ACCORDING TO 17TH CENTURY CAC ARTWORK, INDIANS IN THE AMERICAS LOOKED LIKE THIS??

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Not really because "these animals are drawn badly so every depiction is false" isnt an argument. You can keep repeating it, but it doesnt make it an argument.

No, the argument is, "You're promoting a drawing by people who had NEVER BEEN to America, who drew EVERYTHING from there badly."

You're literally saying that a drawing from 1795 by a person who had never been to America, based on another drawing from ANOTHER person who had never been to America, is more accurate than actual photos of those exact people from the 1880s.

Between 1795 and the 1880s, where'd all their Blackness go? :francis:

Do those people have tales of where all their afros disappeared to? :mjlol:

The idea that some random-ass British guy who HAD NEVER BEEN to America knew what those people looked like better than actual pictures of those people just 85 years later is some stupid shyt.

Especially when THAT EXACT GUY obviously had no clue was a sloth looked like and including sloth drawings that were just as bullshyt.
 

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15%2B-%2B1


You're going to have a hard time saying every depiction in this thread (and theres more out there) is wrong.


Watch me catch you slacking AGAIN.

Those pictures ain't from Giovanni da Verrazzano - someone else stuck them in there. They from Arnoldus Montanus, A Dutch preacher/teacher 150 years later who wrote books for schoolchildren. He's the same guy who posted that cover shot with a "llama" that looks like it could be the fukking dragon from The Neverending Story, and you're taking half-assed sketches to decorate maps in the book as the overriding authority on Indian facial features and hair. As far as I can tell, those Dutch had never even been to Carolina.

But they HAD just made an expedition to Brazil...which was filled with Africans because the Portuguese had been importing slaves there since 1501. So these pictures from the late 1600s are probably just showing Black people in Brazil, since there were a LOT of Black people in Brazil by then.


And Giovanni, the guy who wrote the text you're trying to quote, wasn't talking about fukking Ethiopians. You're using a mistranslation.


Here is the Ramusio translation of that letter, the earliest version known by far, published in 1556:

"These people go altogether naked except only that they cover their privy parts with certain skins of beasts like unto martens, which they fasten onto a narrow girdle made of grass, very artfully wrought, hanged about with tails of diverse other beasts, which round about their bodies hang dangling down to their knees. Some of them wear garlands of birds' feathers. The people are of a color russet, and not much unlike the Saracens; their hair black, thick, and not very long, which they tie together in a knot behind, and wear it like a tail. They are well-featured in their limbs, of average stature, and commonly somewhat bigger than we; broad breasted, strong arms, their legs and other parts of their bodies well fashioned, and they are disfigured in nothing, saving that they have somewhat broad visages, and yet not all of them; for we saw many of them well favoured, having black and great eyes, with a cheerful and steady look, not strong of body, yet sharp-witted, nimble and great runners, as far as we could learn by experience."


You know who the Saracens are, right? They are ARABS. This pale-ass Italian guy in the 1500s was saying that the Carolina Indians are russet (reddish-brown) with the complexion similar to the ARABS, not Ethiopians.


Your alternative version of the letter comes from an Italian named Carli. It's the English from the Italian from the French - a translation of a translation. He didn't understand the French word for Muslim that was used and mistranslated it.


This whole thing is a goddamn Instagram conspiracy theory. It's nothing but a bunch of pictures put up with no context saying, "Look, see, it proves it!"

Where in this entire thread have you given anyone the slightest evidence that you know anything about the history, genetics, etc. you would need to make these claims?

Why don't you start back at the beginning. Instead of jumping all over the goddamn world with random out-of-context photos from bullshyt sources, why don't you find ONE people group that you think was Black before Black people got here. Pick ONE group and show me all the evidence you have for that group. And we'll see how strong that case is. Not a bunch of bullshyt showing French slaves in the Carribean one minute and then crap paintings of Chileans by someone who had never even been to America the next minute and then a mistranslation of a translation about Carolina Indians the next.


I ain't never seen so much hate for African heritage until I met Hebrew American Hoteps on The Coli. Ya'all will do ANYTHING you can not to claim Mother Africa. :wow:
 
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im_sleep

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Watch me catch you slacking AGAIN.

