A Wiseman Told Me Never Argue With Fools: Official 2021 Warriors Season Thread

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CSquare43

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If anyone has a subscription to The Athletic free to post some quotes from the article




Have you been watching the Western Conference finals? The Lakers moved to within a win of the conference crown on Thursday night, in part, because a rejuvenated Dwight Howard bullied his way to six offensive rebounds, leading to a bulk of their 25-4 advantage in second-chance points. As a team, they are rebounding back an absurd 30.5 percent of their misses in these playoffs.

Another reason: The Lakers’ starting power forward, Anthony Davis, who is actually more of a center — probably the NBA’s best center — scored 34 points on 15 shots. He’s a 30-and-10 machine in these playoffs. He’s 27. He’s not stepping aside next season. Neither are the win-now, tall-ball Lakers, who start two centers and have a 6-foot-9 point guard.

The Nuggets are one loss from elimination, but within these playoffs, they’ve rearranged their reputation. Jamal Murray, 23, and Nikola Jokic, 25, are no longer just a fun regular-season story. They’ve become a postseason duo to be respected. Jokic, in particular, is no longer a center you can just enter a series expecting to exploit with small-ball, wing-heavy lineups.

You know who found that out? The Clippers. Jokic pulverized Montrezl Harrell in that second-round upset. The Nuggets were a +50 in the 72 minutes that Jokic and Harrell shared the court together. That’s why the Clippers are in offseason crisis mode and Denver’s in the conference finals.

The Warriors very much expect to re-enter the contending conversation with the Clippers, Lakers and Nuggets next season. To do so, though, there remains some needed offseason roster tweaking and it’s becoming increasingly clear that shoring up the center spot should be a large priority. Maybe the top one.

Marquese Chriss and Kevon Looney are their only two centers currently under contract. If you didn’t pay attention to the final month of that forgettable 15-50 Warriors season, you might’ve missed Chriss’ emergence. In nine post All-Star break games, he averaged 13 points and nine rebounds, sprinkling in some rim protection.

He’s no longer a fringe roster guy. Chriss has gained traction and found a niche within the Warriors’ system as a lob threat, energy defender and skilled dribble hand-off hub. There’s a place for him within a center-by-committee approach. But a nightly 25-minute starter? Sounds overly ambitious.

Chriss is 6-9. He entered the NBA as a wing. Phoenix let him shoot 224 3-point attempts as a rookie. He was miscast on the perimeter. In the modern NBA, he’s strictly a center. But he’s a shorter one. Chriss, this past season, once discussed the challenges he and the other Warriors’ smaller centers had keeping 7-footers like Steven Adams off of the glass. The Warriors finished with the season’s fourth-worst rebounding rate (48.1). It’s a flaw.

Looney would theoretically help soon. He’s not a pogo-stick leaper — the furthest thing from it — but he’s technically sound, diligent in his box-outs and has go-go gadget arms. If healthy, he’s an underrated help on the glass and in so many other areas that help you win games.

But that’s quite the “if.” In the last 15 months, Looney has dealt with fractured cartilage in his collarbone, several hamstring strains, the revelation that he deals with a neuropathic condition (leading to those muscle strains) and a nagging injury to his abdomen that forced core surgery this past summer.

“I couldn’t really jump (last season),” Looney said on a conference call this week. “I couldn’t really slide. Biggest part for me is to stop being scared. I played last season scared to move.”

Looney has been fully cleared for a month. He’s currently taking part in the Warriors’ minicamp. He said that this is the best he’s felt physically since his third season, which was when he emerged into steady rotation piece for a title team. So we know he’s capable.

But should that be relied upon? No. Whatever the Warriors get from Looney should be considered a bonus. Next season is too vital, this remaining title window too narrow, to blindly assume Looney’s health and body will hold up over the marathon that is an NBA season.

But even if he did, the Warriors’ center rotation is missing some needed components. The ground-bound Looney is also only 6-9. The tallest player on their roster is 6-10 Alen Smailagić, a 20-year-old project whom Zion Williamson tossed around like a throw pillow in one of Smailagić’s lone appearances his rookie season.

Draymond Green remains the Warriors’ most reliable answer at center in crunch time. That’s still their identity and, without Kevin Durant or Andre Iguodala around any more, that could make them pretty Rockets-esque next season, relying on a batch of shorter guards and combo wings around a 6-5 defensive bully as their primary center.

But one of Houston’s pitfalls was its inability to pivot back to a center when needed. Clint Capela could’ve helped in the Lakers series as another option against Davis. He would’ve helped in a theoretical matchup against the Nuggets. And those are the matchups the Warriors need to plan for next season — the Lakers, Nuggets and Clippers (who are expected to give Ivica Zubac a larger role next season), not the Rockets.

