African borders need to be redrawn, we can all agree on this but do have the stomach to stand aside?

[ejthompson23]

I'm dead serious.

Lets say we give Africa like 10 years to re-organize...

DO you have the patience and stomach to let them self-organize?

Cause millions will probably die in the process.

Sorry to say it bt Africa is beyond helping...we just have to let them be...they are 50-75 behind the rest of the world...killing twins for whatever reason...we just have to let them be...

 

[Poitier]

The AU broadly agreed on maintaining the old borders. I dont see how they could be redrawn without conflict and causing more problems than they would solve. It would also lead to some non-viable nations with even some minimal groupings used as a basis of nationhood. Once some group decides to form their own country with the oil, gold or diamonds then everything will disintegrate.

The AU isn't the will of the citizens, though. Balkanization would fail initially for many of the reasons that you state but out of it, you would end up with true countries with true identities that wouldn't have the ethnic bullshyt. I think it has merit and places like the Horn and Nigeria may be broken up anyway.

 

[Kritic]

If you want to give Israel free reign to redraw borders, thats on you. I was being nice. You know what happens if you give them that free pass. I'm talking more about the Picot-Sykes boundaries. Seems like those ISIS folks have a big issue with it along with many other Arabs. I'm saying lets let them redraw their own boundaries and see how it works out. Israel is an exaggerated "problem" of the ME that has been used for decades by ME dictators to draw attention away from the real problems they faced at home.

you mean the same isis folks trained by israel in jordan
same radicals called hamas israel created and funds on the low
where did sadaam get chemical weapons from

 

[TTT]

The AU isn't the will of the citizens, though. Balkanization would fail initially for many of the reasons that you state but out of it, you would end up with true countries with true identities that wouldn't have the ethnic bullshyt. I think it has merit and places like the Horn and Nigeria may be broken up anyway.

In this case the AU shows some foresight and many ethnic groups in Africa also have another sub strata of identification. They may look like one ethnic group but you could break them down by dialects and that is another potential danger. South Sudan broke away and they started fighting among themselves. The ethnic identity that is made salient by contrast from other ethnic groups does not imply unity in those groups. And in any case even the groups that straddle across borders start developing some identities of their own so it is not as simple as it would appear. The larger issue is always going to be about the resources and money, i can guarantee that no group is just going to leave the country with the bulk of resources without descending into utter chaos.

 

[Poitier]

In this case the AU shows some foresight and many ethnic groups in Africa also have another sub strata of identification. They may look like one ethnic group but you could break them down by dialects and that is another potential danger. South Sudan broke away and they started fighting among themselves. The ethnic identity that is made salient by contrast from other ethnic groups does not imply unity in those groups. And in any case even the groups that straddle across borders start developing some identities of their own so it is not as simple as it would appear. The larger issue is always going to be about the resources and money, i can guarantee that no group is just going to leave the country with the bulk of resources without descending into utter chaos.

Why do you think the institutions and national identity isn't there en masse in a lot of these nations? The IMF and World bank? Puppet leaders?

 

[Poitier]

Like the 100 Years War, War of Roses and The Reconquest of Spain was HUGE in forming Western cohesion. State and identity formation is such a organic thing and hard to facilitate artificially.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yup came here to say this. Lets let the Middle East redraw their own borders and see how that works out for them, good or bad.

thing is...you can't get shyt like ISIS pop off. We need another Turkey

 

[TTT]

Why do you think the institutions and national identity isn't there en masse in a lot of these nations? The IMF and World bank? Puppet leaders?

The reasons vary from country to country, there weren't too many nation builder type of leaders compared to ones that sought to take advantage of numerical superiority of their ethnic group. Once they took the latter route it just started becoming a game of numbers and leaders willing to exploit their advantage. It is also a question of timing you had to be in the right place at the right time when the handover was taking place. Other countries found uniform nation languages such as Swahili and Lingala but the numbers game was exploited.

 

[KOohbt]

Maybe eventually the idea of nations will be pointless.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

@Napoleon

You know you're calling for the genocide of small ethnic groups who cannot forge their own states because of their numerical inferiority. Although ethnicity in the status quo often leads to conflict, it doesn't necessitate genocide - but that's what you're calling for. If this were ever seriously done, it would set Africa back 500 years. The states have been created. If ethnic groups wish to leave states, let them do so peacefully via democratic referendums.

Africans leaders need to forge nationalist identities which surpass religion and ethnicity.

 

[Poitier]

Africans leaders need to forge nationalist identities which surpass religion and ethnicity.

Thats not some easy thing to do and still might lead to bloodshed.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Thats not some easy thing to do and still might lead to bloodshed.

You are correct. But as a member of an ethnicity which was already threatened with genocide in the 20th century, it's worth a try.

 

[Black smoke and cac jokes]

Eritrea is one of the smallest nation in Africa with around 4 million people. There's 9 official tribes and many more that all want to have their own boarders.


Imagine the problems Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, and other large countries will have with splitting up what they currently have. I would imagine that old African societies, precolonization, would naturally come together and share common laws etc like states in USA, but reorganizing now wouldn't work.

 

[Poitier]

Imagine the problems Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, and other large countries will have with splitting up .

Its happening as we speak.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Well since you brought it up.....:hugoehh:

.....this is what I'm hoping for.