Those pictures ain't from Giovanni da Verrazzano - someone else stuck them in there. They from Arnoldus Montanus, A Dutch preacher/teacher 150 years later who wrote books for schoolchildren. He's the same guy who posted that cover shot with a "llama" that looks like it could be the fukking dragon from The Neverending Story, and you're taking half-assed sketches to decorate maps in the book as the overriding authority on Indian facial features and hair. As far as I can tell, those Dutch had never even been to Carolina.

But they HAD just made an expedition to Brazil...which was filled with Africans because the Portuguese had been importing slaves there since 1501. So these pictures from the late 1600s are probably just showing Black people in Brazil, since there were a LOT of Black people in Brazil by then.


And Giovanni, the guy who wrote the text you're trying to quote, wasn't talking about fukking Ethiopians. You're using a mistranslation.


Here is the Ramusio translation of that letter, the earliest version known by far, published in 1556:

"These people go altogether naked except only that they cover their privy parts with certain skins of beasts like unto martens, which they fasten onto a narrow girdle made of grass, very artfully wrought, hanged about with tails of diverse other beasts, which round about their bodies hang dangling down to their knees. Some of them wear garlands of birds' feathers. The people are of a color russet, and not much unlike the Saracens; their hair black, thick, and not very long, which they tie together in a knot behind, and wear it like a tail. They are well-featured in their limbs, of average stature, and commonly somewhat bigger than we; broad breasted, strong arms, their legs and other parts of their bodies well fashioned, and they are disfigured in nothing, saving that they have somewhat broad visages, and yet not all of them; for we saw many of them well favoured, having black and great eyes, with a cheerful and steady look, not strong of body, yet sharp-witted, nimble and great runners, as far as we could learn by experience."


You know who the Saracens are, right? They are ARABS. This pale-ass Italian guy in the 1500s was saying that the Carolina Indians are russet (reddish-brown) with the complexion similar to the ARABS, not Ethiopians.


Your alternative version of the letter comes from an Italian named Carli. It's the English from the Italian from the French - a translation of a translation. He didn't understand the French word for Muslim that was used and mistranslated it.


This whole thing is a goddamn Instagram conspiracy theory. It's nothing but a bunch of pictures put up with no context saying, "Look, see, it proves it!"

Where in this entire thread have you given anyone the slightest evidence that you know anything about the history, genetics, etc. you would need to make these claims?

Why don't you start back at the beginning. Instead of jumping all over the goddamn world with random out-of-context photos from bullshyt sources, why don't you find ONE people group that you think was Black before Black people got here. Pick ONE group and show me all the evidence you have for that group. And we'll see how strong that case is. Not a bunch of bullshyt showing French slaves in the Carribean one minute and then crap paintings of Chileans by someone who had never even been to America the next minute and then a mistranslation of a translation about Carolina Indians the next.


I ain't never seen so much hate for African heritage until I met Hebrew American Hoteps on The Coli. Ya'all will do ANYTHING you can not to claim Mother Africa. :wow:
Good shyt

Soon as I saw "Carolina Indians" and 1524 I knew this one was bs too.
:russ:

That area wasn't even referred to as the Carolinas at that time.
:russ:
 
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Everythingg

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No, the argument is, "You're promoting a drawing by people who had NEVER BEEN to America, who drew EVERYTHING from there badly."

Yea every picture in existence (theres more) is by people who never been to America and drew everything badly. Thats your answer for every picture that shows "Indians"looking similar to blacks. Its just a bad representation. Find a picture from the last 100 years, and thats the original "Indians" lol. That logic might work for you, but it aint truthful. And no amount of smilies is gonna cover that up..


You're literally saying that a drawing from 1795 by a person who had never been to America, based on another drawing from ANOTHER person who had never been to America, is more accurate than actual photos of those exact people from the 1880s.

Between 1795 and the 1880s, where'd all their Blackness go? :francis:

Do those people have tales of where all their afros disappeared to? :mjlol:

The idea that some random-ass British guy who HAD NEVER BEEN to America knew what those people looked like better than actual pictures of those people just 85 years later is some stupid shyt.