The best (non-Draymond) Jokic defender currently in the organization is probably Zaza Pachulia. But he’s retired and in the front office. The Warriors need to spend this offseason, at minimum, finding a Pachulia/Andrew Bogut/David West type.

Joel Embiid would be the transactional dream, if Philadelphia does hire Mike D’Antoni, shifts its style and perhaps makes Embiid available in trade talks. But put that unlikely idea to the side and let’s look at the more realistic paths to center improvement through the draft and free agency.

I’ve advocated for the selection of Memphis’ James Wiseman with the second pick in the upcoming draft. At 19, he’s already 7-1 and 251 pounds with a 7-6 wingspan and a 9-6 standing reach. He’d be an immediate jolt of size, rebounding and rim protection this roster is lacking. The Warriors were 20th in blocks this past season after years in the top five. Durant is gone.

Would a Wiseman selection immediately add what’s needed to advance past the Lakers and Nuggets? Seems unrealistic. It’s hard to imagine him having a defensive impact against a Davis or Jokic before he turns the legal drinking age. But Tyler Herro, selected 13th by the Heat, is currently proving that it isn’t impossible for a rookie to make an immediate playoff stamp. He cooked Marcus Smart and the Celtics defense for 37 points the other night.

But Wiseman or not, a veteran center is needed. Marc Gasol and Serge Ibaka have been floated as the ideal targets. And they would be, but Toronto maintains both players’ Bird rights. The Raptors could give either one or both $10 million a year or more to return on a short-term deal. The Warriors can only offer the taxpayer mid-level exception, likely landing in the $6 million range.

Price is an issue for all of the better veteran options. Aron Baynes makes sense, but should command more. Same with Tristan Thompson. That’s when you start to trickle into the Hassan Whiteside/Mason Plumlee/Ian Mahinmi/Meyers Leonard realm.

But how about this name? Dwight Howard. He’s finally flushed out the demand for post-ups and embraced his role as a high-energy big who rebounds, irritates opposing bigs and crushes lobs. Do I think he could have an effect against a Jokic in a playoff series? Yes. It’s happening as we speak.

The Lakers will probably attempt to retain him, but it could cost. Howard was on the minimum this season and other contenders, seeing what type of role acceptance and impact he’s having on the biggest stage, would likely bump his market value into at least the mini mid-level range. Could the Warriors lure him away with an offer to be the unquestioned starter?

I don’t know. I’m not even sure they’d entertain it. He’s a brute force center, not a super-skilled one. Steve Kerr’s system is more tailored to bigs who can pass and shoot from the high post. But, whichever direction they go, the playoffs are providing clarity that a center upgrade is needed.

“The position, in some circles, has been sort of denigrated in terms of its importance,” Kerr said on Friday. “I would argue that you’re always going to have to have a good center to protect the rim, block shots and grab rebounds. Then if you’re lucky to have a great passing center like Jokic or we did with Andrew Bogut and Zaza, David West — guys who can play off the high post and pick you apart.

“I think the teams that are having success in the playoffs all seem to have that threat from the top of the circle, whether it’s Bam Adebayo. Toronto had it with Marc Gasol. Boston, you know, (Daniel) Theis has played well. The Lakers, they’re probably the biggest team in the league. It’s an interesting point you bring up. Small ball has taken over and yet you still have to have big guys to win.”

News of the day: Klay Thompson has cleared quarantine and entered the Warriors’ practice bubble. Friday was his first full-contact group workout since he tore his ACL back in June of 2019.

“I didn’t expect him to be in top form and he was not,” Kerr said. “But he moved well and it was a great first step. Klay got a lot of good work in and was able to gauge where he is right now.”

The Warriors haven’t had a 5-on-5 scrimmage yet. They plan to advance to that in the next few days. If Thompson’s knee and body respond well, he should be able to participate in the scrimmaging.

(Photo: Daniel Shirey / Getty Images)
 

G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman

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Have you been watching the Western Conference finals? The Lakers moved to within a win of the conference crown on Thursday night, in part, because a rejuvenated Dwight Howard bullied his way to six offensive rebounds, leading to a bulk of their 25-4 advantage in second-chance points. As a team, they are rebounding back an absurd 30.5 percent of their misses in these playoffs.

Another reason: The Lakers’ starting power forward, Anthony Davis, who is actually more of a center — probably the NBA’s best center — scored 34 points on 15 shots. He’s a 30-and-10 machine in these playoffs. He’s 27. He’s not stepping aside next season. Neither are the win-now, tall-ball Lakers, who start two centers and have a 6-foot-9 point guard.

