African chick who has lived in the US for 10 years asks whether she can speak on black issues that affect her in the US. FBA say no!

EndDomination

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FBA isn't real.

Clowns on the internet who have no real power, no ideology, no plan, no arms, entirely useless.

Ignoring them is the best decision I've made (other than being on this site - where they pop up pretending like they're ever going to be a relevant force - at least "ADOS" has adherents who are legitimate scholars and interested in Black liberation), not infighting with the African diaspora.
 

Inokja

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Part 1:

Thanks for the long response. I had a long response as well, but it got deleted before I finished it, so I was annoyed. But I've come back to respond again. Excuse me if it is hard to read:


I agree with you that the hashtaggers are a problem. They exploit reactionism in an attempt to radicalize an audience fed to them via algorithm*.

What do I mean by this?

With respect to the two discourses I mentioned in my original post (#249), I feel the people in the second discourse are confused on why it appears they are being lumped in with those of the first. And this, along with reacitonism coming from multiple directions, leads to people talking past each other, leading to more reaction-ism.

Particularly, the confusion lies in the desire for a specific ethnonym being labeled as divisive and separatist by others. Those of the 2nd discourse are confused at some of the reactions they perceive themselves to be receiving for partaking in it. Because to them, "How can an ethnonym be "divisive" for themselves, but not divisive for everybody else who has ethnonyms?"
"How is it divisive when they acknowledge their distinct ethnoculture, when said critics of such acknowledgement were the original 'delineaters' themselves when they originally arrived and felt America was lumping them together with Black Americans, and erasing their distinct identity, so made assure to assert and validate who they were culturally?" Some Black Americans interpreted this as clannishness or a rejection of pan-Africanism and American black racial identity politics in favor of ethnocentric tribalism/nationalism; that immigrants were behaving no different than what they felt other nonblack immigrants did in opposition to the so called "POC solidarity". Black immigrants were apparently following in the footsteps of keep your head down, work hard, and stay away from "those people'; except even more distressing since it seemed to be coming from other black people who they had felt they were essentially going to form Voltron with politically to combat antiblackness/white supremacy or something (perception that increased black immigrants would feed into black identity politics, similar to the way the endless waves of european immigrants eventually fed into white identity politics).

However, from the renewed perspective of the second discourse, all those who are a part of it are doing is realizing the flaws and oversimplification in that above interpretation, are acknowledging this delineation of immigrants as legitimate, (As you stated in your original post that I first responded to, acknowldging your national heritage is not a rejection of blackness,) and now validating their own ethnocultural identity in the same exact fashion. It is not a separation from different ethnicities, or from blackness, but merely acknowledging they are their own distinct group of black people, just as everybody else are their own respective groups, which was already acknowledged by said other groups in question in the first place.

They don't realize that those accusing them of separatism are reacting to the aformentioned hashtaggers/chaos agents, conflating them together, which was my original point in #249. 2nd discourse dwellers already may also have identity insecurity issues as a result of being a minority population.

(cont in #350 )
 
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Inokja

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Part 2 continued from #349:

The hastaggers capitalize both on this conflation, and this insecurity, by using this backlash and accusations of separatism as confirmation bias of their rhetoric to the 2nd discourse dwellers (2ndDDs), in an attempt to pull them over to the 1st discourse. They will pick certain content and piece together a narrative:.

When 2nd discourse participants attempt the aforementioned self validation of their identity, 1st discourse participants will seize on it, invoke posts of others telling them with "They don't have a culture", and other greatest hits delegitimizing their ethnoculture. Essentially signalling: 'Hey, come look at how they really feel about us'. This pokes the aforementioned insecurity, while potentially invoking defensiveness and reactionism. With respect to the questioning of the authenticity of ethnoculture, It seen as having welcomed others into your house, they live there for a while and you feel you are all housemates, and one day while relaxed and having their feet up on the table, they say "this isn't even a proper house, my house is a real, actual house", and so on to the point of saying it's not even the owner's house in the first place.

2ndDDs essentially perceive a dynamic in which the openness of Black American culture leads to it being used as a public park, while other cultures are private property. Others can come to the park, use it however, set up whatever they need for recreation, and then go back to their private property at their leisure, and continue to come and go as they please. And if there is an attempt to "privatize the 'park', or any section of it" (gatekeeping), it is met with indignation from the 'park' users, "this 'park' doesn't belong you you, it belongs to everyone" which causes indignation in return. Even more indignation comes from the accusations of separatism or xenophobia despite Black American culture's openness and opposite of xenophobia being what led to the dynamic in the first place. Furthermore, the notion that gatekeeping is illegitimate reinforces the perception/insecurity that they are not seen as a legitimate people group.

There is a sense that the openness of Black American culture has been seen instead as exploitable weakness, not used in good faith, and that they have been played for suckers. People who they (2nd discourse folks) thought they were part of an overarching collective ingroup with, instead seem to actually have seen them as outgroups the entire time, all while benefiting from the association to, or labor of Black Americans. All of the above, is the perception that 1st discourse participants carefully curate with content they have collected (*with help from the aformentioned algorythmic amplified ragebait, and other things taken out of context), and then once a solid foundation is established, it is what they build their camp upon. And it is then that they then bring with them all the antagonistic elements that you have mentioned in your post. They open the mouth of their target audience by invoking their insecurities, and then feed them to amplify them in a vicous cycle.