Especially when THAT EXACT GUY obviously had no clue was a sloth looked like and including sloth drawings that were just as bullshyt.

Theres plenty of pictures breh. Your argument is that they're all wrong and we should go by real pictures from the last 100 or so years. We should go to Egypt and use the arabs as the OG people of Egypt too huh? :mjlol:

What do you mean where did they go? Theres still black people in all these places.They're just calling one group African, and saying another group who migrated there, are the indigenous people of the land. But hey theres more in the chamber. But the problem is you're trying to defend the slave narrative that cacs brought everyone that is so called black over here. Aint no one believing that mess breh..

mulatos2.jpg


Carver_1781.jpg


22.47-Prints-Derde-Boek.jpg

:francis:
 

Everythingg

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But they HAD just made an expedition to Brazil...which was filled with Africans because the Portuguese had been importing slaves there since 1501. So these pictures from the late 1600s are probably just showing Black people in Brazil, since there were a LOT of Black people in Brazil by then.

And this is what its about. You trying to uphold the narrative that cacs are the reason for blacks being on this side of the world. As if cacs were the first ones to sail the seas
:mjlol:


And Giovanni, the guy who wrote the text you're trying to quote, wasn't talking about fukking Ethiopians. You're using a mistranslation.


Here is the Ramusio translation of that letter, the earliest version known by far, published in 1556:

"These people go altogether naked except only that they cover their privy parts with certain skins of beasts like unto martens, which they fasten onto a narrow girdle made of grass, very artfully wrought, hanged about with tails of diverse other beasts, which round about their bodies hang dangling down to their knees. Some of them wear garlands of birds' feathers. The people are of a color russet, and not much unlike the Saracens; their hair black, thick, and not very long, which they tie together in a knot behind, and wear it like a tail. They are well-featured in their limbs, of average stature, and commonly somewhat bigger than we; broad breasted, strong arms, their legs and other parts of their bodies well fashioned, and they are disfigured in nothing, saving that they have somewhat broad visages, and yet not all of them; for we saw many of them well favoured, having black and great eyes, with a cheerful and steady look, not strong of body, yet sharp-witted, nimble and great runners, as far as we could learn by experience."


You know who the Saracens are, right? They are ARABS. This pale-ass Italian guy in the 1500s was saying that the Carolina Indians are russet (reddish-brown) with the complexion similar to the ARABS, not Ethiopians.

Your alternative version of the letter comes from an Italian named Carli. It's the English from the Italian from the French - a translation of a translation. He didn't understand the French word for Muslim that was used and mistranslated it.

What? Saracens was a word used to refer to a variety of people from the ones you call arab today (who arent the original arabs by the way) to so called blacks. Its funny to see you try to cop pleas at everything, but its impossible breh. Theres just too many depictions to say otherwise..

Russet color is a color that matches so called blacks by the way. Google and see for yourself


Where in this entire thread have you given anyone the slightest evidence that you know anything about the history, genetics, etc. you would need to make these claims?

When have you? :mjlol:

All you're doing is calling everything fake or African. These are all African too:


AfricanSlaveTradePoster.jpg


bc35ae04b5d54700482f9507e8b9ed6e--african-history-moorish.jpg

7c692fa960aa02af233583215daf74d1--native-american-west-indies.jpg


26ebe8c7da6d9486693b3ff4aa3e5108--african-history-black-people.jpg




5fd3dfeb178da056f3f26dbef65a9ef9--black-native-americans-atlantis-island.jpg


Free_people_3.jpg

"Negroes" on the slave poster rocking the same thing "natives" were rocking elsewhere. Oh but everyone is either an African or a false representation. Every single photo in this thread is one or the other lol. Its funny to watch you slave narrative holders squirm around when your narrative is proven to be false but sorry breh. Cacs didnt bring EVERY so called black person over here from Africa.



641_500_csupload_37773043.jpg





3B-GR07-Contacts-with-Native-Americans.jpg


b97dc5550bc9e39b1eb526af250811a2.jpg



Oh doesnt count because the trees arent drawn right :mjlol:

Why don't you start back at the beginning. Instead of jumping all over the goddamn world with random out-of-context photos from bullshyt sources, why don't you find ONE people group that you think was Black before Black people got here. Pick ONE group and show me all the evidence you have for that group. And we'll see how strong that case is. Not a bunch of bullshyt showing French slaves in the Carribean one minute and then crap paintings of Chileans by someone who had never even been to America the next minute and then a mistranslation of a translation about Carolina Indians the next.

