era - Google News Archive Search

Most likely tevis the dumbass mixed up that fight with parnell where the article states the lion was thrown twice...tevis wrote about it in his book in 1955, no dought he twisted it from this fact twister:
Beaver Valley Times - Google News Archive Search

See, its easy to add in things from storys and combine them with others thats real, the same year parnell fought the bear, there were already alot of...storys and moralistic types floating around in one article:
Eugene Register-Guard - Google News Archive Search

Then 20 years later is transmuted into this pile of crap:
The Spokesman-Review - Google News Archive Search

Again, look at the date of these incidents, they happed nearly a 100 years after the fight, heres the articles that all covered the fight the week it happened:

The year it happened it was reported by (its content are in the OCR text):

The Weekly Gazette And Stockman from Reno, Nevada · Page 6
Great Falls Weekly Tribune from Great Falls, Montana · Page 3
Los Angeles Herald from Los Angeles, California · Page 3

It was reported the bull killed the lion the same week by:
The Springfield Leader from Springfield, Missouri ... - Newspapers.com
The Osage County Chronicle from Burlingame, Kansas · Page 6
Garnett Journal from Garnett, Kansas · Page 2 - Newspapers.com
Lawrence Weekly World from Lawrence, Kansas · Page 1
Decatur Daily Republican from Decatur, Illinois · Page 2
The Cheney Sentinel from Cheney, Kansas · Page 1


So as the ages went along, you went from:

Bear and lion fight...its a draw. >>>>>>>>>>>>another decade

To: Bear throws lion>>>>>>>>>>>another decade

To: Bear kills lion >>>>>>>a century later

To: Present day (YOU) bears can crush many lion and bull skulls

There was no fights in California with lions, it was moved to mexico. All the same books even states one of the lions name was Parnell the exact same lion as these storys about fighting a bear, his brother sultan even killed a small performing bear.
San Francisco Call 3 March 1894 — California Digital Newspaper Collection

But why did they do that, why did they change it from lion won to bear won? Because they were bias, the bear is California's state animal, of course they wouldn't want to let the news out that there native animal lost to a foreign one, we can see they were betting against the lion parnell from the get go:
http://cbsrfs.ucr.edu/batches/batch_curiv_plasse/sn85042461/0028076954A/1894032501/0248.pdf

What you present is nothing new, some other guys already exposed that fight too:

【资料】一些雄狮和棕熊、北极熊战斗的详细记录_美洲虎吧_百度贴吧

The bear didnt crush any lions skull, he had a draw in round one and lost round 2. I dont need to take your word for it, we can read the incident the week it happened:
The sun. (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, April 14, 1895, Part 4, Page 8, Image 30

The funny thing is, Parnell killed 2 keepers, killed a bear named monarch and siskiyou, stale mated ramadan the bear with even beating him in round 2, then killed a goat and killed three of the four bulls, with the 4th bull named panthera finally killing Parnell the lion.

In one hand you have people now days in books and media twisting things about something a 100 years ago.

In the other hand, we have over 20 different news archives who were fukking there at this very same fight the books is talking about.

Hmmm, which one should I believe, the ones who weren't even born yet, or the ones who were present at that fight? Tough one.

 

[Farrinto]

lol You even had to enlarge the letters? Ha ha, well for one, this story is actually repeated on over 200 books, over the past century, whats the problem with books? They could be published by anyone without having to be fact checked, but now in this era, we have things called newspaper archives, so we can fact check things our selves. Lets check that out:

That source you got there got it from QI, which even ask a biologist web site admitted they got it from QI, heres them stating so themselves:
adult male lion vs. grizzley bear (Page 1) - Mammals - Ask a Biologist Q&A

QI stated they got it from tevis, tevis is quoted in the great bear almanac:

The Grizzly Almanac

The fight didnt happen in californias gold miners, one of the books who cited it was just called California's gold rush, hence the BS added in story, tevis even cites the lions name....parnell.

The books written, decades to centurys later... none were even alive at the time, and they just changed the written stuff as the decades had re-written them, and the articles to the date it happened showed it wasnt the bear that killed Parnell but the bull panthera, the fight wasnt even that fair, they basically handicapped parnell, the 4th bull fight they lassoed parnell and basically leading him in like a sitting duck:
Meriden Daily Republican - Google News Archive Search

Kentucky New Era - Google News Archive Search

Most likely tevis the dumbass mixed up that fight with parnell where the article states the lion was thrown twice...tevis wrote about it in his book in 1955, no dought he twisted it from this fact twister:
Beaver Valley Times - Google News Archive Search

See, its easy to add in things from storys and combine them with others thats real, the same year parnell fought the bear, there were already alot of...storys and moralistic types floating around in one article:
Eugene Register-Guard - Google News Archive Search

Then 20 years later is transmuted into this pile of crap:
The Spokesman-Review - Google News Archive Search

Again, look at the date of these incidents, they happed nearly a 100 years after the fight, heres the articles that all covered the fight the week it happened:

The year it happened it was reported by (its content are in the OCR text):

The Weekly Gazette And Stockman from Reno, Nevada · Page 6
Great Falls Weekly Tribune from Great Falls, Montana · Page 3
Los Angeles Herald from Los Angeles, California · Page 3

It was reported the bull killed the lion the same week by:
The Springfield Leader from Springfield, Missouri ... - Newspapers.com
The Osage County Chronicle from Burlingame, Kansas · Page 6
Garnett Journal from Garnett, Kansas · Page 2 - Newspapers.com
Lawrence Weekly World from Lawrence, Kansas · Page 1
Decatur Daily Republican from Decatur, Illinois · Page 2
The Cheney Sentinel from Cheney, Kansas · Page 1


So as the ages went along, you went from:

Bear and lion fight...its a draw. >>>>>>>>>>>>another decade

To: Bear throws lion>>>>>>>>>>>another decade

To: Bear kills lion >>>>>>>a century later

To: Present day (YOU) bears can crush many lion and bull skulls

There was no fights in California with lions, it was moved to mexico. All the same books even states one of the lions name was Parnell the exact same lion as these storys about fighting a bear, his brother sultan even killed a small performing bear.
San Francisco Call 3 March 1894 — California Digital Newspaper Collection

But why did they do that, why did they change it from lion won to bear won? Because they were bias, the bear is California's state animal, of course they wouldn't want to let the news out that there native animal lost to a foreign one, we can see they were betting against the lion parnell from the get go:
http://cbsrfs.ucr.edu/batches/batch_curiv_plasse/sn85042461/0028076954A/1894032501/0248.pdf

What you present is nothing new, some other guys already exposed that fight too:

【资料】一些雄狮和棕熊、北极熊战斗的详细记录_美洲虎吧_百度贴吧

The bear didnt crush any lions skull, he had a draw in round one and lost round 2. I dont need to take your word for it, we can read the incident the week it happened:
The sun. (New York [N.Y.]) 1833-1916, April 14, 1895, Part 4, Page 8, Image 30

The funny thing is, Parnell killed 2 keepers, killed a bear named monarch and siskiyou, stale mated ramadan the bear with even beating him in round 2, then killed a goat and killed three of the four bulls, with the 4th bull named panthera finally killing Parnell the lion.

In one hand you have people now days in books and media twisting things about something a 100 years ago.

In the other hand, we have over 20 different news archives who were fukking there at this very same fight the books is talking about.

Hmmm, which one should I believe, the ones who weren't even born yet, or the ones who were present at that fight? Tough one.

Alright, you win. I have to give it up, you know your shyt. I still think a Grizzly could at least put up a good fight (or win) against a lion but damn Parnell was a beast

 

[Sword]

The bear’s edge lies in deploying its enormously strong bone density against the thin skull of the lion (lion strength is more muscular than structural).Lions and tigers bring down their prey by applying a windpipe lock, but they never got the chance to use this technique as the bears would flatten them with a hammer blow first."

It's a documented fact that lions have a light bone structure.

No, it is not a documented fact, it is something anyone can make up, anyone can make it up by twisting bone robustness with actual bone density: the lions bones in the front is just as dense:

This was the other source which showed the lion had denser bones than the kodiak in certain places of the limbs:

You can see some other stuff here:
lion and tiger bone density in Lion vs Tiger Discussion Forum

Bears only look imposing because of their added fur around their whole body, without it, you see no muscle formation:

Compared to a full fluffed out hair:

There is nothing hidden about the lions stature:

You still haven't shown a single feat of a bear crushing anything with a blow from his paws.

 

[Sword]

Alright, you win. I have to give it up, you know your shyt. I still think a Grizzly could at least put up a good fight (or win) against a lion but damn Parnell was a beast

lol Its no bigges, people should atleast try an fact check things a little bit. I dont think the bear would win more against a prime lion, there isnt anything that would suggest it would out match the lions feats. The other accounts of bears killing lions show its not a stomp, but account for account, the lions is not just more in quantity but quality too. For instance, the bear wins had just a bear attacking a lion unawares, bit him and broke his back, they didnt even go into detail if it was a young lion or what evers.

The lion killing bear accounts, atleast they state the bear was 900 pounds president (a guys name), or 1,750 lbs (monarch a guys name), peary, silver king, and many more mention male names, state the bear was big, huge or twice the size of the lion. And yet the lion still killed them with one blow or one bite to the neck. Parnell was a boss, but I'd still back a fighting bull against a bear or lion. Parnell is up there, but other lions like Boss tweeds who killed three tigers at once, King who killed a 1,000 pound tiger, Prince who killed 5 tigers over his years and Brutus who killed a big polar bear are up there if not more powerful then him.

 

[Sword]

On a side note, I think a coalition of males can take out the largest bear species. Since single lions can drop a 6,000 lb elephant, no bear species is even half that weight.

 

[2stainz]

On a side note, I think a coalition of males can take out the largest bear species. Since single lions can drop a 6,000 lb elephant, no bear species is even half that weight.

Didnt know Polar were 2nd biggest. whats the one on the very far end...the biggest one? Grizzly?

 

[Farrinto]

On a side note, I think a coalition of males can take out the largest bear species. Since single lions can drop a 6,000 lb elephant, no bear species is even half that weight.

Do you think an African lion could take out a Siberian tiger?

 

[Sword]

Didnt know Polar were 2nd biggest. whats the one on the very far end...the biggest one? Grizzly?

What? The polar bear is the fifth one there, the rest of the four bigger bears are extinct.

 

[2stainz]

What? The polar bear is the fifth one there, the rest of the four bigger bears are extinct.

damn nature you scary

 

[Sword]

Do you think an African lion could take out a Siberian tiger?

Yup
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/barbary-lion-vs-siberian-tiger.419272

The posts are kinda going off topic at this point, this is the lion vs croc thread, so if you wanna debate the lion vs tiger, you should go to that thread.

 

[Sword]

Many animals co-exist with elephants, soth bears, himilayan brown bears, tigers, ect. Yet only lions are ever shown actively hunting elephants, if they can bring down a 6,000 lb elephant, a bear no matter what size can still be brought'n down, same goes with crocodile, a lion can hold and control a crocodile long enough for a fatal bite. .

 

[rantanamo]

why does this thread talk about small salties?

 

[Sword]

why does this thread talk about small salties?

We are talking averages here, but feel free to post in crocs weighing over 2 tons or of crocs bringing down 6,000 pound animals.