The Nuggets are one loss from elimination, but within these playoffs, they’ve rearranged their reputation. Jamal Murray, 23, and Nikola Jokic, 25, are no longer just a fun regular-season story. They’ve become a postseason duo to be respected. Jokic, in particular, is no longer a center you can just enter a series expecting to exploit with small-ball, wing-heavy lineups.

You know who found that out? The Clippers. Jokic pulverized Montrezl Harrell in that second-round upset. The Nuggets were a +50 in the 72 minutes that Jokic and Harrell shared the court together. That’s why the Clippers are in offseason crisis mode and Denver’s in the conference finals.

The Warriors very much expect to re-enter the contending conversation with the Clippers, Lakers and Nuggets next season. To do so, though, there remains some needed offseason roster tweaking and it’s becoming increasingly clear that shoring up the center spot should be a large priority. Maybe the top one.

Marquese Chriss and Kevon Looney are their only two centers currently under contract. If you didn’t pay attention to the final month of that forgettable 15-50 Warriors season, you might’ve missed Chriss’ emergence. In nine post All-Star break games, he averaged 13 points and nine rebounds, sprinkling in some rim protection.

He’s no longer a fringe roster guy. Chriss has gained traction and found a niche within the Warriors’ system as a lob threat, energy defender and skilled dribble hand-off hub. There’s a place for him within a center-by-committee approach. But a nightly 25-minute starter? Sounds overly ambitious.

Chriss is 6-9. He entered the NBA as a wing. Phoenix let him shoot 224 3-point attempts as a rookie. He was miscast on the perimeter. In the modern NBA, he’s strictly a center. But he’s a shorter one. Chriss, this past season, once discussed the challenges he and the other Warriors’ smaller centers had keeping 7-footers like Steven Adams off of the glass. The Warriors finished with the season’s fourth-worst rebounding rate (48.1). It’s a flaw.

Looney would theoretically help soon. He’s not a pogo-stick leaper — the furthest thing from it — but he’s technically sound, diligent in his box-outs and has go-go gadget arms. If healthy, he’s an underrated help on the glass and in so many other areas that help you win games.

But that’s quite the “if.” In the last 15 months, Looney has dealt with fractured cartilage in his collarbone, several hamstring strains, the revelation that he deals with a neuropathic condition (leading to those muscle strains) and a nagging injury to his abdomen that forced core surgery this past summer.

“I couldn’t really jump (last season),” Looney said on a conference call this week. “I couldn’t really slide. Biggest part for me is to stop being scared. I played last season scared to move.”

Looney has been fully cleared for a month. He’s currently taking part in the Warriors’ minicamp. He said that this is the best he’s felt physically since his third season, which was when he emerged into steady rotation piece for a title team. So we know he’s capable.

But should that be relied upon? No. Whatever the Warriors get from Looney should be considered a bonus. Next season is too vital, this remaining title window too narrow, to blindly assume Looney’s health and body will hold up over the marathon that is an NBA season.

But even if he did, the Warriors’ center rotation is missing some needed components. The ground-bound Looney is also only 6-9. The tallest player on their roster is 6-10 Alen Smailagić, a 20-year-old project whom Zion Williamson tossed around like a throw pillow in one of Smailagić’s lone appearances his rookie season.

Draymond Green remains the Warriors’ most reliable answer at center in crunch time. That’s still their identity and, without Kevin Durant or Andre Iguodala around any more, that could make them pretty Rockets-esque next season, relying on a batch of shorter guards and combo wings around a 6-5 defensive bully as their primary center.

But one of Houston’s pitfalls was its inability to pivot back to a center when needed. Clint Capela could’ve helped in the Lakers series as another option against Davis. He would’ve helped in a theoretical matchup against the Nuggets. And those are the matchups the Warriors need to plan for next season — the Lakers, Nuggets and Clippers (who are expected to give Ivica Zubac a larger role next season), not the Rockets.

The best (non-Draymond) Jokic defender currently in the organization is probably Zaza Pachulia. But he’s retired and in the front office. The Warriors need to spend this offseason, at minimum, finding a Pachulia/Andrew Bogut/David West type.

Joel Embiid would be the transactional dream, if Philadelphia does hire Mike D’Antoni, shifts its style and perhaps makes Embiid available in trade talks. But put that unlikely idea to the side and let’s look at the more realistic paths to center improvement through the draft and free agency.

I’ve advocated for the selection of Memphis’ James Wiseman with the second pick in the upcoming draft. At 19, he’s already 7-1 and 251 pounds with a 7-6 wingspan and a 9-6 standing reach. He’d be an immediate jolt of size, rebounding and rim protection this roster is lacking. The Warriors were 20th in blocks this past season after years in the top five. Durant is gone.