Start at the beginning huh? :mjpls:

I didnt jump all over the world. I showed depictions from many different time periods of people who resemble blacks of today throughout the Americas. And many times decked out in Indian like gear. Your answer to all of them are either they're African or wrong depictions. So what do you go by? Oh yea, a picture from the last 100 years
:mjlol:

Dont get it twisted. This isnt a conversation or a debate. Im right and you're wrong. Im just toying with you for the fun of it.

I ain't never seen so much hate for African heritage until I met Hebrew American Hoteps on The Coli. Ya'all will do ANYTHING you can not to claim Mother Africa. :wow:

Its more like cacs trying to relegate black history to JUST Africa, when there were blacks in Europe ruling just as their was here in the Americas...:mjpls:
 

Everythingg

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You sure will because your 'argument' is invalidated since they'd be classified as Native American TODAY and NOT Black.


Yep. What a glorious thing that people who look "black" would get to be identified by their own heritage and not force fed "Africa" :blessed:
 

Professor Emeritus

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And this is what its about. You trying to uphold the narrative that cacs are the reason for blacks being on this side of the world. As if cacs were the first ones to sail the seas

Bullshyt. I said in my very first post that I'm warm to some of the evidence that Africans made it to the New World before any Europeans did. But crappy inaccurate pictures from Europeans who had never even been to America and paintings of Maroons from the 1700s is NOT the evidence to look for.

You are still posting a fukking Instagram theory. WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEONE. Don't just garbage-dump a bunch of out-of-context photos onto the thread and say, "Sure, you've debunked every photo you've looked at, but can you debunk all 100 of them?"

It's dumb uneducated shyt, and makes the community look bad. Give me an actual theory about a people, with receipts. Tell me who a specific Black tribe in the Americas was and how you know, and I'll look at how good the evidence and counterevidence is. But this picture-dump is just dumb.



What? Saracens was a word used to refer to a variety of people from the ones you call arab today (who arent the original arabs by the way) to so called blacks. Its funny to see you try to cop pleas at everything, but its impossible breh. Theres just too many depictions to say otherwise..

Russet color is a color that matches so called blacks by the way. Google and see for yourself

So your argument is, "Well, sure, Saracen can mean Arab and russet can mean reddish-brown, but they might mean other things too!"

Look, extraordinary claims require firm evidence. If one interpretation is normal and matches all other evidence, and the other interpretation is a wild conspiracy theory, you gotta go with the interpretation that matches the evidence until we have information otherwise.





When have you? :mjlol:

Maybe the dozen times I've already corrected you and provided background information on the exact sources of the images that proved your claims wrong? :francis:



Start at the beginning huh? :mjpls:

I didnt jump all over the world. I showed depictions from many different time periods of people who resemble blacks of today throughout the Americas. And many times decked out in Indian like gear. Your answer to all of them are either they're African or wrong depictions. So what do you go by? Oh yea, a picture from the last 100 years

I love how you think a painting from 1795 by a guy who had never even BEEN to South America is more accurate than an actual photo of the people from 1880.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how their Blackness just got "wiped away" in just 85 years. Or why NO ONE else who ever visited that tribe said they had Black skin and afros except that one set of paintings by a dude who had never even been there (and who drew sloths like Asian bears).


You jumped all the way from the Carolinas to Jamaica to the bottom tip of Chile, without providing any background information at all. And nearly everything you did claim was wrong.

So stop it with the low-IQ Instagram argument. Stop the painting-dumps. Pick ONE tribe from somewhere and give me your evidence that that tribe was Black before any Europeans got here. Start showing that you are the least bit educated and know how to use your brain.

:sas1::sas2:
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Everythingg said:
Yep. What a glorious thing that people who look "black" would get to be identified by their own heritage

They 'look Black' to you and many 16th Century Europeans who were ignorant racists based on an inaccurate painting of Native Americans.