This perception gets reinforced and corrupted until you have ridiculous statements like some responses to the tweet in the original post of this thread saying that a black person apparently cannot being able to speak on black issues, out of some form of overcompensating, belated and misplaced gatekeeping.

Although 1st Discourse "hashtaggers" are a minority as we have agreed upon, they compensate for this and assist in observers doing the previously mentioned conflation of them as "the face of a now unified discourse" by radicalizing as many 2nd discourse dwellers as possible. They do this until said people are reduced essentially to attack dogs that lash out at any perceived slight, in some cases, purposefully punching below the belt and being as cruel as possible in a sort of scorched earth policy. And then you cannot tell the difference between the two discourses. This leaves out the existence of majority of 2nd discourse dwellers who are not radicalized at all, and the 3rd party element of the population composed of those who are not even involved in online discourse at all (majority of population/grasstouchers). Unfortunately, this only escalates the situation as the recieving end of the scored earth policy uses instances of extreme lashing out as a poster for the entire demographic, and then proceeds to returns fire. You see this in people making declarative statements about entire populations, and their bibliography is "lol I saw some posts on Twitter/tiktok" AKA chronically online. Originally both sides would probably never engage in such rhetoric to each other, but now feel they must compensate for the other's cruelty. By the way this is not "both siderism". I am just breaking down the anatomy of reactionism.

I'm still annoyed since my original response was way more cohesive and covered more stuff, but I felt you deserved a response by now, even if it is unfortunately a wall of text. Later.
 
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Tair

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No they are not and studies prove it.

You are entirely correct.

On one occasion, he and a group of students boarded a racially segregated bus in Atlanta wearing traditional African clothes and were allowed to sit anywhere they wanted because they were not identified as African Americans, who had to sit at the back.


We were targeted (and still are) because of our lineage, not "race."

I despise people that lie or are disingenuous.
 

Dwight Howard

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No they are not and studies prove it.
The idea that a Haitan would get treated differently than an african american based on lineage is not reality, the oppressor sees both as the same. Remember the term "colored folks"?...what do you think "colored" refers to? Skin color. Definetly not lineage
 

Voice of Reason

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The idea that a Haitan would get treated differently than an african american based on lineage is not reality, the oppressor sees both as the same. Remember the term "colored folks"?...what do you think "colored" refers to? Skin color. Definetly not lineage


We are not the same people you are an immigrant that hates Lebron because he's a prominent FBA man.
 

that guy

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Maybe you missed my point. In the context of race in America....racist people, institutions, systems, laws, etc. dont care about your lineage, they care that you have black features.
You keep repeating this. It’s not true.

1. Caucasians have a long and extensive history of exploiting the ethnic differences within nations such as in Rwanda, the Congo, Nigeria, Iraq etc.

You think white supremacist understand the cultural difference between a Tutsi/Hutu, Sunni/shia, kikuyu/mau mau etc. but don’t see the difference between an African-American and a black immigrant from kenya for example? :skip:

2. You’re thinking of racism on a social level. Yes some racist Karen doesn’t see the difference between black people and African-Americans, but institutional racism is much more complex.

3. Both Kamala and Obama are the only black people to reach the presidential level of government and neither one of them have an African-American ancestor. Both of them are indifferent at best to black American issues. Kamala Harris flat out said she’s against the very idea of reparations. You think that’s a coincidence?
 

Numero Deux

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Maybe you missed my point. In the context of race in America....racist people, institutions, systems, laws, etc. dont care about your lineage, they care that you have black features.
Kofi Annan, the Ghanaian former UN secretary general, while a student in the United States, visited the South at the height of the civil rights movement. He was in need of a haircut, but this being the Jim Crow era, a white barber told him "I do not cut ****** hair." To which Kofi Annan promptly replied "I am not a ******, I am an African." The anecdote, as narrated in Stanley Meisler's Kofi Annan: A Man of Peace in a World of War, ends with him getting his hair cut.

I order a beer and the white guy next to me says, "Where are you from? Where is your accent from?" I say, "Kenya." Relief, followed by the words "Welcome to America. I thought you were one of them." The thirsty writer in me is intrigued. Now that I am on the inside, I can ask "What do you mean?" "Well, you know how they are," followed by a litany of stereotypes. Eventually, I say my piece but the guy looks at me with pity: "You will see what I mean." Never mind that to his "Welcome to America," I said I had been in the US for 20 years

African in America or African American? | Mukoma Wa Ngugi
 

K.O.N.Y

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My only issue is her saying she's not black.. She mostly definitely is black.. She's a black African person.. Just like how there are white African people.. My family is originally from West Africa Sierra Leone but me and my sisters were born here in the United States and YOU GOT DAMN RIGHT I CAN SPEAK ON ISSUES THAT AFFECT ME AS A AFRICAN AMERICAN BLACK MAN LIVING IN THE U.S.
Thank you for highlighting why fba/ados is necessary :beli:
 

JackRoss

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you talk like this because you hate your life. It's not my fault your life sucks
Nah. I love my life. You fake, phony weird nikkas get no passes. That's why you responded to me. Hit dogs
 
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