Would a Wiseman selection immediately add what’s needed to advance past the Lakers and Nuggets? Seems unrealistic. It’s hard to imagine him having a defensive impact against a Davis or Jokic before he turns the legal drinking age. But Tyler Herro, selected 13th by the Heat, is currently proving that it isn’t impossible for a rookie to make an immediate playoff stamp. He cooked Marcus Smart and the Celtics defense for 37 points the other night.

But Wiseman or not, a veteran center is needed. Marc Gasol and Serge Ibaka have been floated as the ideal targets. And they would be, but Toronto maintains both players’ Bird rights. The Raptors could give either one or both $10 million a year or more to return on a short-term deal. The Warriors can only offer the taxpayer mid-level exception, likely landing in the $6 million range.

Price is an issue for all of the better veteran options. Aron Baynes makes sense, but should command more. Same with Tristan Thompson. That’s when you start to trickle into the Hassan Whiteside/Mason Plumlee/Ian Mahinmi/Meyers Leonard realm.

But how about this name? Dwight Howard. He’s finally flushed out the demand for post-ups and embraced his role as a high-energy big who rebounds, irritates opposing bigs and crushes lobs. Do I think he could have an effect against a Jokic in a playoff series? Yes. It’s happening as we speak.

The Lakers will probably attempt to retain him, but it could cost. Howard was on the minimum this season and other contenders, seeing what type of role acceptance and impact he’s having on the biggest stage, would likely bump his market value into at least the mini mid-level range. Could the Warriors lure him away with an offer to be the unquestioned starter?

I don’t know. I’m not even sure they’d entertain it. He’s a brute force center, not a super-skilled one. Steve Kerr’s system is more tailored to bigs who can pass and shoot from the high post. But, whichever direction they go, the playoffs are providing clarity that a center upgrade is needed.

“The position, in some circles, has been sort of denigrated in terms of its importance,” Kerr said on Friday. “I would argue that you’re always going to have to have a good center to protect the rim, block shots and grab rebounds. Then if you’re lucky to have a great passing center like Jokic or we did with Andrew Bogut and Zaza, David West — guys who can play off the high post and pick you apart.

“I think the teams that are having success in the playoffs all seem to have that threat from the top of the circle, whether it’s Bam Adebayo. Toronto had it with Marc Gasol. Boston, you know, (Daniel) Theis has played well. The Lakers, they’re probably the biggest team in the league. It’s an interesting point you bring up. Small ball has taken over and yet you still have to have big guys to win.”

News of the day: Klay Thompson has cleared quarantine and entered the Warriors’ practice bubble. Friday was his first full-contact group workout since he tore his ACL back in June of 2019.

“I didn’t expect him to be in top form and he was not,” Kerr said. “But he moved well and it was a great first step. Klay got a lot of good work in and was able to gauge where he is right now.”

The Warriors haven’t had a 5-on-5 scrimmage yet. They plan to advance to that in the next few days. If Thompson’s knee and body respond well, he should be able to participate in the scrimmaging.

(Photo: Daniel Shirey / Getty Images)
I'm glad Kerr acknowledges that a center is needed.
 

Mr. Brown

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So I like taking different teams in 2k and doing the off-season and playing GM. I took Wiseman in the draft and traded Wiggins, Chriss and Smailagic for Seth and Hardaway. Got the Curry bros together and the son of a TMC member
:myman:
 

khross415

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He talks too much, his contract sucks, he's constantly out of shape, he got cooked by Siakam who looked like a g-leaguer vs Jaylen Brown. I'd rather sell while he still has any value than the league finding out how washed he is and we're stuck with him.

:mjlol: if we know Draymond is trash , you think GM's dont?
 

BlaqkSpliffin

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Josh Richardson and Frank Ntilikina with the TPE
James Wiseman with the 2nd pick
GRIII for the vet mini
Wes Matthews for the MLE

Release Smiley's bum ass and put him in the G-League

Use his spot on Toscano-Anderson

Edit:

Alternative:

Pick swap for Kelly Oubre
Vassell or Toppin with the 10th pick
MCW for the vet mini
Myers Leonard or Dwight for the MLE
GRIII for the vet mini
 
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BlaqkSpliffin

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I really feel like we have a good chance to win it all next year brehs:wow:

Steph will have his best chance to win that 3rd MVP too

I mean the Clippers are a mess

Lakers gonna be depending on a 36 yr old LeBron and whatever their bench looks like next year

Nuggets gonna be food defensively for a minute

Rockets:mjlol:

And the East has nothing but contenders and no kings

This is the most important offseason in a long time. I'm praying Bob don't fukk this up:mjcry:
 
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