And you've still misidentified their heritage, doing to them what 'White' people did to us.

Let that FACT sink in for a bit.

:sas2:
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Everythingg said:
And this is what its about. You trying to uphold the narrative that cacs are the reason for blacks being on this side of the world. As if cacs were the first ones to sail the seas

There were no Black people here prior to the slave trade.

Africans did NOT sail or in any other way travel to the Americas.

There is absolutely NO evidence of a Black/African presence in ANY of the Americas.

Your counter-argument is: 1. Inaccurate COPIES of paintings of people by artists who'd never even laid eyes on the subjects they drew.

....and....

2. stating; 'Don't believe ANYTHING CACS tell/show you.....except THIS!!!!!

:laff::laff::laff::laff:
 
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Professor Emeritus

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There were no Black people here prior to the slave trade.

Africans did NOT sail or in any other way travel to the Americas.

There is absolutely NO evidence of a Black/African presence in ANY of the Americas.

Your counter-argument is: 1. Inaccurate COPIES of paintings of people by artists who'd never even laid eyes on the subjects they drew.

....and....

2. stating; 'Don't believe ANYTHING CACS tell/show you.....except THIS!!!!!

:laff::laff::laff::laff:


While his argument is terrible, I do want to believe that Africans might have sailed across. There's two pieces of actual evidence for that:

#1: Accounts of the expedition of King Abubakari II of Mali in 1311. There were stories of two massive expeditions made to find the limits of the Atlantic Ocean. If they did make it to the Americas, they didn't make it back. King John of Portugal told Columbus about those stories as part of the impetus for exploring.

#2: Stories told to Columbus when he arrived in America. People there said they had been visited by a black-skinned people from the southeast who traded in spears that had some plating of precious metals on them.


Both of those accounts are sketchy, but there's a possibility there. Yet it is a possibility of VISITS, not an entire Black race that developed in America. There just ain't any real evidence that I've seen yet that any of the Native peoples were African or Black.
 

Everythingg

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Bullshyt. I said in my very first post that I'm warm to some of the evidence that Africans made it to the New World before any Europeans did. But crappy inaccurate pictures from Europeans who had never even been to America and paintings of Maroons from the 1700s is NOT the evidence to look for.

You are still posting a fukking Instagram theory. WRITE SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEONE. Don't just garbage-dump a bunch of out-of-context photos onto the thread and say, "Sure, you've debunked every photo you've looked at, but can you debunk all 100 of them?"

It's dumb uneducated shyt, and makes the community look bad. Give me an actual theory about a people, with receipts. Tell me who a specific Black tribe in the Americas was and how you know, and I'll look at how good the evidence and counterevidence is. But this picture-dump is just dumb.



So your argument is, "Well, sure, Saracen can mean Arab and russet can mean reddish-brown, but they might mean other things too!"

Look, extraordinary claims require firm evidence. If one interpretation is normal and matches all other evidence, and the other interpretation is a wild conspiracy theory, you gotta go with the interpretation that matches the evidence until we have information otherwise.







Maybe the dozen times I've already corrected you and provided background information on the exact sources of the images that proved your claims wrong? :francis:





I love how you think a painting from 1795 by a guy who had never even BEEN to South America is more accurate than an actual photo of the people from 1880.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how their Blackness just got "wiped away" in just 85 years. Or why NO ONE else who ever visited that tribe said they had Black skin and afros except that one set of paintings by a dude who had never even been there (and who drew sloths like Asian bears).


You jumped all the way from the Carolinas to Jamaica to the bottom tip of Chile, without providing any background information at all. And nearly everything you did claim was wrong.

So stop it with the low-IQ Instagram argument. Stop the painting-dumps. Pick ONE tribe from somewhere and give me your evidence that that tribe was Black before any Europeans got here. Start showing that you are the least bit educated and know how to use your brain.

:sas1::sas2:


full


Talking about makes the community look bad :mjlol:

I dont have to explain "where the black went" because theres black people in every area displayed in the pictures. Theres still blacks in Peru, Brazil, Chile, Jamaica of course, America etc... I dont have to explain WHERE they went, you and cacs just lazily call them African and keep it moving. Your argument against the pictures is pointing out what YOU call lackluster pictures and then casting any and every depiction as trash based on that. Thats not a solid argument. Thats an excuse. Which is exactly all you have to offer. Excuses.

So yea the totality of the depictions is way more solid, then you simply pointing to a picture from 100 years ago and saying they're the original people. Just as it wouldnt be solid to ignore how the ancient Egyptians depicted themselves for who is there now or in the last 100 years. But thats what you're doing and might even be what you believe concerning the Egyptians. All depictions from ancient times are wrong, but a picture from the last 100 years is what we are to go by when it comes to who the ancient people were lol. Thats an excuse not an argument. And false narrative holders have all the excuses in the world so that they can hold onto their narrative. Which is why having actual convos with them are fruitless. They'll just make up an excuse for everything they dont want to believe. Just as you have. Sorry, but Im going to place more credence on how the ancient people depicted them, than anything else.

And Saracen refers to more than just modern day arabs just as the color "russet" is associated with "black" people more so than any other people. Facts only breh. When used by the Greeks it referred to an area of BLACK people. Because again, the OG Arabs were BLACK not the modern mixed caucasoid you see today. But you'd still try to argue against it too to hold up that slave narrative which is why I said this isnt a debate or convo. Its just me toying around with you to see you squirm around the truth YOU dont want to believe. You're wrong and Im right and those are the facts breh. Either way, Thanks for the entertainment

:salute:
 

Everythingg

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There were no Black people here prior to the slave trade.

:mjpls:
AfricanSlaveTradePoster.jpg
bc35ae04b5d54700482f9507e8b9ed6e--african-history-moorish.jpg

7c692fa960aa02af233583215daf74d1--native-american-west-indies.jpg


26ebe8c7da6d9486693b3ff4aa3e5108--african-history-black-people.jpg




5fd3dfeb178da056f3f26dbef65a9ef9--black-native-americans-atlantis-island.jpg


Free_people_3.jpg
Carlos_Quinto_1.jpg
Sure thing bud, everyone black is "African" :mjlol:

Africans did NOT sail or in any other way travel to the Americas.

There is absolutely NO evidence of a Black/African presence in ANY of the Americas.

Your counter-argument is: 1. Inaccurate COPIES of paintings of people by artists who'd never even laid eyes on the subjects they drew.

....and....

2. stating; 'Don't believe ANYTHING CACS tell/show you.....except THIS!!!!!

:laff::laff::laff::laff:

1. Yea all the paintings in this thread are inaccurate. Where are the "accurate" ones?

2. Never an argument I made.

e6651bcc92cdfff49e86ced056d35c3d--dreadlocks-bog.jpg


38695186-Mummy-of-the-Chauchilla-culture-with-dreadlocks-near-Nazca-Peru-Stock-Photo.jpg


Dread lock mummies in Peru. But that will be cast aside too I know. Its just fun toying with you false slave narrative holders
 
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Everythingg

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They 'look Black' to you and many 16th Century Europeans​


Yep. And I rather base my opinion on people who were there, then, well you. Because all I see is YOU saying they werent as the pictures identified. Yet I see nothing else from that time period from you that is legitimate

And you've still misidentified their heritage,
:sas2:

Me comparing their appearance isnt "misidentifying their heritage". Nice try though....
 

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Talking about makes the community look bad


So he can't do it. I've challenged him three times and he can't do it. :yeshrug:

He can't point to ONE Black tribe in America that he's willing to provide all the receipts for. :francis:

Instead, all he can post is a bunch of pics from a fukking Instagram argument, span the thread with pics and lie about where they came from and what's in them. :mjlol:

I worry for this generation. Social media made them dumb as fukk. :snoop:




Yep. And I rather base my opinion on people who were there, then, well you. Because all I see is YOU saying they werent as the pictures identified. Yet I see nothing else from that time period from you that is legitimate

Complete bullshyt. Literally every picture of yours that I've checked was either made by a European who had never even been there, or was identified by the European who made it as a picture of the descendants of AFRICANS who had been BROUGHT there.

And I've already pointed out that the Natives themselves say you're full of shyt.

If you based your opinion on people who were there, you never would have bought into this bullshyt theory. You based your opinion on an Instagram account.
 
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